Interesting stuff. You have acquainted me with some new information to ponder.
"Demonic possession," or mental illness?
- Thread starter annabenedetti
- Start date
But the historical record shows that God comes to us in dreams as well.
Did you ever hear the Lord say "sin no more now lest a worse thing come upon you"
Now I'm not one to say if someone is sick it is because they have sinned...far, far be it from me to think such a thing. And yet sickness has come upon mankind because he has wandered far from His maker...this is the true meaning of Adam and Eves nakedness, suddenly they were vulnerable to the elements.
God still cares for sinners....oh yes, God slew an ox and clothed them.
The craft of slaying an ox to make clothes is science my friend.
I believe medical science is from God.
Ben Masada
New member
Yes, but the difference between us and the prophets of HaShem is that today, after the Jewish prophetic system has ceased to exist since the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon according to Dan. 9:24 and the availability of God's Word through the Scriptures, only very seldom the Lord would visit one through his dreams or visions. (Deut. 30:11-14)
Although one needed to be a prophet for the Lord to visit him or her during a dream or vision, there was an occasion when He appeared to a lady, not a prophetess, with instructions on how to raise her son to be a Judge in Israel. (Judge 13) It was the wife of Manoah the father of Samson. But most the time, the host had to be a trained prophet. (Numb. 12:6)
Tyrathca
New member
And yet you reject what medical science has shown us.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Then Jesus is a fool.
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand
and were choked in the sea.He spoke to demon spirits, cast them out and told us to do the same.
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Just because science gives names to spiritual ailments doesn't mean that demons are not at work behind-the-scenes, as they always have been.
I do no such thing, medical science cannot see a spirit of infirmity, not even in an X ray it can see the effect the spirit of infirmity is having on the body....they may call this effect cancer....
Tyrathca
New member
Medical science knows what cancer is and why it occurs in great detail. You are again here denying what medical science tells you by claiming things like cancer are somehow caused by spirits rather what science says it is caused by. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Are spirits genetically inheritable? Are they given to people by exposure to certain environmental affects our compounds? Do they cause the same specific genetic changes to cells in multiple people? Can spirits be exorcised by removing a funny looking mole? If your answer is no to these then you are rejecting medical science regarding illnesses like cancer. If your answers are yes then that is one weird sounding spirit and you should explain what you mean.
The main difference between then and now was that the ancient world believed in a "three-tiered universe." The earth below, then the firmament and on top of it all--Heaven. They also believed in weather and other natural events and disasters as coming from God.
And they also believed in evil spirits and demons.
If medical science knew what cancer was and why it occurs it would be cured, and the same is true of arthritis.
You are pushing me into a more extreme position than I actually hold.
We know very well how environment affects the body.
Beside the ability to cast out spirits of infirmity we also see that the ministry of Christ is to do creative miracles.
There is nothing impossible with God, and God is not in opposition to science, Science means knowledge and God created this world by knowledge. All scientists do is discover the particular knowledge concerning aspects of God's creation.
And when the scientist fails, when the doctor shakes his head and says there is no hope, then it is time to turn to God...some of us have learned to make God our FIRST port of call.
...when philosophies fail and political theory
Tyrathca
New member
False. We know a great deal about cancers and what they are about down to many of the genetic changes associated with their formation, many of the genes which are prone to let them form and the exposures likely to cause the mutation which allows for growth. The reason why we haven't cured it is because there are lots of different types of cancer and the difficulty is finding drugs that target the cancer but not the host too much (which is hard). That said many cancers have a very high cure rate provided they are detected early.
You could have said the same for bacterial infections, given we haven't "cured" it. Are bacteria spirits too? Oh and fyi arthritis is a symptom caused by many very different conditions many of which we know a lot about.
I'm not forcing you into anything, you keep denying that it is your position but in the next breath keep affirming it. You do so again in this post too, you deny it's your position then go on to say that medical science doesn't know things it says it knows. The problem I suspect it's that you are so breathtakingly ignorant about any medical science that you can't comprehend how ignorant you are, you then fall into the Dunning-Kruger affect and think you can speak authoritatively on the matter.
You haven't answered whether surgery can cat out spirits too or whether spirits are passed down through genes. Also do you have any double blind randomised control trials of the effectiveness of christian ministry in casting out cancer spirits? I presume not which begs the question why no one has done it as it should be easy to show an affect if you are right.
God isn't going to save you from a ruptured aortic aneurysm or ischaemic gut. Prove me wrong
Yes you would have it that I said all sickness was a spirit of infirmity, I did not.
I did say that everything that appears in the natural has a spiritual cause....
Yes they know what cancer does, they know that one cell becomes aggressive and starts to attack other nearby cells
They do not know what causes this.
They know in arthritis the immune system is activated but for some unknown reason begins to destroy healthy joints and ligaments...if they knew why these things happened they would be close to finding a cure....what they do is treat the symptoms with greater or lesser success.
I did not say all sickness and disease are spirits of infirmity.
But Adam and Eve were neither created sick nor were they prone to sickness, sickness came upon mankind because of his fall from grace, that is the root cause of ALL human woe....so his first problem is spiritual.
Christ is God's anointed Healer as well as Saviour.
Tyrathca
New member
*sigh* Yes they do know!
How many times are you going to double down and say that medical science doesn't know something (so you can insert you spirit of infirmity as the cause) when clearly you know nothing on the subject.
*sigh* not all arthritis is autoimmune
Not but you did say cancer is and implied that "arthritis" is.
I say the root cause of cancer or any other sickness whatsoever is spiritual before it becomes physical so that supersedes any statement I have made concerning "spirits of infirmity" The root cause of ALL the woe that ever fell upon mankind is spiritual before it ever appeared on the natural.
Do you agree with that statement?
I don't care if you do or if you don't, God created man and He placed him in a garden of great beauty and abundance...that is God's will for mankind, that has ALWAYS been God's will for mankind...God wills only good for man.
Man is not created to know evil, God told him to leave that alone. As long as mankind left evil and the knowledge of evil alone he well, in his spirit, in his mind and in his body.
But man did not obey God, he rebelled against this simple command...leave evil alone. When he disobeyed he forfeited all the goodness afforded by the perfect environment that God had placed him...God will not have truc with sin...man was cast out...that is where sickness, disease, poverty, sorrow began.
But God did not leave man in that condition, God sent a Saviour, a Healer, a Deliverer....have you discovered Him yet?
Do you agree with that statement?
I don't care if you do or if you don't, God created man and He placed him in a garden of great beauty and abundance...that is God's will for mankind, that has ALWAYS been God's will for mankind...God wills only good for man.
Man is not created to know evil, God told him to leave that alone. As long as mankind left evil and the knowledge of evil alone he well, in his spirit, in his mind and in his body.
But man did not obey God, he rebelled against this simple command...leave evil alone. When he disobeyed he forfeited all the goodness afforded by the perfect environment that God had placed him...God will not have truc with sin...man was cast out...that is where sickness, disease, poverty, sorrow began.
But God did not leave man in that condition, God sent a Saviour, a Healer, a Deliverer....have you discovered Him yet?
People that argue against demonic possession being real, and it only being a medical condition of some sort, have never dealt with real demonic possession. Any medical condition is the FRUIT, not the ROOT of the problem, the root is spiritual.
And I am qualified to speak of this because I had terminal cancer which the Lord healed. I had no meds, nor treatment of any kind. And again, the root was spiritual, not physical. Deal with the root, and the fruit has to go.
Same principle shown when the Lord had them build the temple, and send for Egyptians and Chaldeans, who were previously banned from close association because of their pagan religions. But they were specialists at their part in the temple building and when it was done, they left and the priests cleansed the temple. The spiritual problem is there to do a job, and when it's job is done, it has to leave. ALL things work together for good to those that love the Lord, even if it appears to be a bad thing at the time.
And I am qualified to speak of this because I had terminal cancer which the Lord healed. I had no meds, nor treatment of any kind. And again, the root was spiritual, not physical. Deal with the root, and the fruit has to go.
Same principle shown when the Lord had them build the temple, and send for Egyptians and Chaldeans, who were previously banned from close association because of their pagan religions. But they were specialists at their part in the temple building and when it was done, they left and the priests cleansed the temple. The spiritual problem is there to do a job, and when it's job is done, it has to leave. ALL things work together for good to those that love the Lord, even if it appears to be a bad thing at the time.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Bumping for old times, new ideas, and good memories.
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
According to scripture all of humanity is demonically possessed. Only those that are regenerate are set free from the captivity of sin and Satan.
There is demonic possession. But notice that the Church is very careful to first have the person examined for physical and mental illness before even considering an exorcism. There are far more cases of mental illness or brain disorder than there are cases of possession.