Creation vs. Evolution

[Jonahdog]

I didn't see him say the oceans would boil away. That remains your theory.

You avoided my indirect question. Does it seem even remotely possible that if you piled enough water on a slab of rock it would eventually vaporize?

I doubt Stripe is avoiding any question of yours, seeing that your post is only some hours old. Himalayas I reckon are about 4400 years old. Probably formed from deformation of tectonic plates as water weight moved from below to above, pushing weaker areas down and them other areas up.

I suppose its possible that the Hand of God could have turned on his map editor mode instead and even supplied push or pull where he wanted it, but I am not submitting that for discussion, only completeness.... After all the nature of this discussion is supposed to consider the possibility of powerful intelligent creative force... As opposed to all the matter in the Universe "poofing" into being from absolutely nothing. Just putting this in scale for you as a reminder.

Incidentally your "no one else thinks your way" is a bogus and flawed argument. First it doesn't matter because truth is not measured by majority, second your reasoning is circular since you redefine flood belief as "Bible fundamentalist." Third, you ignore non Bible sources that support the flood so you're wrong there too.

Interesting how the fossil distribution favors a fast massive extinction with that which would drown or be sucked down first at the bottom. It proves inconsistent with the "evolution geologic table" theory.

WOW, just WOW.

 

[Jose Fly]

I didn't see him say the oceans would boil away. That remains your theory.

It's an obvious consequence of what he proposed and estimated. What else do you think he meant by "the thermal problem"?

You avoided my indirect question. Does it seem even remotely possible that if you piled enough water on a slab of rock it would eventually vaporize?

Not sure what you're talking about. Be more specific.

Himalayas I reckon are about 4400 years old. Probably formed from deformation of tectonic plates as water weight moved from below to above, pushing weaker areas down and them other areas up.

So your proposal is that the Himalayas didn't exist at all prior to the flood, and came to exist at their present height within the timeframe of the flood (less than one year)?

I suppose its possible that the Hand of God could have turned on his map editor mode instead and even supplied push or pull where he wanted it, but I am not submitting that for discussion, only completeness.... After all the nature of this discussion is supposed to consider the possibility of powerful intelligent creative force...

Yeah, that's where all these discussions usually end up. When presented with the realities of their flood scenarios creationists fall back on "God fixed it". And that's also why no one has taken any of this seriously in over 200 years.

Incidentally your "no one else thinks your way" is a bogus and flawed argument. First it doesn't matter because truth is not measured by majority,

I didn't say anything about it reflecting on the truth of the matter. Rather I pointed out that fact as an indication of what you're up against. You're basically in the same boat as flat-earth geocentrists. In both cases the breadth of our knowledge has been completely stacked against you for centuries, which means you have quite a task before you if you hope to change the situation.

second your reasoning is circular since you redefine flood belief as "Bible fundamentalist."

??????? Are you saying Noah's flood isn't something believed by Christian fundamentalists?

Third, you ignore non Bible sources that support the flood so you're wrong there too.

Such as?

Interesting how the fossil distribution favors a fast massive extinction with that which would drown or be sucked down first at the bottom. It proves inconsistent with the "evolution geologic table" theory.

Sorry, but no one but you finds your baseless say-so persuasive. Regarding the fossil record, here's an interesting question for ya....why don't we find trilobite fossils mixed in with modern benthic marine organisms like lobsters and crabs? Shouldn't they have been buried together in this flood?

 

[patrick jane]

....why don't we find trilobite fossils mixed in with modern benthic marine organisms like lobsters and crabs? Shouldn't they have been buried together in this flood?

Cuz we eats lobsters

 

[Silent Hunter]

Have you figured out that "could" doesn't mean "did"?

7 billion people could result from just 8 on the ark, in a period of 4500 years.

6days is famous for how he states his conclusions. He often says, "The evidence best fits the Biblical creation model. In the beginning, God created". The implication, of course, is that not only is he saying X could happen, it's the only possible solution, thus absolute proof the bible, his version of deity, and christianity is true.

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[Silent Hunter]

I am only going to adderss one section (paragraph ?) of your latest post to me.

Can you do this forum a favor and cut down on the spam?

Don't you realize that if I'm spamming you I'm spamming myself? You need to either upgrade your phone or use a different browser or app, Tapatalk works very well for me on my Galaxy S III.

If I cannot wade through your messy inline on a cell phone and I say I cannot get to it tonight, don't waste space on that.

You probably don't realize that your posts are at least as long as mine. My phone handles the text quite well and I have no difficulty seeing the separation in posts or individual blurbs. I can't fix YOUR problem so I'd appreciate it if you would quit complaining about it.

If your question style were more intelligent and or efficient you'd have precision answers on all things already.

If your complaining style was less whiney and you would quit wasting time blaming me for YOUR problems and YOUR inability master YOUR technology we would be significantly further along in the discussion.

I skimmed through the rest of your post. What I read lacked substance and, honestly, it didn't have anything more than the biased assumptions and typical apologetic rhetoric that I've come to expect from christian fundamentalists. Whatever we might say to one another is unlikely (never going) to sway the other's opinion. You are still going to live in a fantasy and I'm still going to enjoy reality.

Although this is not my list and isn't exhastive I think it sums up the christian delusion nicely:
http://fisheswithfeet.blogspot.com/2012/01/top-10-ridiculous-contradictions-of.html?m=1
Once you let go of christian nonsense and realize that the bible is no more than fiction akin to a zombie apocalypse movie the better you will be able to face reality.

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[fzappa13]

Yeah, that's where all these discussions usually end up. When presented with the realities of their flood scenarios creationists fall back on "God fixed it". And that's also why no one has taken any of this seriously in over 200 years.

The legend of a global flood is much more pervasive than you suggest.


http://www.varchive.org/itb/deluge.htm

 

[Rosenritter]

It's an obvious consequence of what he proposed and estimated. What else do you think he meant by "the thermal problem"?



Not sure what you're talking about. Be more specific.



So your proposal is that the Himalayas didn't exist at all prior to the flood, and came to exist at their present height within the timeframe of the flood (less than one year)?



Yeah, that's where all these discussions usually end up. When presented with the realities of their flood scenarios creationists fall back on "God fixed it". And that's also why no one has taken any of this seriously in over 200 years.



I didn't say anything about it reflecting on the truth of the matter. Rather I pointed out that fact as an indication of what you're up against. You're basically in the same boat as flat-earth geocentrists. In both cases the breadth of our knowledge has been completely stacked against you for centuries, which means you have quite a task before you if you hope to change the situation.



??????? Are you saying Noah's flood isn't something believed by Christian fundamentalists?



Such as?



Sorry, but no one but you finds your baseless say-so persuasive. Regarding the fossil record, here's an interesting question for ya....why don't we find trilobite fossils mixed in with modern benthic marine organisms like lobsters and crabs? Shouldn't they have been buried together in this flood?

Why do you want me to adopt his calculations when I cannot vouch for their soundness? I am the one throwing the flag and asking for a sanity check, you're just nodding your head.

Let me put this in small words for you. Does it sound reasonable to you that if you piled enough weight of water on a tectonic plate that it would make so much heat as to vaporize that same water?

Because that is the theory you've been espousing. Sounds pretty dumb to me.

Something to enlighten you here. Not all people who acknowledge a worldwide flood (or Noah's flood) are Christians, let alone Christian fundamentalists. Don't burn out your brain cells too hard there trying to figure that out, I will supply an example. I am not considered a Christian fundamentalist (at least by those that call themselves such) so that contradicts your stereotype already. But I guess it all depends on who is making the definitions, eh? Joint examples want support.

Now... About your last question... Why would you think that trilobites and lobsters wouldn't have been in the same cataclysm? Cannot say I am an expert in observing trilobites, but perhaps they weren't the sturdiest creatures so they tended to die, sink, and be buried first. Lots of sediment layers would been laid in that short time.

So I have a counter question. If trilobites evolved, and we have so many trilobite fossils, where's the transitional evolution fossils that should be spilling out our ears and forming a huge highway? And for part two, how did they get such complex eyes?

 

[Rosenritter]

I am only going to adderss one section (paragraph ?) of your latest post to me. Don't you realize that if I'm spamming you I'm spamming myself? You need to either upgrade your phone or use a different browser or app, Tapatalk works very well for me on my Galaxy S III.You probably don't realize that your posts are at least as long as mine. My phone handles the text quite well and I have no difficulty seeing the separation in posts or individual blurbs. I can't fix YOUR problem so I'd appreciate it if you would quit complaining about it.If your complaining style was less whiney and you would quit wasting time blaming me for YOUR problems and YOUR inability master YOUR technology we would be significantly further along in the discussion.

I skimmed through the rest of your post. What I read lacked substance and, honestly, it didn't have anything more than the biased assumptions and typical apologetic rhetoric that I've come to expect from christian fundamentalists. Whatever we might say to one another is unlikely (never going) to sway the other's opinion. You are still going to live in a fantasy and I'm still going to enjoy reality.

Although this is not my list and isn't exhastive I think it sums up the christian delusion nicely:
http://fisheswithfeet.blogspot.com/2012/01/top-10-ridiculous-contradictions-of.html?m=1
Once you let go of christian nonsense and realize that the bible is no more than fiction akin to a zombie apocalypse movie the better you will be able to face reality.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Many words, no content.

 

[Stripe]

6days is famous for how he states his conclusions. He often says, "The evidence best fits the Biblical creation model. In the beginning, God created". The implication, of course, is that not only is he saying X could happen, it's the only possible solution, thus absolute proof the bible, his version of deity, and christianity is true.Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

I feel confident that with time and counseling, you'll get over it. :up:

Meanwhile, he said "could."

When are you going to admit your error? It's pretty minor. :chuckle:

 

[Rosenritter]

WOW, just WOW.

The funny thing Jonahdog is that proving Noah's flood one way or the other doesn't actually win either side in a creation or evolution debate.

Yet the emotional hatred becomes most palpable at this point. So I am supposing that perhaps the real thing being fought here is Humanistic atheism vs Christian theism?

 

[Silent Hunter]

Many words, no content.

:sigh: It's your loss. Don't blame me for you inability to face the obvious. Cognitive bias is a powerful psychological problem to overcome, most theists never do, not that I thought there was a chance you would recognize it in yourself. Anyone who would waste their vacation on TOL has issues anyway, least of which is CB.

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[Stripe]

Wow. Just wow. Your loss. Don't blame us for you inability to face the obvious. Cognitive bias is a powerful psychological problem to overcome, which most atheists never do, not that we thought there was a chance you would recognize it in yourself. Anyone who would spend their atheism on TOL has issues anyway.

 

[6days]

6days is famous for how he states his conclusions. He often says, "The evidence best fits the Biblical creation model. In the beginning, God created".

Yes, the evidence is consistent with God's Word.

The implication, of course, is that not only is he saying X could happen....

Yes....because that is what the evidence showed. Even you agreed that the earths population of about 7 billion COULD originate from just 8 people in a span of 4500 years.

 

[6days]

Regarding the fossil record, here's an interesting question for ya....why don't we find trilobite fossils mixed in with modern benthic marine organisms like lobsters and crabs? Shouldn't they have been buried together in this flood?

Actually..... bigger and badder lobsters exist in the fossil record in the same layers as trilobites. In fact evilutionists have dated a huge lobster at 450 million years, and I think they say trilobites existed up until 250 million years.
But apart from that, it is evolutionists who have problems explaining away the evidence of the fossil record. For example trilobites and other creatures had sophisticated vision systems that seem to surprise evolutionists. The evidence supports..."In the beginning, God created...."

 

[6days]

W
lobsters .....
.... where's the transitional evolution fossils that should be spilling out our ears and forming a huge highway?

Hey..... Interesting thought regarding lobsters.... ears...and evidence for our Creator.
Did you know lobsters stuff grains of sand in their 'ears'? They do this because they have a 'sensor' that detects the sand along with gravity acting on the sand to tell them which way is up and down when swimming. But when the shed their exoskeleton, they lose the grains of sand, so they simply pick up new sand grains and stuff it in their ears, and once again they can navigate. Guess who programmed the lobsters to know how to do that?

Apparently.....if you put grains of iron in an aquarium, the lobster will stuff those in his new 'ears'. Then, if you want to see a lobster swim upside down, you hold a magnet above the aquarium.

 

[Jonahdog]

Many words, no content.

Irony meter broken again.

 

[Stripe]

Apparently.....if you put grains of iron in an aquarium, the lobster will stuff those in his new 'ears'. Then, if you want to see a lobster swim upside down, you hold a magnet above the aquarium.

That's something like how Darwinists are controllable: Just get a creationist to cite a fact and they will do everything in their power to reject it.

 

[Jonahdog]

That's something like how Darwinists are controllable: Just get a creationist to cite a fact and they will do everything in their power to reject it.

Which fact was rejected? the fact that lobsters use sand grains in sensory organs to determine up from down? or the fact that 6 jumps to a goddidit program?

 

[Stripe]

Which fact was rejected? the fact that lobsters use sand grains in sensory organs to determine up from down? or the fact that 6 jumps to a goddidit program?

Are you naturally this stupid, or do you have to work at it?

 

[Jose Fly]

Why do you want me to adopt his calculations when I cannot vouch for their soundness?

Do you have better estimates? If not, then Baumgardner's are the best we have.

Let me put this in small words for you. Does it sound reasonable to you that if you piled enough weight of water on a tectonic plate that it would make so much heat as to vaporize that same water?

You're not making sense. If you think "piling water on tectonic plates" makes mountain ranges in less than a year, why isn't that going on now (since we have water on plates now)?

Something to enlighten you here. Not all people who acknowledge a worldwide flood (or Noah's flood) are Christians, let alone Christian fundamentalists.

For the most part they are.

Don't burn out your brain cells too hard there trying to figure that out, I will supply an example. I am not considered a Christian fundamentalist (at least by those that call themselves such)

Why not?

Now... About your last question... Why would you think that trilobites and lobsters wouldn't have been in the same cataclysm? Cannot say I am an expert in observing trilobites, but perhaps they weren't the sturdiest creatures so they tended to die, sink, and be buried first. Lots of sediment layers would been laid in that short time.

I thought you were an expert in this area. After all, you assured us that the fossil record supports the flood and contradicts evolution, but now you're saying you're not an expert? If you're not an expert, why should anyone take your say-so as unquestioned gospel?

So I have a counter question. If trilobites evolved, and we have so many trilobite fossils, where's the transitional evolution fossils that should be spilling out our ears and forming a huge highway? And for part two, how did they get such complex eyes?

Nice try at a red herring, but I'm not falling for it.