I already answered it. I said everything is created by the Father through His Son Jesus.
It will not change no matter how many times you ask the same thing over and over.
Did God become flesh?
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I already answered it. I said everything is created by the Father through His Son Jesus.
It will not change no matter how many times you ask the same thing over and over.
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So you think that His Son is a created being even though the scripture states that He created ALL THINGS?
No, He is the creator of ALL THINGS and that means that He is God.
Rosenritter
New member
It doesn't answer the question, and your answer seems intentionally vague. Let's not be vague; the purpose of communication is to communicate thoughts and concepts, not to obscure them.
1. Is that a "no" God did not literally create the heaven and the earth?
2. Is that a "yes" God asked another being to create the light?
3. Is that a "yes" that another being created the light?
opcorn:
God created Jesus before He gave Jesus privilege to create the rest of the universe.
You see I have all those in verses. So you have to be patient to read I provide.
more to come.
You are jalousie of my ability to understand God and Jesus' identity without relying on man-made doctrines.
Some more:
2)Mark 13:32 (New International Version)
32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
John 3
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:19 (New International Version)
19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
John 8:28-29 (New International Version)
28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."
John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 17
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
1 John 5:9 (King James Version)
9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
Acts 4:30 (New International Version)
30Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, "I a returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.""
Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.
2)Mark 13:32 (New International Version)
32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
John 3
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:19 (New International Version)
19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
John 8:28-29 (New International Version)
28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."
John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 17
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
1 John 5:9 (King James Version)
9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
Acts 4:30 (New International Version)
30Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, "I a returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.""
Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Phhilippians 2:…6Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross.…
Oooops….
drbrumley
Well-known member
Jesus is the image of the invisible God.
i) The visible Jesus makes the invisible God known.
ii) We can never fully know God the Father apart from God the Son.
iii) Colossians 2:9
iv) Matthew 11:27
Jesus is the first-born, above all creation.
i) The word “first-born” in Colossians 1:15 does not imply a beginning; Jesus never had a beginning. There was never a time when Jesus was not. Instead, the word speaks of honor and privilege.
ii) John 8:58
iii) Psalm 89:27
iv) Colossians 1:17
i) The visible Jesus makes the invisible God known.
ii) We can never fully know God the Father apart from God the Son.
iii) Colossians 2:9
iv) Matthew 11:27
Jesus is the first-born, above all creation.
i) The word “first-born” in Colossians 1:15 does not imply a beginning; Jesus never had a beginning. There was never a time when Jesus was not. Instead, the word speaks of honor and privilege.
ii) John 8:58
iii) Psalm 89:27
iv) Colossians 1:17
Rosenritter
New member
OK, at least that's something I can address. To be clear, God created Jesus, then gave him the privilege of creation, and then Jesus created every thing else from then on out? (but wouldn't that be two different Creators?)
drbrumley
Well-known member
LOL< I Love it...That's good.
Rosenritter
New member
You need to tell me why you think any particular passage is relevant. I have no objection to any portion of the KJV. .
Rosenritter
New member
I can take a pretty good guess where you are going with the first passage, but already you have a head start here. That's an Open Theist membership flag on your profile, right? (There's no assumption that the future is already determined and can be remotely viewed?)
The Son does not know when he will return because that date has not been set at a specific time, and it is not determined by the Son of God (God in the flesh) but rather the exact time of when he will again manifest as the Son of God has yet to be determined. Before he manifests from heaven, not after he has already returned in bodily form (the Son of God.)
The "Son of God" is the manifestation of God in bodily form. That's all it means. You might look to the book of Hebrews where more explanation is given by what is meant by "Son of God" is given.
Hebrews 1:6-8 KJV
(6) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
(7) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
(8) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 7:3 KJV
(3) Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
The Son of God is called God, the Son of God is worshiped by the angels, and the Son of God is without beginning or end of days.
... but I have no idea where you are going with the next one at John 3:36. So rather than pile through and try to create arguments for you, again I ask, would you please say what you believe a passage shows when you bring it for consideration?
Rosenritter
New member
The NIV makes it sound almost the opposite meaning.
Isaiah 40:25 KJV
(25) To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
Philippians 2:6 KJV
(6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
John 10:33 KJV
(33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
But resolution won't be reached by scripture dumps, there needs to be communication to identify the underlying assumptions on each side and to subject those assumptions to fair analysis.
Remember Jesus says clearly He cannot do anything on His own? I just showed you plenty of that statements.
You guys are dismissing this simple statement of Jesus' own word.
That is the problem of you guys, you dismiss too many of Jesus' own word.
that's what happens when you don't know the true identities of God and Jesus.
Right Divider
Body part
Nope... you're wrong about the NATURE of the LORD Jesus Christ and are therefore an unbeliever.
P.S. Your faked misspelling doesn't fool anyone meshak #2
Rosenritter
New member
That is also what Jesus would say to show that his power was the same as God's power, if Jesus was God in the flesh. Is God in the flesh going to say that he does things apart from the power of God in heaven?
Had Jesus had said that he did do things on his own that would indicate that Jesus was someone different than God. But he didn't say that, did he? So what are we told in clear language that might dispel any confusion?
John 1:1-3 KJV
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Is there a reason why you are unable to accept this statement? You said that God created Jesus? But we are told here that he did not create Jesus, because that would make Jesus a created thing. The gospel tells us that Jesus created everything that was created.
If you filter the interpretation of scripture through a bad assumption (such as Jesus being a created being) you are going to get flawed interpretations that keep running aground on other scriptures. Such as "The Word was God" and "all things were made by him: and without him was not any thing made that was made." Maybe it would be worthwhile to reconsider the contradictory assumption?
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