"Demonic possession," or mental illness?

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
You plant a garden in your backyard. Do the plants have a judicial right to pass judgement on your decisions of when to weed it, water it, prune it, or how to harvest?

Holy Molly - did you give ANY thought to this when you replied? :) LOL Talk about a serious case of false equivocation!!! (Probably the worst I've ever read!!) So you are comparing the non-thinking simple cell life with the highest evolved being capable of an abstract thought? Seriously dude (or dudette).........

Shalom!

Correct.
Except that the analogy breaks down in that God is far greater than this puny comparison.
BTW - we are not evolved - God made us.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
From my own personal experience I can attest that it seems that when some folks imbibe "whatever" it's like someone else is in attendance. It's like there is some sort of protective shield that is breached at that time.
 

Tyrathca

New member
From my own personal experience I can attest that it seems that when some folks imbibe "whatever" it's like someone else is in attendance. It's like there is some sort of protective shield that is breached at that time.

The problem with that theory is that the way their behaviour changes is somewhat predictable and can often be understood based on neurophysiology and pharmacology. Do the drugs let in different kinds of "someone else" based on the types of cell receptors affected? Can demons be affected by drugs?
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
The problem with that theory is that the way their behaviour changes is somewhat predictable and can often be understood based on neurophysiology and pharmacology. Do the drugs let in different kinds of "someone else" based on the types of cell receptors affected? Can demons be affected by drugs?

As I said, It looks to me like some sort of breach is created in whatever shield there is around the human spirit and the results are seldom pleasant. That is why I quit doing drugs at a fairly young age. Not real sure about the mechanism but I'm pretty familiar with the effect and ... no thanks. Now, as to the source of that unpleasantness ... you tell me ... why is it so uniformly bad?
 

bybee

New member
I finally agree with you on something. In fact, if you ask me, no one can be possessed by the Devil as it does not exist. The Devil is only a concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man.

I am curious though, if there are Angels why not Demons?
 

Ben Masada

New member
I am curious though, if there are Angels why not Demons?

No need to be as there are no angels either. Angels are simply emanations. An angel means messenger. As long as someone has a message to deliver he or she is an angel. Once delivered, one is no longer to be called an angel. As Biblical literature is concerned, angels appear only in the dreams of a prophet or pious people.
 

bybee

New member
No need to be as there are no angels either. Angels are simply emanations. An angel means messenger. As long as someone has a message to deliver he or she is an angel. Once delivered, one is no longer to be called an angel. As Biblical literature is concerned, angels appear only in the dreams of a prophet or pious people.

I have experienced both in dreams.
 

PureX

Well-known member
How many people have been exorcised, feared, scorned, shunned, or worse for a supposed spiritual ailment when it was an unrecognized, undiagnosed physical ailment?

What if there is no such thing as "demonic possession?"
It's basically the difference between "spirit stones" and "magnets". That is, there is no difference in the stones, themselves. Just in the way people perceive them.

Many years ago, in Chicago, I happened upon a tv preacher who's specialty was casting out demons. He had many brochures and pamphlets he pushed on his show explaining to people how to cast out all sorts of demons. I watched out of curiosity.

To my surprise, however, I began to realize that what he was offering were real and practical responses and solutions to very real forms of mental and emotional illnesses. He was just using very archaic and superstition-laden terminology to define the problems and explain the solutions.

At first I assumed he was a con-man, or a hack, but I realized that the people he served could never have afforded to go to a psychologist to be treated for these illnesses, and would never have understood them if help was presented to them in modern scientific terminology. So in reality, this preacher really was helping people who otherwise would never have received any. And he was doing it in the most effective way, given their level and means of understanding.

Turns out he wasn't a con-man at all. He was just a very smart man trying to help "the least among us" deal with some very complicated mental and emotional illnesses and traumas. My hats off to him!
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
No need to be as there are no angels either. Angels are simply emanations. An angel means messenger. As long as someone has a message to deliver he or she is an angel. Once delivered, one is no longer to be called an angel. As Biblical literature is concerned, angels appear only in the dreams of a prophet or pious people.

Who do you believe the men were in Genesis 18 and 19? 19 says they were an angels and they didnt appear in a dream. (one of many examples)
 

Cons&Spires

BANNED
Banned
There couldn't NOT be any such thing as demonic possession, because not only is it seen in the New Testament, but it was actually a regular practice to exercise them long before Christ.

*adding to this post :)*

I believe demonic possession has different 'tiers', which can either remain as they or grow worse to a point where they require rebuke from another source other then by one's own will.
Which would be 'full possession', and no longer simply a foothold or pulling of one's body. I think that many people have a demon doing such, but it's in the unfortunate event of a spirit being able to conquer the body from the soul in which an exorcism is needed. One could go to church and edify the soul to keep the body away from the demon in regular circumstances.

It's generally recommended that a person first repent or be baptized before considering that an exorcism is necessary, in other words.
 
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Ben Masada

New member
Who do you believe the men were in Genesis 18 and 19? 19 says they were an angels and they didnt appear in a dream. (one of many examples)

A dream or a vision is almost the same thing. The apparition of those three angels to Abraham was a vision as he was slumbering worried about an heir when Sara could have none, and by cycles, he would transfer his mind to Sodom, thinking about his nephew in Sodom and the news of 5 kings in war. Then, the angels appeared to him with news about Sara, and Lot in Sodom. It was then that Abraham had a dialogue with the Lord in the vision about the establishment of the Jewish Minyan. (Gen. 18:32) A vision takes a different turn from a dream when the dreamer from the REM phase of the dream, he gets into the lucid part of the dream which is called a vision. Another difference is that in a vision, the dreamer is in charge of what is happening.
 

Ben Masada

New member
Gen 18:1 is God manifest as 3 men. They are not the same as the 2 angels in Gen 19.

It seems that 3 angels were walking together; final destination, Sodom. Then, on the way they all stopped by and appeared to Abraham. Resuming the trip, what seemed to be the main angel, stayed back with Abraham to share with him what was about to happen in Sodom while the other 2 angels proceeded to the city. With that stay behind, a dialogue took place between Abraham and that angel when a kind of bargain developed which was used later in Judaism for the establishment of the Minyan which is the presence of 10 righteous to prevent a catastrophe. (Gen. 18:32) At this point, the dialogue ended and the presence of the angel was cut off while the presence of the 2 other angels was cut off when Lot and family had left the city.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
A dream or a vision is almost the same thing. The apparition of those three angels to Abraham was a vision as he was slumbering worried about an heir when Sara could have none, and by cycles, he would transfer his mind to Sodom, thinking about his nephew in Sodom and the news of 5 kings in war. Then, the angels appeared to him with news about Sara, and Lot in Sodom. It was then that Abraham had a dialogue with the Lord in the vision about the establishment of the Jewish Minyan. (Gen. 18:32) A vision takes a different turn from a dream when the dreamer from the REM phase of the dream, he gets into the lucid part of the dream which is called a vision. Another difference is that in a vision, the dreamer is in charge of what is happening.

It seems that 3 angels were walking together; final destination, Sodom. Then, on the way they all stopped by and appeared to Abraham. Resuming the trip, what seemed to be the main angel, stayed back with Abraham to share with him what was about to happen in Sodom while the other 2 angels proceeded to the city. With that stay behind, a dialogue took place between Abraham and that angel when a kind of bargain developed which was used later in Judaism for the establishment of the Minyan which is the presence of 10 righteous to prevent a catastrophe. (Gen. 18:32) At this point, the dialogue ended and the presence of the angel was cut off while the presence of the 2 other angels was cut off when Lot and family had left the city.


Where is your evidence they were visions? How is it that Sarah shared in the "vision"

Genesis 18:10 Then one of them said, "I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son." Now Sarah was listening at the entrance to the tent, which was behind him. 11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in age; Sarah was past childbearing. 12 Sarah laughed to herself, saying, "After I have become old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?"…

then in 18:15 Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, "I did not laugh." But He said, "Yes, you did laugh."
 
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