Creation vs. Evolution

[iouae]

Colossians 1:16 KJV -

And just as God created the old heavens and earth, so He will create a new one.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The Bible never tells us much about what God will do beyond the eighth millennium when He creates a new heaven and earth.

When we get there, He will show us.

 

[iouae]

Yes Iouae... we know your god is not all knowing.
However the God of the Bible is.

If it floats your boat to think God can never learn anything new, then go for it.

I believe in a God who can learn, imagine, grow, and take us to places even He has not yet conceived of. I like my God

And reading the Bible, I see many places where He learned and grew. You never addressed the Ab experiment, where only after it did God know if Ab was faithful.

 

[Hedshaker]

God is a scientist.

God performed an experiment with Ab.
AIM: to see if Ab would follow Him whatever.
METHOD: go sacrifice Isaac.
RESULT: Ab went and was raising the knife to kill Isaac
CONCLUSION:
Genesis 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Only then did God know, after performing the experiment/test.

That isn't science by any stretch of the imagination. Sounds more like a heartless trick played on a vulnerable father by a cruel and sadistic boss-God...... It's all right there, no need to cut the child's throat, I was just having a bit of fun with you.. A bit like an impetuous child taking pleasure in torturing the family pet just because he can. If this God is "all knowing" like you guys like to claim, why on Earth would he need to test anyone like that?

It's a sick story and just as well there isn't a rag of truth in it.

 

[iouae]

That isn't science by any stretch of the imagination. Sounds more like a heartless trick played on a vulnerable father by a cruel and sadistic boss-God...... It's all right there, no need to cut the child's throat, I was just having a bit of fun with you.. A bit like an impetuous child taking pleasure in torturing the family pet just because he can. If this God is "all knowing" like you guys like to claim, why on Earth would he need to test anyone like that?

It's a sick story and just as well there isn't a rag of truth in it.

You should read the Bible. There are a lot of "sick stories" in the Bible. Here is another one...

2 King 2

22 So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake.

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

 

[MichaelCadry]

That isn't science by any stretch of the imagination. Sounds more like a heartless trick played on a vulnerable father by a cruel and sadistic boss-God...... It's all right there, no need to cut the child's throat, I was just having a bit of fun with you.. A bit like an impetuous child taking pleasure in torturing the family pet just because he can. If this God is "all knowing" like you guys like to claim, why on Earth would he need to test anyone like that?

It's a sick story and just as well there isn't a rag of truth in it.

Dear Hedshaker,

It is no sick story. It is a prelude to teaching remaining humans to love God more than everything and anyone, putting Him FIRST in your life, for you will face much harder testing in Hell from the devil, Satan. You don't know the half of what you speak. The 'sick story' was to show people how to remain loyal and also trust God with all thy heart, soul, and mind. You know that I know that God was not going to let Abraham kill his son, right?? And why did God just happen to have a ram with it's horns stuck in a bush/thicket, or whatever, for an offering instead? The story is one of a Greater Love of God than of one another, even your firstborn children. God wanted to teach all of the people who came afterward and read this story, a simple, IMPORTANT, lesson. And He did do that, despite some who don't see the forest from the trees. Don't get upset for me at any of my words to you, Hedshaker. You know I care about you and I'm not trying to cause you a problem at all. It's just that you always want to see God as an ominous Spirit. Our God is a LOVING God, full of TENDER MERCIES, and He is Holy and Wise, and Giving, and Forgiving, and Understanding, and He loves you even more than your mother could!! You DON'T know my God. Many or most of the things that are written in the Bible are done to be made as an Example for future people to live and forgive, and of course, LOVE!! Even Jesus and His Life's Story are for other people to know how to live, and carry themselves, and die, and live again.

Warmest Regards & Cheerio!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

You should read the Bible. There are a lot of "sick stories" in the Bible. Here is another one...

2 King 2

22 So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake.

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Dear iouae,

This was done to teach ADULTS and children not to mock a prophet, {especially a bald one}, nor to treat prophets horridly. It is a one-time thing to teach other future generations. That's why it happened. As an experience for others to learn from!!

Much Love Coming At You!!

Michael

 

[alwight]

A scientific consensus does have at least some rather good indicative value even before looking at the evidence and the reasoning.

No it doesn't. You indict yourself.

No, you do, you are a closed mind to scientific rationality as even being an indicator of where the truth may reasonably exist.
As for common descent please do explain how you have falsified it and why the scientific consensus seems to disregard it so easily? Conspiracy?

It isn't real evidence that makes me lose interest it's typically irrational conclusions and bald assertions like yours that do that.

I always follow my assertions with evidence, and my conclusions are always rational. But please, if you can find an irrational conclusion I came to just list it.

As above.

No, I simply see no rationality or reason for belief in voodoo, magic or the miraculous nor in blind adherence to an ancient scripture.

Another irrational conclusion from alwight. As was pointed out to you, just because common descent is wrong doesn't mean you have to believe in the creator of the bible.

Just another bald assertion of wrongness Yorzhik? We never established that, while I didn't mention the Bible. I refer to any such ancient scripture and supernatural assertions that apparently so conveniently lie beyond the reach of science to put to the test.
The point here however is that without a rational explanation for the origin of species, and you certainly haven't provided any naturalistic rational alternative, that rather leaves us with a miraculous creation, right? This is imo your real a priori objective and why scientific consensus is deemed wrong by you without any consideration.

I already knew your opinion of common descent Yorzhik which you have obviously dismissed a priori, without any heed to scientific conclusions nor indeed peer reviewed consensus.

Quite wrong. I believed in common descent until I looked at the evidence.

So you say, though I'm not really convinced about your past belief or in somehow seeing the light, but clearly you currently do dogmatically reject any current scientific consensus.

 

[TheDuke]

Quite wrong. I believed in common descent until I looked at the evidence.

Would you do us the favour and point to that evidence?

 

[MichaelCadry]

Look at that verse you quoted and it is clearly speaking of HUMAN DEATH. To that point, no human had died.

It is not addressing animal death, or death in general, but addressing the thing God told A&E that in the day they eat it they would surely die.

I bet you do not even know whether God was referring here to the first death (which is like a sleep) or the second death (which is permanent).

Dear iouae,

No, there was no animal death up until the time Adam and Eve ate the fruit {not necessarily an apple}. There was no death, and life had barely sprung forth. Adam and Eve, and the animals were all seed and plant eaters, etc. God said the animals, and Adam and Eve, ate the plants and fruit of the Garden. The lions & wolves didn't eat animals, etc. They ate vegetation.

What is permanent about the second death is that God shall cause the sea, and death, and Hell, to deliver up all who is in them, and they will be judged according to their works. So many that were in Hell can go to Heaven, because their sins were nothing compared to what we've done or what others will do in the lands of Gog and Magog, before the second death. Oh well, this is all new stuff and under wraps, so I won't predict anything that isn't written.

God Loves Those Who Seek Him Out!!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :guitar:
​

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear Hedshaker,

It is no sick story. It is a prelude to teaching remaining humans to love God more than everything and anyone, putting Him FIRST in your life, for you will face much harder testing in Hell from the devil, Satan. You don't know the half of what you speak. The 'sick story' was to show people how to remain loyal and also trust God with all thy heart, soul, and mind. You know that I know that God was not going to let Abraham kill his son, right?? And why did God just happen to have a ram with it's horns stuck in a bush/thicket, or whatever, for an offering instead? The story is one of a Greater Love of God than of one another, even your firstborn children. God wanted to teach all of the people who came afterward and read this story, a simple, IMPORTANT, lesson. And He did do that, despite some who don't see the forest from the trees. Don't get upset for me at any of my words to you, Hedshaker. You know I care about you and I'm not trying to cause you a problem at all. It's just that you always want to see God as an ominous Spirit. Our God is a LOVING God, full of TENDER MERCIES, and He is Holy and Wise, and Giving, and Forgiving, and Understanding, and He loves you even more than your mother could!! You DON'T know my God. Many or most of the things that are written in the Bible are done to be made as an Example for future people to live and forgive, and of course, LOVE!! Even Jesus and His Life's Story are for other people to know how to live, and carry themselves, and die, and live again.

Yes Michael, what you describe is a well understood and documented condition called: Stockholm syndrome


It is indeed a horribly sick and depraved story, as is the one about the bears sent by God to attack a group of children for the dreadful crime of calling a Prophet "baldy". I guess those kids had it coming, eh? Meh! He's God he can do whatever he wants, right?

I would like to say I understand your opinion but I really don't. It takes a very weird and deluded mind to mistake cruelty for love. Same with those black slaves who wouldn't hear a word against their cruel masters. Remember them? They were collectively called Uncle Tom!

Still, I guess it's all academic really since there isn't a smigin of truth to any of it.

:thumb:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Yes Michael, what you describe is a well understood and documented condition called: Stockholm syndrome


It is indeed a horribly sick and depraved story, as is the one about the bears sent by God to attack a group of children for the dreadful crime of calling a Prophet "baldy". I guess those kids had it coming, eh? Meh! He's God he can do whatever he wants, right?

I would like to say I understand your opinion but I really don't. It takes a very weird and deluded mind to mistake cruelty for love. Same with those black slaves who wouldn't hear a word against their cruel masters. Remember them? They were collectively called Uncle Tom!

Still, I guess it's all academic really since there isn't a smigin of truth to any of it.

:thumb:

Dear Hedshaker,

No, it's not Stockholm Syndrome. Cruelty was meant towards the prophet by the children, so they received cruelty as their punishment. At the expense of some, everyone who lives after knowing or reading this story realizes that it is not well with God to treat a Prophet terribly, or dismiss him, either. God protects His prophets. He is all they have. The children should have known better. I suppose it is how so many of them were raised. Baloney. They were just being cruel, so they got cruel back at them. Don't mess with God!! Or His prophets. That is the message of this experience. You just don't like that it happened because you'd rather believe whatever floats your Ark. Who knows, HS? You really should spend as much time as supporting God than spending it to discredit Him and speak blasphemy against Him and His prophets, and people.

Ciao!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear alwight,

Hey!! Good to see you on a Saturday night!! Life is pretty good. I'm not pleased with these relentless radiation trips to the oncologist. I've got 3 more weeks to go. I will have a new radiation therapist though. The girl that was there got promoted to a more prestigious building in a more expensive suburb of the city. I'm glad for her. It will be a welcome change of pace and most likely, fun.

Well, you should post a lot more often. You seem to post only once or twice a day. I suppose the is good, eh? I post here 5-10 times a day usually. So noguru is back, eh? Cool!! He was gone so long. I wish him the best!!

Well, alwight, it is almost 3:30 a.m. here and I am sleepy to say the least. You keep up the good work and your health, and I will chat with you again soon!! You're a good egg!!

Blimey and Cheerio, Matey!!

Michael

{P.S.: I don't know what Blimey means! LOL!}

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear Hedshaker,

No, it's not Stockholm Syndrom. Cruelty was meant towards the prophet by the children, so they received cruelty as their punishment. At the expense of some, everyone who lives after knowing or reading this story realizes that it is not well with God to treat a Prophet terribly, or dismiss him, either. God protects His prophets. He is all they have. The children should have known better. I suppose it is how so many of them were raised. Baloney. They were just being cruel, so they got cruel back at them. Don't mess with God!! Or His prophets. That is the message of this experience. You just don't like that it happened because you'd rather believe whatever floats your Ark. Who knows, HS? You really should spend as much time as supporting God than spending it to discredit Him and speak blasphemy against Him and His prophets, and people.

Dear Uncle Tom,

Yeah, because calling someone baldy is really deserving of being ripped apart by bears. I mean, how cruel is it to call someone baldy. That poor, poor Prophet.

After being ripped apart by bears those children should be put in prison for 50 years each. The dreadful crime of calling that poor Prophet baldy is just shocking....... </sarcasm>

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

Hey!! Good to see you on a Saturday night!! Life is pretty good. I'm not pleased with these relentless radiation trips to the oncologist. I've got 3 more weeks to go. I will have a new radiation therapist though. The girl that was there got promoted to a more prestigious building in a more expensive suburb of the city. I'm glad for her. It will be a welcome change of pace and most likely, fun.

Well, you should post a lot more often. You seem to post only once or twice a day. I suppose the is good, eh? I post here 5-10 times a day usually. So noguru is back, eh? Cool!! He was gone so long. I wish him the best!!

Hi Michael, it's Sunday morning here you know. There is a saying that it often shows a good command of the English language to say nothing.lain:
As you know I'm in the middle of chemotherapy myself so I have other things to think about right now. Radiation therapy seems like hard going which with luck I won't need but I wish you all the luck in the world.

Well, alwight, it is almost 3:30 a.m. here and I am sleepy to say the least. You keep up the good work and your health, and I will chat with you again soon!! You're a good egg!!

Blimey and Cheerio, Matey!!

Michael

{P.S.: I don't know what Blimey means! LOL!}

Thanks Michael.
BTW I've told you a couple of time about "Blimey" (derived from "God blind me" if I'm wrong)

 

[Caino]

Evolutionists were wrong about Neandertal culture.
Evolutionists were wrong about Neandertal speech capabilities.
Evolutionists were wrong about the Neandertal diet.
Evolutionists were wrong about Neandertal posture.
Evolutionists were wrong about Neandertal intelligence.
Evolutionists were wrong about Neandertal species EVEN.
So, lets just say its a given evolutionists are also wrong about the dates

Science corrects itself when the evidence forces it to overturn what were unproven theories. Religion is a stubborn and proud institution which continues to deny reality in the face of these scientific discoveries. (The Hebrew authors of scripture made no claim of divine authorship of their books).

BTW, the UB reveled things about the Neanderthals in 1955 that science had not yet discovered or proven. We in the UB community have known that Neanderthals were much more advanced, widespread AND mixed with humans before genetic research bore this out.

 

[6days]

(The Hebrew authors of scripture made no claim of divine authorship of their books).

Caino.... you are wrong.
I'm not sure there is any point discussing it with you because you pick and choose what to believe from scripture. But in any case, the OT authors DID claim divine authorship hundreds of times. Besides that NT authors claimed the OT was God breathed scripture. And....Jesus Himself used the OT as His source of absolute truth.

 

[6days]

Would you do us the favour and point to that evidence?

Hey Duke....Your question was not to me, but can I do you the favor?
The evidence is everything and everywhere.
There is evidence of our Creator in the universe....in life..... in DNA...in love.....in a Baby's laugh....and in His Word.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 

[alwight]

And....Jesus Himself used the OT as His source of absolute truth.

According to you and whoever wrote the gospels perhaps.

 

[iouae]

Dear iouae,

No, there was no animal death up until the time Adam and Eve ate the fruit {not necessarily an apple}. There was no death, and life had barely sprung forth. Adam and Eve, and the animals were all seed and plant eaters, etc. God said the animals, and Adam and Eve, ate the plants and fruit of the Garden. The lions & wolves didn't eat animals, etc. They ate vegetation.

What is permanent about the second death is that God shall cause the sea, and death, and Hell, to deliver up all who is in them, and they will be judged according to their works. So many that were in Hell can go to Heaven, because their sins were nothing compared to what we've done or what others will do in the lands of Gog and Magog, before the second death. Oh well, this is all new stuff and under wraps, so I won't predict anything that isn't written.

God Loves Those Who Seek Him Out!!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :guitar:
​

Hi Michael

A lot of dinosaurs lived between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2.
6days is mistaken that Noah tried to take dinosaurs onto the ark.
Dinosaurs lived and died before Adam and Eve, and they had big appetites for meat.

Paul was addressing human death as entering the world through sin.

Cheers

 

[6days]

According to you and whoever wrote the gospels perhaps.

Yes..... Correct.
Jesus and the NT authors claimed the OT was God breathed scripture.