Creation vs. Evolution

[iouae]

Does that include the biological structures and biochemical pathways that allow pathogens, parasites, and a host of other nasty things to make us suffer and/or kill us?

You believe God deliberately and intentionally made them that way?

Why do men suffer?

One cannot blame it on Satan. Even things which Satan is allowed to do are with permission of God. God is responsible for the good and the bad.

And its not man’s fallen nature which is responsible for the problems either. God created the thorns and cursed the land. And animals have been eating each other since the Cambrian. Diseases have probably been killing off the weak since pre-history.

We can cause some of our own problems through stupidity. The movie “Jackass” comes to mind.

God makes no claim to fairness either. All men are not created equal. Some are born talented and beautiful, and others not so lucky.

Time and chance happen to all. Turns out God does play dice.

And God is not opposed to suffering. Why would He send His Son to die an agonising death if God’s priority was to have no suffering in the world?

And nothing is predestined either as the Calvinists wrongly believe. So fate cannot be blamed either.

If God had created a perfect world where it was impossible to need anything, then why would anyone need God?

God’s priority is to give people life and freedom to choose. Try designing a world where mortals have freedom of choice and no chance of hurting themselves. The world would look like a padded cell, with a person in a strait-jacket. Instead, God created a world with sharp edges, hot and cold, poisons, stinging plants and animals, edges one can fall off, rocks which can fall and crush us.

People are like fish to God. If one dies, He has more. God created an excess of humans, knowing that many would reject him. For God, it’s a game of odds.

For those who do choose Him, the rules change. They become HIS fish. Only now do they gain intrinsic value. He promises to watch over them. This does not mean that time and chance are suspended. Bad things can still happen to good people. The worst that can happen is death, and God has power over this even, to resurrect his saints.

It is a requirement of believers to develop faith. This means not falling apart and losing faith when bad things happen to them. For all eternity, God will send us places we might have second thoughts about going. That is why faith is a prerequisite to eternal life. We will not balk at His command, but go with trust in his watching over us.

Where did God ever promise a perfect world? Show me the place in the book of rules. But we do live in an extremely benevolent world where 99% of the time we are neither hungry nor in pain. The people born in the worst places are generally the last to complain too. When the smallest misfortune comes upon us we cry “Why me Lord?”. In the 99% good times we never question “Why me Lord” when He blesses us.

This is not to trivialise any person’s suffering.

This is a beautiful world and we do not deserve one bit of good that we get. Every thing that brings pleasure is God’s grace. And for those who have trials, God promises His people that they will never be tempted above what they are able to bear. God will reduce the trial, or strengthen His believer, one or the other. For the uncalled, they take their chances, and God owes them nothing.

Yet God’s ultimate goal is to create us needy. Only then will we come to Him for help. Later He will give us a perfect world where all tears will be wiped away.

 

[Jose Fly]

Is that a long way of saying "Yep, God definitely created the smallpox virus, the malaria parasite, ebola, and all the other terrible pathogens that haunt our existence"?

 

[iouae]

Is that a long way of saying "Yep, God definitely created the smallpox virus, the malaria parasite, ebola, and all the other terrible pathogens that haunt our existence"?

It's quite funny to listen to sissies moan about their perfect existence, giving no thanks to God, yet so quick to point to all those "terrible pathogens" and blame God. What hypocrisy to refuse to give credit for the 99% blessings yet be so quick to point to the things "which haunt OUR [my foot] existence".

 

[Stuu]

those "terrible pathogens" and blame God.

From the Holy Wikipedia:

Dracunculiasis, also called guinea worm disease (GWD), is an infection by the guinea worm. A person becomes infected when they drink water that contains water fleas infected with guinea worm larvae. Initially there are no symptoms. About one year later, the person develops a painful burning feeling as the female worm forms a blister in the skin, usually on the lower limb. The worm then comes out of the skin over the course of a few weeks. During this time, it may be difficult to walk or work. It is very uncommon for the disease to cause death. Prevention is by early diagnosis of the disease followed by keeping the person from putting the wound in drinking water to decrease spread of the parasite. Other efforts include improving access to clean water and otherwise filtering water if it is not clean. Filtering through a cloth is often enough. Contaminated drinking water may be treated with a chemical called temefos to kill the larva. There is no medication or vaccine against the disease. The worm may be slowly removed over a few weeks by rolling it over a stick. The ulcers formed by the emerging worm may get infected by bacteria. Pain may continue for months after the worm has been removed. In 2014 there were 126 cases of the disease reported. This is down from 3.5 million cases in 1986. It only exists in 4 countries in Africa, down from 20 countries in the 1980s. The country most affected is South Sudan. It will likely be the first parasitic disease to be globally eradicated. Guinea worm disease has been known since ancient times. It is mentioned in the Egyptian medical Ebers Papyrus, dating from 1550 BC. The name dracunculiasis is derived from the Latin "affliction with little dragons"

In short, the Guinea worm causes intense burning pain as it breaks out of the skin, pain that is slightly relieved by holding the affected leg in water, into which the parasite releases the next generation of worms.

As a believer in nonsense, your job for us rationalists is at least to be entertaining. So, could you kindly humour us by speculating on what part the Guinea worm plays in your god's plan?

Of course if scripture was divinely inspired, you would think that some basic advice from a god on dealing with parasites or avoiding them would have really made people read the book. Wouldn't that have been a useful thing?

It looks like we might have just about eradicated Guinea worm, apparently without much help from your god, and possibly defeating your god's purpose in having made the worm in the first place. Humans 1 : Gods 0.


Charles Darwin might not have turned away from christianity had he not seen the effects of parasites in action:

I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have designedly created parasitic wasps with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of Caterpillars.

So isn't your god rather shooting itself in the foot by making parasites that cause people to doubt that god's existence?

Stuart

 

[6days]

Merry Christmas to all the creationists and science lovers !!

And...a happy new year also.

 

[6days]

I don't believe creationists are any more "a priori" in their beliefs than evolutionists are. Creationists "a priori" see God's hand in everything, and any science which comes along, we say "Cool, God, you made all this possible - How great thou art".

Evolutionists "a priori" have excluded God's hand from everything, and any science which comes along, they say "Cool, gods of Dumb Luck, you made all this possible - How great thou art".

True.....well said.
Most evolutionists are committed to materialism even when the evidence leads to our Creator.

 

[Stuu]

True.....well said.
Most evolutionists are committed to materialism even when the evidence leads to our Creator.

If there was any material evidence leading to your creator concept then that would have to count as part of materialistic science, and your creator would become part of that science.

But there isn't any unambiguous evidence of any kind for the creator you have in mind.

None.

It's just a conspiracy theory in your own mind.

Stuart

 

[6days]

... that's what "evolutionists" do: they create strawmen and move goalposts

No all..... some are able to put forward good and logical arguements.

 

[Hedshaker]

No all..... some are able to put forward good and logical arguements.

Come on 6, you know full well no one spews out straw man snippets more than yourself. Apparently, atheists believe "nothing created everything". Remember that little humdinger? You should. You've said it often enough.


.......Happy New Year everyone........ :cheers:

 

[Greg Jennings]

No all..... some are able to put forward good and logical arguements.

If that's true, then why every time I or one of my "evolutionist" comrades here throw some good and logical arguments backed with scientific data out for you, do you scream "strawman" and "move the goalposts" so loud that I can hear you through my smartphone

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, as I have tried to explain to you before chimps are modern creatures, just as we are, they have no evolutionary reason at all to be anything other than chimps or to keep evolving as chimps. If chimps ever morphed into humans then that would require divine intervention not Darwinian evolution.
Humans and chimps clearly and evidentially did once share a common ancestor a long time ago. From this common ancestor both humans and chimps gradually evolved and went their separate ways and have become two separate species. Chimps will never evolve or morph into humans nor will humans morph into chimps.

I realise that you really don't understand how it is supposed to work and the science, that you perhaps don't want to know and that you have simply chosen to adopt or be suckered by all the YEC nonsense and its silly misconceptions of a miraculous creation a few months ago rather than try to understand natural reality as it actually is.

However, merry Christmas Michael. :cheers:

Dear alwight,

With all the chimps out there or apes, not any of them are in their own process of changing. It makes no sense that there would be some still in the process of evolving, right. The same with other animals. They didn't just change in 'the olden days.' Many should be in the process of evolving still. We should see that happening. I guess I cannot explain it to you well enough and you will not change your mind anyway. We agree on a lot of things, but sometimes not.

Much Love & Best Wishes,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hey Michael...*

Alwight said this to you "Glen Morton used to be a YEC, he is still a Christian but his explanation of his own situation and his YEC demon are worth reading about if you haven't already done so."


Glen Morton provides a good example of why we as Christians need to take God's Word as absolute truth....rather than secular and atheist opinions. Here is a little story you may find interesting on Morton*Glen Morton used to be a YEC, he is still a Christian but his explanation of his own situation and his YEC demon are worth reading about if you haven't already done so.

https://www.icr.org/article/3132/


Also...to provide balance John Sanford used to be an atheist professor of genetics who says he breathed evolutionism. He slowly came to realize his belief in millions of years was not consistent with the evidence. This is a good read (Darwinian Evolution is Impossible) about him, if you haven't already done so.
http://creation.mobi/geneticist-evolution-impossible

Merry Christmas to Michael and Alwight

Dear 6days,

Thanks for the heads-up!! It could be that most of the dinosaurs could not fit in the Ark, nor be easy to feed and clean up after. I can't see Noah taking in a pterodactyl or brontosaurus, much less a T-Rex. Hey, I hope you had a wonderful Christmas, 6days!! Thanks for your feelings!

Much Love, In Jesus Christ,

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9: :cloud9:
​

 

[6days]

If that's true, then why every time I or one of my "evolutionist" comrades here throw some good and logical arguments backed with scientific data out for you, do you scream "strawman" and "move the goalposts" so loud that I can hear you through my smartphone

DavisBJ, alwight and others often make good and logical arguments. You however, at least on this occasion were illogical and misrepresented something. And now you seem to want to dwell on it?
If you want to honestly represent someone elses argument, then counter it with logic and science.... great!

 

[Greg Jennings]

DavisBJ, alwight and others often make good and logical arguments. You however, at least on this occasion were illogical and misrepresented something. And now you seem to want to dwell on it?
If you want to honestly represent someone elses argument, then counter it with logic and science.... great!

6, all I want is for you to admit that there are huge logical gaps in your "theory" that aren't present in evolutionary theory.

 

[6days]

It could be that most of the dinosaurs could not fit in the Ark, nor be easy to feed and clean up after

How much room would 2 juvenile trex's take? The ark was plenty big. Imagine watching 550 rail cars going sliwly across the road while you wait. That would be the approximate capacity of the ark.

 

[Greg Jennings]

How much room would 2 juvenile trex's take? The ark was plenty big. Imagine watching 550 rail cars going sliwly across the road while you wait. That would be the approximate capacity of the ark.

Well what about two juvenile Tyrannosaurus Rex, plus two juvenile brachiosaurus, two juvenile stegosaurs, two juvenile allosaurus, two juvenile ceratosaurs, two juvenile ankylosaurs, two juvenile saltosaurs, two juvenile triceratops, two juvenile pachycephalosaurs, two juvenile diplodocus, two juvenile spinosaurus egypticus's, two juvenile baryonyx, two juvenile megalosaurs, two juvenile mega raptors, two juvenile apatosaurs, two juvenile edmontosaurs, two juvenile iguanodon, two juvenile parasaurolophus, two juvenile gallimimus.......

Have I illustrated my point?

 

[6days]

6, all I want is for you to admit that there are huge logical gaps in your "theory" .

Greg... Biblical creation is a BELIEF which is a better fit for the evidence than beliefs in chemical and stellar evolution. As well Biblical creation is a much better fit to the evidence than common descent beliefs.

 

[6days]

Well what about two juvenile Tyrannosaurus Rex, plus two juvenile brachiosaurus, two juvenile stegosaurs, two juvenile allosaurus, two juvenile ceratosaurs, two juvenile ankylosaurs, two juvenile saltosaurs, two juvenile triceratops, two juvenile pachycephalosaurs, two juvenile diplodocus, two juvenile spinosaurus egypticus's, two juvenile baryonyx, two juvenile megalosaurs, two juvenile mega raptors, two juvenile apatosaurs, two juvenile edmontosaurs, two juvenile iguanodon, two juvenile parasaurolophus, two juvenile gallimimus.......

Have I illustrated my point?

Sure... you resist God's Word and the best explanation to the evidence. BtW...Average size of mature dinosaur was likely about that of sheep. There was plenty of room for all the animals on the ark... including all those now extinct...and room for a few basketball courts with extra space.

 

[Greg Jennings]

Greg... Biblical creation is a BELIEF which is a better fit for the evidence than beliefs in chemical and stellar evolution. As well Biblical creation is a much better fit to the evidence than common descent beliefs.

Well obviously any theory that uses "I don't know, so God" as a crucial part of itself isn't a better fit than a theory that is supported by tangible evidence. But I'm glad to hear you know that creationism is simply a belief, and no more

 

[patrick jane]

Well obviously any theory that uses "I don't know, so God" as a crucial part of itself isn't a better fit than a theory that is supported by tangible evidence. But I'm glad to hear you know that creationism is simply a belief, and no more

Although it is a belief, creationism is fact. Without God there are no answers