So? Where does He say that He is not good?
Denial of the deity of Jesus
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
So? Where does He say that He is not good?
genuineoriginal
New member
John 8:42 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. |
He makes it clear that He is not the Father but where does He say that He is not God?
genuineoriginal
New member
John 8:42 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. |
Jesus said "for I proceeded forth and came from God"
Jesus said "neither came I of myself, but he sent me"
Somehow you seem to think Jesus did not say those things, but instead said something different.
How about you try posting every verse where Jesus uses the word God to refer to Himself (Son of God does not count for this, obviously, since Son is the word that refers to Jesus).
Then post every verse where Jesus uses the word God to refer to someone other than Himself (Son of God would count for this one, since God refers to someone else).
Then compare the number of verses in each case and see which one is higher.
Apple7
New member
How about you just disprove these two?
John 1:14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Word Made Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Deity of Jesus Christ
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The answer is not quantity but quality.
genuineoriginal
New member
What do you want me to disprove?
Do you want me to prove that the NASB added the words "The Deity of Jesus Christ"?
That is easy to prove, see the words are missing from other translations:
John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. |
Maybe you want me to disprove that the translation of λόγος logos?
Matthew 5:32 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause (λόγος logos) of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. |
Same Greek word used here.
1 Peter 3:15 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason (λόγος logos) of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: |
Same Greek word used here.
This means that your verses could have the following translations:
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the cause (λόγος logos), and the cause (λόγος logos) was with God, and the cause (λόγος logos) was God.
John 1:14
14 And the cause (λόγος logos) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the reason (λόγος logos), and the reason (λόγος logos) was with God, and the reason (λόγος logos) was God.
John 1:14
14 And the reason (λόγος logos) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Once again, what is it that you would like disproven?
1 John 1:1-2New American Standard Bible (NASB)
1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life—
2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
Oh, the NASB is correct in their heading.
genuineoriginal
New member
Were they?
It seems to me that adding to the original words that were written under inspiration of the Holy Spirit is not acceptable to God.
Revelation 22:18 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: |
It's the same as saying the Gospel according to John or the Gospel according to Saint John. Is that an addition to scripture? Besides take another bible and the TEXT is the same so what's your problem. I do not think anyone except you thinks it an addition to scripture. :duh:
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
One 'God', many faces..........
One 'God', many faces..........
Well, using Trinitarian metaphysics,....it all comes back to Oneness anyways, since they must retain the unity of the divine essence as indivisible in nature, but as different personalities, so its just a manifold oneness stretched out as a divine company, a similar concept used in various pagan religions, greek metaphysics and other esoterics.
For a pure spiritualist holding to a monistic or monotheistic worldview,....since 'God' is always One, no matter how you slice and dice it, a Unitarian, Bi-Unitarian, Trinitarian or even some other pan-entheistic variety is just as good :idunno:
You come back to the one universal absolute unity of Being, that primal Deity at the heart of all things, the very Soul of the cosmos, the all-pervading Spirit, Infinite Intelligence ruling and guiding all creation. Wonderful eh? God is One. God is All. There is nothing outside of God. - the fabric of existence is woven with-in this primordial unity of Spirit, no matter how many 'personifications' of 'God' you assume or choose to relate to.
You only have one consciousness reflecting itself in so many mirrors.
One 'God', many faces..........
Well, using Trinitarian metaphysics,....it all comes back to Oneness anyways, since they must retain the unity of the divine essence as indivisible in nature, but as different personalities, so its just a manifold oneness stretched out as a divine company, a similar concept used in various pagan religions, greek metaphysics and other esoterics.
For a pure spiritualist holding to a monistic or monotheistic worldview,....since 'God' is always One, no matter how you slice and dice it, a Unitarian, Bi-Unitarian, Trinitarian or even some other pan-entheistic variety is just as good :idunno:
You come back to the one universal absolute unity of Being, that primal Deity at the heart of all things, the very Soul of the cosmos, the all-pervading Spirit, Infinite Intelligence ruling and guiding all creation. Wonderful eh? God is One. God is All. There is nothing outside of God. - the fabric of existence is woven with-in this primordial unity of Spirit, no matter how many 'personifications' of 'God' you assume or choose to relate to.
You only have one consciousness reflecting itself in so many mirrors.
genuineoriginal
New member
It is the translators imposing their interpretation on the text in order to force the reader into agreeing with their interpretation.
If you see nothing with adding that header, then you should not have a problem with the following header:
Matthew 16:19 Jesus makes Peter the first Pope 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. |
You may not have a problem with that header, but I reject it as being unscriptural.
You do not think it is an addition to scripture since you have been taught to ignore the actual words of the Bible in favor of specific interpretations.
The number of verses used to support the binity/trinity are very few (20? 30?) and not a single verse or passage among them actually say that there is a binity/trinity.
The number of verses that claim that Jesus is the Son of God, was sent by God, was raised by God, is subordinate to God, does nothing by His own will, etc. are in the hundreds.
Jesus was declared to be God Himself, not from the scriptures, but from the bishops at the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE after a month of heated debate.
The "Arian controversy," as it came to be known, did not disappear after the Nicene creed was published, but has continued in every generation throughout the 1700 years since that council.
The reason the "Arian controversy" cannot be squashed is the same reason that the Protestants rebelled against the rule of the Roman Catholic church.
When people sit down and study the words in the Bible for the actual doctrines that are taught by nothing but the words of the Bible, they end up rejecting doctrines that do not come from the words of the Bible.
The deity of Jesus has never been debated by Christians, but the relationship between the Son of God and God the Father will always be debated as long as some Christians cannot accept Jesus unless Jesus is God and other Christians see that the Bible teaches that Jesus is subordinate to God.
Sure know how to make a mountain out of a mole hill don't you. Let us just say that you don't believe in the Trinity and leave it at that.
genuineoriginal
New member
That was done at the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE, wasn't it?
It was also done by the poster that created this thread, wasn't it?
You could lie and say that, if you like to lie.
EDIT: My belief, fully supported by the scriptures themselves, is that belief in the Trinity is not necessary for salvation.
You are a Non-Trinitarian therefore a Non-Christian. And I'll forget the "Do you like to Lie?" Comment.
genuineoriginal
New member
I believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, that makes me a Christian.
John 20:31 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. |
Not a single person in two thousand years has been able to show that the Trinity is a doctrine taught by the Bible.
If the doctrine is not taught by the Bible, then where does it come from?
The Trinity doctrine is taught in the Bible. You and many others like you just choose not to acknowledge it. You may be surprised if you look for it. You will find it. Demons believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Does that make them Christians?
genuineoriginal
New member
Unfortunately for you, the Trinity doctrine is not taught in the Bible.
For almost two thousand years devout Christians that believe in the Trinity have been trying and failing to show that the Bible teaches anything even remotely close to the Trinity doctrine.
I know all the proof-texts used to support belief in the Trinity doctrine and about a third of them have merit.
But, these proof-text verses can only support the belief in the Trinity doctrine, they cannot teach the Trinity doctrine.
And not a single demon believes in the Trinity?
I wonder why that is?
Did Jesus die for the demons or for us?
If Jesus did not die for the demons, they can't be Christians, could they?
What about you?
Do you really believe the record (scriptures) that God gave of His Son?
1 John 5:10 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. |
Or do you keep pushing that record aside with your belief that God is the Son?
1 John 5:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
genuineoriginal
New member
John 17:21-22 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: |
Your belief is that the way Jesus and the Father are one is the Trinity.
What happens when humans become one in the Trinity?