"Demonic possession," or mental illness?

[StanJ]

It seems that 3 angels were walking together; final destination, Sodom. Then, on the way they all stopped by and appeared to Abraham. Resuming the trip, what seemed to be the main angel, stayed back with Abraham to share with him what was about to happen in Sodom while the other 2 angels proceeded to the city. With that stay behind, a dialogue took place between Abraham and that angel when a kind of bargain developed which was used later in Judaism for the establishment of the Minyan which is the presence of 10 righteous to prevent a catastrophe. (Gen. 18:32) At this point, the dialogue ended and the presence of the angel was cut off while the presence of the 2 other angels was cut off when Lot and family had left the city.

It states;
The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.
3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”
“Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”

Not angels, God manifest as men.

 

[George Affleck]

Speak for yourself.

Stuart

You are quite right Stuart, I should.

God made me.
You came from a monkey.

 

[George Affleck]

Hey, guess what?!

Stuart and I have just solved the evolution/creation controversy.

All creationists were created by God.
All evolutionists are descended from monkeys.

What an elegant solution!!

 

[freelight]

All life evolves.....having one common life-source

All life evolves.....having one common life-source

Hey, guess what?!

Stuart and I have just solved the evolution/creation controversy.

All creationists were created by God.
All evolutionists are descended from monkeys.

What an elegant solution!!

Whats up with that monkey business?

It might be that we are from a more lemur-like mammal, this particular species being the common ancestor of both apes/monkeys and then man springing from this tree, as far as our biological make up is concerned. In this scenario,....within a theist perspective...'God' is still the Creator (Creative Intelligence) who made man, and gave him the potential to become more like Him (god-like/divine/conscious)....as he ever evolves/grows/develops his own human potential and God-consciousness. I take a more theistic evolutional approach, recognizing the evolution of biology and spirit-consciousness.




pj

 

[Stuu]

You are quite right Stuart, I should.

God made me.
You came from a monkey.

Very happy to be the one that can actually explain where he came from.

Stuart

 

[Ben Masada]

Where is your evidence they were visions? How is it that Sarah shared in the "vision"

Genesis 18:10 Then one of them said, "I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son." Now Sarah was listening at the entrance to the tent, which was behind him. 11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in age; Sarah was past childbearing. 12 Sarah laughed to herself, saying, "After I have become old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?"…

then in 18:15 Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, "I did not laugh." But He said, "Yes, you did laugh."

Evidence that the experience of Abraham with those 3 angels is in the fact that the Lord "appeared" to Abraham. (Gen. 18:1) Abraham was a prophet and, if you read Numb. 12:6, to the Prophets, God would appear to them in a dream or vision. Another evidence is in the fact that Abraham prepared a calf with milk, served them with and they ate. That would be against the commandment of Kashrut possible only in a dream.

You don't have to make the part of Sara literal when she laughed because it is all in the dream of Abraham. He was the one dreaming and not Sara.

 

[Ben Masada]

It states;
The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.
3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”
“Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”

Not angels, God manifest as men.

As angels or as men eating like Gentiles is an evidence that it was in a dream/vision of Abraham.

 

[republicanchick]

I
How many people have been exorcised, feared, scorned, shunned, or worse for a supposed spiritual ailment when it was an unrecognized, undiagnosed physical ailment?

What if there is no such thing as "demonic possession?"

so Jesus cast out... what? What was it that went into the pigs?

it says clearly in the Bible that Jesus cast out DEMONS

thought u were Catholic?

also, the Bible mentions palsy and "out of his mind" , uses the word Lunatic and so we see a separation between the two issues in the Word... btween mental illness/demon possession



+++

 

[Stuu]

it says clearly in the Bible that Jesus cast out DEMONS

It says clearly in the bible that bats are birds, that at least one donkey and one snake could speak human languages, and that goats have striped offspring if they mate having drunk water while facing peeled tree branches.

So when it says clearly that Jesus cast out DEMONS, you might bear in mind the work of G. and I. Gershwin on this subject.

Stuart

 

[annabenedetti]

Hey Anna,

I apologize for jumping in here. Quick question.

Do you think it is possible that the story of Jonah is historical narrative and actually happened, or that it is completely impossible?

No apology necessary. No, I don't think it's historical narrative.

 

[Town Heretic]

No apology necessary. No, I don't think it's historical narrative.

How do you reconcile that with Matthew 12:41? It seems that Jesus is crediting Jonah with a rather literal existence. Or do you see it as a convention that was known to the audience and the speaker? An implied "we all know the story of" bit?

 

[annabenedetti]

How do you reconcile that with Matthew 12:41? It seems that Jesus is crediting Jonah with a rather literal existence. Or do you see it as a convention that was known to the audience and the speaker? An implied "we all know the story of" bit?

Yes, that last. I see it as allegory, or as OT parable. I wonder if Jewish scholars see it as literal? It would be interesting to know.

 

[StanJ]

As angels or as men eating like Gentiles is an evidence that it was in a dream/vision of Abraham.

This makes no sense whatsoever and is NOT supported by the context.

Feel free to elaborate or better, exegete.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Evidence that the experience of Abraham with those 3 angels is in the fact that the Lord "appeared" to Abraham. (Gen. 18:1) Abraham was a prophet and, if you read Numb. 12:6, to the Prophets, God would appear to them in a dream or vision. Another evidence is in the fact that Abraham prepared a calf with milk, served them with and they ate. That would be against the commandment of Kashrut possible only in a dream.

You don't have to make the part of Sara literal when she laughed because it is all in the dream of Abraham. He was the one dreaming and not Sara.

So tell us how sara actually talked to someone in the dream of abraham.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Yes, that last. I see it as allegory, or as OT parable. I wonder if Jewish scholars see it as literal? It would be interesting to know.

Do you see the virgin birth as literal?

 

[Ben Masada]

This makes no sense whatsoever and is NOT supported by the context.

Feel free to elaborate or better, exegete.

Better yet, read Numbers 12:6. The explanation can't be more clear.

 

[Ben Masada]

So tell us how sara actually talked to someone in the dream of abraham.

Don't tell me you have never had a dream with people actually talking to you in the dream and you talking to them! That's very much common and we all have had this kind of dreams.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Don't tell me you have never had a dream with people actually talking to you in the dream and you talking to them!

No, i have never had a dream where my husband outside of my dream could respond to the people i was dreaming about as if he is there in the dream with me.

Are you trying to now claim that sarahs laugh didnt actually happen, but that even what she did, was only part of Abrahams dream?

Thats as far fetched an interpretation as it gets as there is no evidence whatever of that being the case.

 

[Ben Masada]

No, i have never had a dream where my husband outside of my dream could respond to the people i was dreaming about as if he is there in the dream with me.

Are you trying to now claim that sarahs laugh didnt actually happen, but that even what she did, was only part of Abrahams dream?

Thats as far fetched an interpretation as it gets as there is no evidence whatever of that being the case.

That's right! She was only part of Abraham's dream. The same happened when Abraham had a dream that he was about to sacrifice his son Isaac. This was being only part of his father's dream. The same happened to the mother of Samson when she had a dream on about how to raise her child as a Nazarite. Her husband Manoah just happened to be part of her dream. (Judges 13)

And never say that this is far fetched because you have had this kind of dreams too. Every one has. That's the most common thing ever.

 

[Angel4Truth]

That's right! She was only part of Abraham's dream. The same happened when Abraham had a dream that he was about to sacrifice his son Isaac. This was being only part of his father's dream. The same happened to the mother of Samson when she had a dream on about how to raise her child as a Nazarite. Her husband Manoah just happened to be part of her dream. (Judges 13)

And never say that this is far fetched because you have had this kind of dreams. Every one has. That's the most common thing ever.

Except they are shown separately and there is no evidence whatever to get that from the text and this is merely your invention.