Creation vs. Evolution

[Jonahdog]

Lets imagine you have never seen a dog but in the fossil record you find a bulldog, a poodle, a weiner dog and a great dane. Can you tell from the bones that they are the same species? *NO! Can we tell from the bones of modern birds that they are the same species as those in the fossil record? No!

A Great Dane with a T. rex? Wow. After all that must be the point of your post. Citation please.

 

[Jonahdog]

Genetics.*
And
God's Word.

I know you have little understanding of genetics, perhaps your knowledge of your god's word is faulty as well.

 

[Yorzhik]

No, you do, you are a closed mind to scientific rationality as even being an indicator of where the truth may reasonably exist.

That's a serious claim. Got anything to back it up? The evidence is on my side, and I am opened to scientific rationality - but I don't necessarily follow consensus unless it is, in turn, following the evidence.

As for common descent please do explain how you have falsified it and why the scientific consensus seems to disregard it so easily? Conspiracy?

The evidence falsifies common descent. Scientists are human, and realize that supporting evolution requires almost no cost on their part to believe, but exacts a high price to not give it at least lip service even if there job has nothing to do with it (and note, unless your job is that of an Evolutionary Biologist, there is almost no job that has anything to do with evolution because it is so freaking backward as an idea).

As above.

I made no assertion about any particular evidence against common descent. Feel free to find any such assertion and where I didn't follow it up with evidence.

Just another bald assertion of wrongness Yorzhik? We never established that, while I didn't mention the Bible. I refer to any such ancient scripture and supernatural assertions that apparently so conveniently lie beyond the reach of science to put to the test.
The point here however is that without a rational explanation for the origin of species, and you certainly haven't provided any naturalistic rational alternative, that rather leaves us with a miraculous creation, right? This is imo your real a priori objective and why scientific consensus is deemed wrong by you without any consideration.

You are wrong again. Go ahead and add all the non-natural origins stories, it still doesn't mean any of them are true because the evidence is against common descent. What this shows is two things. First, you only believe in common descent because of fear of some supernatural boogieman. And secondly, since I consider the evidence before consensus like a rational person, that you by your own projection are admitting to being irrational at least on this topic.

So you say, though I'm not really convinced about your past belief or in somehow seeing the light, but clearly you currently do dogmatically reject any current scientific consensus.

Since I reject the current consensus because of evidence, it would mean by definition that I don't reject it dogmatically.

 

[Yorzhik]

Would you do us the favour and point to that evidence?

Sorry Duke, but you are just a "common descent meme generator" so you'll have to look up all my old posts on the subject and read them.

 

[6days]

Lets imagine you have never seen a dog but in the fossil record you find a bulldog, a poodle, a weiner dog and a great dane. Can you tell from the bones that they are the same species? NO! Can we tell from the bones of modern birds that they are the same species as those in the fossil record? No!

A Great Dane with a T. rex? Wow. After all that must be the point of your post. Citation please.

Awwwww Jonah.... we know you try your hardest to be logical. Are you suggesting that someone might confuse a great dane as being the same species as a T-rex? Or are you just off topic? *

 

[Jonahdog]

Awwwww Jonah.... we know you try your hardest to be logical. Are you suggesting that someone might confuse a great dane as being the same species as a T-rex? Or are you just off topic? *

Goodness, no. I was just trying to follow your logic. When you can show me a canine lurking with T. rex fossils maybe, just maybe, your posts would be worthwhile paying attention to.

 

[6days]

Goodness, no. I was just trying to follow your logic.

Well thanks for trying Jonah, but you were more than a wee bit off topic.

 

[Jonahdog]

Well thanks for trying Jonah, but you were more than a wee bit off topic.

I think not. Bottom line is that your analogy was ignorant. But you knew that.

 

[6days]

I think not. Bottom line is that your analogy was ignorant. But you knew that.

You likely should try read a comment before you reply. Your reply had nothing to do with the current discussion. But... as said before... its nice that you at least tried to understand.

 

[pebbleanrock]

1 Cor14:33 "God is not the author of confusion." so this entire thread is seeded for us by satan. Step back a moment and (1 Thes 5:21)'Test all things' and the Spirit will tell you 'God created the universe in 13.64 billion years.'Rms 8:29 talks about predestination which would place the egg/chicken-cell mysteries at the correct time in history. Don't forget ALL things existed as a possibility before their actuality. I forget where God joked [to Man], 'Will you make something new?'

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Uncle Tom,

Yeah, because calling someone baldy is really deserving of being ripped apart by bears. I mean, how cruel is it to call someone baldy. That poor, poor Prophet.

After being ripped apart by bears those children should be put in prison for 50 years each. The dreadful crime of calling that poor Prophet baldy is just shocking....... </sarcasm>

Dear Uncle Dick!

It was done to be a sore lesson for others. Do you think Jesus dying on the Cross wasn't cruel either? God did it for us. But you know nothing about that cruelty, how people who weren't Christian, chided and crucified God's Son. That is the cruelty of man against God. The same as the 42 children against the man of God/Prophet of God {Elijah}. You know NOTHING of how it all works, Hedshaker. Heck, you barely know the basics, much less grittier occurrences. So I think that those who killed the man of God/Jesus did not learn from the 42 children who were mauled not to mess with a man of God/Elijah. You just don't get it, do you? Tell me you understand?

Bye Hedshaker!! With Much Love, In Christ,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael, it's Sunday morning here you know. There is a saying that it often shows a good command of the English language to say nothing.lain:
As you know I'm in the middle of chemotherapy myself so I have other things to think about right now. Radiation therapy seems like hard going which with luck I won't need but I wish you all the luck in the world.


Thanks Michael.
BTW I've told you a couple of time about "Blimey" (derived from "God blind me" if I'm wrong)

Dear alwight,

I feel more sorry for you having to go through chemotherapy. Seems to be difficult indeed. So Blimey means "God blind me?" What the heck is that about? I don't understand it as an adjective. It's okay. I don't think I will include it in my vocabulary. It sounds like it's not very nice. I will use "Bloke" instead, and I barely know what that means neither. I do know what Cheerio means, and I don't know if there is such a word as "Matey," but it seems okay. I wish I could hear your accent on the phone!! That would be so awesome!! I know that you and Hedshaker must have one. I like the British accent. Diana Rigg had one. She lived in Stratford upon Avon. I guess you have to have some money to live there, eh? Well, will get going for now. Hope you have a wonderful day today!!

Much Love Coming At You!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

So I guess that the answer here is Creation batting 1,000 and evolution batting 100. Nice try! Finally, the time has come. It's useless trying to keep infusing evolution, when it is not true. But, we creationists will have to keep up a relentless army against evolutionists, because they never know when they are beaten. Ay carumba!! Study the Bible instead of your science books, as far as evolution goes. God created man and apes separately. When will it sink in???!!!

Much Love, In Christ,

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :rapture: :guitar: :singer:
​

 

[gcthomas]

Lets imagine you have never seen a dog but in the fossil record you find a bulldog, a poodle, a weiner dog and a great dane. Can you tell from the bones that they are the same species? *NO! Can we tell from the bones of modern birds that they are the same species as those in the fossil record? No!

Are there ANY dog bones, of any sort, in the fossil record alongside dinosaurs? Why not?

 

[alwight]

No, you do, you are a closed mind to scientific rationality as even being an indicator of where the truth may reasonably exist.

That's a serious claim. Got anything to back it up? The evidence is on my side, and I am opened to scientific rationality - but I don't necessarily follow consensus unless it is, in turn, following the evidence.

My opinion is based on your own expressed rejection of scientific consensus being a reasonable indicator of reality.

As for common descent please do explain how you have falsified it and why the scientific consensus seems to disregard it so easily? Conspiracy?

The evidence falsifies common descent. Scientists are human, and realize that supporting evolution requires almost no cost on their part to believe, but exacts a high price to not give it at least lip service even if there job has nothing to do with it (and note, unless your job is that of an Evolutionary Biologist, there is almost no job that has anything to do with evolution because it is so freaking backward as an idea).

Oh please, be honest, you are compelled to reject common descent, and evolutionary biology too it seems, only because your creationist version of God requires it, not because you somehow demonstrably know better than a whole world of dishonest cringing cowardly conspiring scientists with mortgages to pay.

As above.

I made no assertion about any particular evidence against common descent. Feel free to find any such assertion and where I didn't follow it up with evidence.

I'm sure you would like me to go off to pick through the shabby ruins of your previous assertions and half baked nonsense Yorzhik but imo the truth is far more likely to match the current scientific consensus than any of that. You may try to pontificate about the second law of thermodynamics and entropy increasing or Shannon's theory but the truth is that you can't even explain the geological column and fossilisation sequences or indeed the DNA evidence such as ERVs.

Just another bald assertion of wrongness Yorzhik? We never established that, while I didn't mention the Bible. I refer to any such ancient scripture and supernatural assertions that apparently so conveniently lie beyond the reach of science to put to the test.
The point here however is that without a rational explanation for the origin of species, and you certainly haven't provided any naturalistic rational alternative, that rather leaves us with a miraculous creation, right? This is imo your real a priori objective and why scientific consensus is deemed wrong by you without any consideration.

You are wrong again. Go ahead and add all the non-natural origins stories, it still doesn't mean any of them are true because the evidence is against common descent. What this shows is two things. First, you only believe in common descent because of fear of some supernatural boogieman. And secondly, since I consider the evidence before consensus like a rational person, that you by your own projection are admitting to being irrational at least on this topic.

So I am driven by the "fear of some supernatural boogieman" apparently, not that I'd rather like to know what actually is true, of course.
Show me that fully formed complex species have ever suddenly been created as is, then we might be able to disregard all naturalistic explanations and scientific consensus in favour of our preferred "boogieman" as you do.

So you say, though I'm not really convinced about your past belief or in somehow seeing the light, but clearly you currently do dogmatically reject any current scientific consensus.

Since I reject the current consensus because of evidence, it would mean by definition that I don't reject it dogmatically.

If you have falsified common descent, rather than perhaps employing the smoke and mirrors approach, then you would have us believe that somewhere in all your previous posts lies that great truth that I and more worthy others are all so eager to ignore, often even by those who already do have a favourite "boogieman". lain:

 

[Caino]

Dear All,

So I guess that the answer here is Creation batting 1,000 and evolution batting 100. Nice try! Finally, the time has come. It's useless trying to keep infusing evolution, when it is not true. But, we creationists will have to keep up a relentless army against evolutionists, because they never know when they are beaten. Ay carumba!! Study the Bible instead of your science books, as far as evolution goes. God created man and apes separately. When will it sink in???!!!

Much Love, In Christ,

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :rapture: :guitar: :singer:
​

Ignorance and beligerant denial is winning on this thread while the original gospel of Jesus is pushed further away by young earth clowns!

We need to rescue Jesus from biblical idolatry!

 

[Cross Reference]

Dear All,

It says that God created the Universe, Heaven and Earth, the host of heaven, etc. "And God called the light Day and the darkness Night. And the evening and the morning were the "1st Day". "And God separated and divided the waters which were above and the waters on Earth, and He created the firmament (Heaven). And that was the second day.

And it goes on further to say that that God created the Earth and Seas; plants and trees. And the evening and the morning were the third day. And in the fourth day, God made the hosts of Heaven, tons of angels and servants (helpers), including the Sun and the Moon, all on one day. And the planets, etc. And Orion and the Big Dipper, so they could be used for signs and for seasons, for days and for years.

Then it says that on the fifth day, God created great whales and everything in the seas, and He brought forth fowl from the waters to fly in the firmament. And this was alot of work. But for God to create all of that in 24 hours, no big deal. Then, in the sixth day, God created all of the creatures of the Earth, beasts, cattle, mastodons, elephants, beasts, dinosaurs {Ty Rex, Brontosaurus, raptors, etc. Even alligators, crocodiles, tortoises and turtle, armadillo, dinosaurs}. I know much more than these. And all of the creeping critters, and bugs {roaches, millipedes, centipedes, etc}. Then God created Man and then Woman. And all of this was done during the sixth day. Now, God said all He has to do is speak what He wants to envision and that it does not come back to Him Undone. I will find that quote for you soon. That He just gives the word and it is. He is the Master Chemist don't forget. He is Grand and Great, and Omnipotent, and Full Of Love To Give For Those Who Want It. But as loving as He is, yes He has also had to create a bottomless pit in the center of the earth. It has a center and a top (because of gravity) but no bottom, figuratively. It also has hot magma and lava and is Hell. The Lake of Fire is our Sun. And once our Sun burns out, God will provide another sun for the devil to burn in. Now, He does all of these things because He knows what the future would bring, and that man can not help but fall, because they are no match for the devil, Satan. That's why we're having a time now of learning how to choose good from evil, and keeping the good or keeping the evil, or some of both, which makes us have certain personalities.

Okay, you must realize that when God created Adam, that was roughly back 7 or 8 thousand years? Now when God created Adam, he did not create him as an infant, but instead as a man. Also God did not create a young Universe and planet Earth, or Our Sun and Moon. Instead He created them older. Same with the creatures, cattle, fowl, beasts, creeping things, etc. He did not make eggs, He made already mature bugs, and same with cattle, fowl, etc. You cannot expect that God took more than 6 days to create everything. Okay, am going to get going. This will become my OP on my Creation vs. Evolution thread. It's long overdue. It's a lot easier to explain, too. These things found in amber, etc., must only truly be 7 or 8,000 years. They just look aged for our sakes. OK, will close for now. God Bestow A Big Kiss On Your Foreheads!!

Michael

The Lord God has wiped the earth clean before and He will do it nearly again, leaving a third of the Earth's people this time. Remember Noah and his wife, of whom we are all descended from, therefore we are ALL Brothers and Sisters, who don't get along well. Ishmael is the ancestor of all of the Arab people. I hope I've explained this well enough for now. If God decides to wipe us all off of the earth for sin, who would wonder why? Look at this earth and tell me what shape it is in? What are you going to do about it?? Forget your Evolution idea!! There is a Higher Power that oversees every little change in every creature He forms. Every nucleus, atom, genome, DNA, electron, etc. That's all, just for now. Re-read and study, and look in your Bibles. Things are happening that you don't know about yet. But the time is upon us.

May the Lord God Continue to Bless the Lord Jesus,

{For the 'Lord' God said to MY 'Lord' Jesus; Sit thou at my right hand until I make thy enemies thy footstool.}

He is doing just that. Can you understand any of this?? Please, if you have any comments, keep them civil and maybe kind? I'm trying here. My main message is that Jesus is Returning Soon. I am now a YEC (Young Earth Creationist) and have changed some parts of my message here.

Praise His Greatness and His Intense Imagination, Which Is An Incredible Amazing Thing!!!

"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Peter 3:3-7 (KJV) This surely reconciles the Bible with science!

 

[TheDuke]

Sorry Duke, but you are just a "common descent meme generator" so you'll have to look up all my old posts on the subject and read them.

what is a "common descent meme generator"?

Is it really that difficult to at least link me to one single relevant post...

 

[TheDuke]

Here is a link to a site stating that some birds were contemporaries with dinosaurs.

http://www.natureworldnews.com/arti...t-ancient-birds-flew-over-heads-dinosaurs.htm

Well, you see, that's hardly surprising since birds ARE dinosaurs.
If only you knew a bit more science....

 

[Cross Reference]

Well, you see, that's hardly surprising since birds ARE dinosaurs.
If only you knew a bit more science....

Where's the missing link?