"Demonic possession," or mental illness?

[Tyrathca]

For those who are still saying demonic possession is still real can any of you describe how you tell the difference between it and non-spiritual causes?

 

[kmoney]

Okay. With that background, something near the end of the book caught my attention. On page 222:

Evil. To the untrained eye, anti-NMDA-receptor autoimmune encephalitis can certainly appear malevolent. Afflicted sons and daughters suddenly became possessed, demonic, like creatures out of our most appalling nightmares. Imagine a young girl who, after several days of full-bodied convulsions that sent her flying into the air and off her bed – and after speaking in a strange, deep baritone, contorted her body and crab-walked down the staircase, hissing like a snake and spewing blood.

This chilling scene is, of course, from the unedited version of the blockbuster film The Exorcist, and though fictionalized, it depicts many of the same behaviors that children suffering from anti-NMDA-receptor autoimmune encephalitis do… In 2009, a thirteen-year-old girl from Tennessee displayed a “range of emotions and symptoms that varied by the hour, at time mirroring schizophrenia, and at other times, autism or cerebral palsy.” She lashed out violently and would bite her tongue and mouth. She once insisted on crab-walking across the hospital floor. She also spoke in a bizarre, Cajun-inflected accent, according to the Chattanooga Times Free Press, which detailed her experience with anti-NMDA-receptor autoimmune encephalitis and subsequent recovery...
​

I

That's fascinating and scary. :think:

 

[Selaphiel]

I agree with much of this. Just like parents (or anyone) shouldn't skip medical treatments for physical ailments in favor of only praying for healing, they shouldn't skip medical treatments and diagnosis for mental or emotional ailments as well. However, I'm wary of writing off demon possession completely, based on scriptural testimony. Do you think angels and demons in general are simply parts of the biblical cosmology that shouldn't be taken seriously?

I can't write it off either. Just that I haven't seen any case that isn't explainable in terms of psychiatry.

Not sure I would put angels and demons as "equals" in this case. Angels are messengers of the divine, and their nature in scripture is unclear to say the least. I don't think they are, at least not often, tied to things that we know are explainable in other terms. Demons on the other hand are almost exclusively tied to causes of both physical conditions and mental sickness.

 

[Hedshaker]

For those who are still saying demonic possession is still real can any of you describe how you tell the difference between it and non-spiritual causes?

I would also like to see this addressed. It never ceases to amaze me the bat poo crazy stuff people consider possible. But then you never know, maybe that ubiquitous guy in the asylum really is Napoleon :kookoo:

 

[StanJ]

How many demoniacs have you encountered?

A few, and it was very unsettling. It is NOT like the movies.

 

[StanJ]

For those who are still saying demonic possession is still real can any of you describe how you tell the difference between it and non-spiritual causes?

Well you have to be born of the spirit first of all, so those who aren't, CAN'T.
Once you are and prepared to do that kind of warfare, it is not hard to tell.
There is no doubt when you deal with a demoniac as opposed to someone with Tourette syndrome .

 

[annabenedetti]

A few, and it was very unsettling. It is NOT like the movies.

I'm curious. How did you determine they weren't mentally ill? I mean, how do you look at someone and decide they're possessed?

 

[Tyrathca]

Well you have to be born of the spirit first of all, so those who aren't, CAN'T.
Once you are and prepared to do that kind of warfare, it is not hard to tell.
There is no doubt when you deal with a demoniac as opposed to someone with Tourette syndrome .

This sounds like you're saying that only certain people have the special ability to sense the difference. Those that can don't use any criteria but instead "just know" (psychic? Hunch? Guessing? What?) and the possessed are otherwise indistinguishable from non-spiritual diseases.

Did I get that right? The way you worded it left me unclear so I'm trying to understand /clarify.

 

[annabenedetti]

Thus, a common cold, cancer, and demonic possession originate from the same source.

The devil causes colds and cancer?

I appreciate your thoughtful answer, and hope you take the question in that light - and I hope I'm misunderstanding you.

 

[annabenedetti]

If the behavior is treatable by ordinary medical methods, then it was not demonic possession in the first place.

I don't think historically that medical diagnosis and treatment was necessarily attempted before possession was assumed to be the cause, especially since it's only been in recent history that we knew enough about the brain to even identify and recognize many disorders that we know about today. Heck, even the young woman in the OP was only the 217th. person to receive her particular diagnosis.

We have warrant from Scripture that demonic possession is possible in God's creatures that are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit. To say that demonic possession is not possible is to deny the verbal plenary inspiration of the Bible.

AMR

Are you a biblical literalist? Jonah in the belly of the whale, for example?

 

[George Affleck]

The devil causes colds and cancer?

I appreciate your thoughtful answer, and hope you take the question in that light - and I hope I'm misunderstanding you.

Yes you are misunderstanding.

Original sin is the ultimate cause of all disease and particularly death. Disobedience is sin. Listening to God's enemy is disobedience.

It is popular to believe that sin is an abstraction. It is not. It is an actual thing that holds sway in the world. It affects everything.

 

[annabenedetti]

Yes you are misunderstanding.

Original sin is the ultimate cause of all disease and particularly death. Disobedience is sin. Listening to God's enemy is disobedience.

It is popular to believe that sin is an abstraction. It is not. It is an actual thing that holds sway in the world. It affects everything.

Not all Christians believe in original sin. Catholics do, but not all Christians. What do those who don't believe in original sin say about sin and death?

Catholics baptize babies for that specific reason, to wash away original sin. Catholic doctrine holds out hope for heaven for unbaptized babies, but doesn't guarantee their salvation.

What kind of God would deny heaven to an innocent baby?

What kind of doctrine would inflict illness and death on someone for sins they weren't guilty of? I know these aren't original questions at all, but they're my questions right now.

 

[StanJ]

I'm curious. How did you determine they weren't mentally ill? I mean, how do you look at someone and decide they're possessed?

The same way Jesus and the apostles knew. Spiritual discernment.

 

[annabenedetti]

I doubted everyone
and
everything except the rules and authority without a question

I preferred order to chaos
and
will continue to do so

Why didn't you question the rules and authority? Was it because they represented order and that's what felt comfortable and reassuring?

But how could you doubt everyone without doubting their rules and authority?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm trying to make sure I'm understanding you.

yes I was raised to be obedient
and
so was everyone around me
and
I could see what happened when you weren't

I didn't like that part

What happened when you weren't?

 

[StanJ]

This sounds like you're saying that only certain people have the special ability to sense the difference. Those that can don't use any criteria but instead "just know" (psychic? Hunch? Guessing? What?) and the possessed are otherwise indistinguishable from non-spiritual diseases.
Did I get that right? The way you worded it left me unclear so I'm trying to understand /clarify.

As you label yourself an Atheist, you won't understand nor accept my explanation. Suffice it to say it IS distinguishable in the spiritual realm.

 

[annabenedetti]

The same way Jesus and the apostles knew. Spiritual discernment.

You're not Jesus. You're not the first Christian I've encountered who claims for himself divine ability, but this one could be detrimental to anyone in your life struggling with mental illness.

You're assuming an ability for yourself that can't be proven. You say you have discernment, therefore you do?

 

[StanJ]

You're not Jesus. You're not the first Christian I've encountered who claims for himself divine ability, but this one could be detrimental to anyone in your life struggling with mental illness.
You're assuming an ability for yourself that can't be proven. You say you have discernment, therefore you do?

I claimed no such thing so obviously YOU don't read with comprehension or English is not your mother tongue.

No assumption at all....EXPERIENCE.

 

[annabenedetti]

I claimed no such thing so obviously YOU don't read with comprehension or English is not your mother tongue.

No assumption at all....EXPERIENCE.

The same way Jesus and the apostles knew. Spiritual discernment.

Sorry, you're not convincing. I hope the next time you 'discern' that someone is possessed, you're friend or family enough help them seek help from a medical professional.

 

[fzappa13]

Not all Christians believe in original sin. Catholics do, but not all Christians. What do those who don't believe in original sin say about sin and death?

Catholics baptize babies for that specific reason, to wash away original sin. Catholic doctrine holds out hope for heaven for unbaptized babies, but doesn't guarantee their salvation.

What kind of God would deny heaven to an innocent baby?

What kind of doctrine would inflict illness and death on someone for sins they weren't guilty of? I know these aren't original questions at all, but they're my questions right now.

You answered your own question, dear. It's a doctrine and nothing more. Doctrines can neither save or condemn anyone.

 

[annabenedetti]

Slow down a bit, remove the blindness that has you an RC, and reread that post - it is a true account, not "a bizarrely bad joke."

Do you have source attribution for this bizarrely bad true account?