Creation vs. Evolution

[iouae]

Okay I guess, but they were gonna return at some point. When you have an unspecified, unlimited amount of time before the end time in which the Jews can return, you can't really get that wrong.

According to Revelations the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed (in order for a new Temple to be built) before the end times come. How do you suppose that'll happen?

4th seal 1/4 earth dies or 1.8 billion.

Earth is in uproar and Man of Sin comes to power.

He pretends to be God returned to His temple.

Muslims have to Go.

Who can make war with the Beast Rev 13:4.

Beast or "Man of Sin" boots them off the Temple Mound.

Sets up an Image or idol.

5th seal - all Christians persecuted in The Great Tribulation.

For an Agnostic, I see you know a bit of Bible.

 

[iouae]

Are you telling me that bacteria evolving the ability to resist antibiotics isn't evolution? That isn't the experiment I was talking about, but it's sure as hell evolution. Do you think MRSA would exist if we hadn't forced Staphylococcus aureus to adapt in order to survive?

"DNA exchange
Bacteria readily swap bits of DNA among both related and unrelated species. Thus, antibiotic-resistant genes from one type of bacteria may be incorporated into other bacteria. As a result, using any one antibiotic to treat a bacterial infection may result in other kinds of bacteria developing resistance to that specific antibiotic, as well as to other types of antibiotics.
Rapid reproduction
Bacteria reproduce rapidly, sometimes in as little as 20 minutes. Therefore, it does not take long for the antibiotic-resistant bacteria to comprise a large proportion of a bacterial population."

http://health.mo.gov/safety/antibioticresistance/generalinfo.php

Bacteria, because they swap DNA between species, could be called one continually varying kind.

Yes there are different types of bacteria which stain different, and have your round, rod and spiral shapes, but swapping info and varying speedily is just variation.

And because I have studied this, I reject it as evolution.

 

[iouae]

Okay I guess, but they were gonna return at some point. When you have an unspecified, unlimited amount of time before the end time in which the Jews can return, you can't really get that wrong.

Name another nation that 2000 years later returns to a land they were chased off. It is a special event.

 

[alwight]

How long has Homo sapiens been around?
Let's say 200 000 years.

Why has your lion not evolved in the 13.8 billion years if in 200 000 years such smarties as us evolved?

I hope that's not too complex for you

:kookoo:

There is no necessity for anything to evolve a human kind of intelligence, Darwinian evolution only requires something be sufficiently well adapted to exist. Reaching a high level of intelligence is not some kind of evolutionary end game, it was just something that worked for us.

 

[Greg Jennings]

How long has Homo sapiens been around?
Let's say 200 000 years.

Why has your lion not evolved in the 13.8 billion years if in 200 000 years such smarties as us evolved?

I hope that's not too complex for you

Oh it's not. It's rather simple. Firstly, who knows when life began on the alien lion's planet? It could've been 13.7 billion years ago, or it could be been a few million. It's quite possible life hasn't been around long enough to even have a chance to develop highly intelligent critters.

Secondly, as I've told you before, evolution almost exclusively happens only in response to changing conditions, and always only happens if there is a need for said change. For humans, developing a complex, sophisticated brain was a necessity. They had no external weapons of consequence, so they needed to be smarter than their predators and prey in order to survive.
The alien lion has external weaponry and is a built killing machine (we're assuming it's pretty much like an Earth lion for simplicity's sake), so it has no need for a hyper-intelligent brain in order to evade or combat potential predators or to hunt flown prey.

 

[iouae]

:kookoo:

There is no necessity for anything to evolve a human kind of intelligence, Darwinian evolution only requires something be sufficiently well adapted to exist. Reaching a high level of intelligence is not some kind of evolutionary end game, it was just something that worked for us.

You are still playing the alien racist card calling all aliens dumber than us. Too dumb to beam a signal into space. Lets coin a new phrase - y'all are being earthling supremacists.

 

[Greg Jennings]

Name another nation that 2000 years later returns to a land they were chased off. It is a special event.

Great. That doesn't really affect what I said

 

[Greg Jennings]

"DNA exchange
Bacteria readily swap bits of DNA among both related and unrelated species. Thus, antibiotic-resistant genes from one type of bacteria may be incorporated into other bacteria. As a result, using any one antibiotic to treat a bacterial infection may result in other kinds of bacteria developing resistance to that specific antibiotic, as well as to other types of antibiotics.
Rapid reproduction
Bacteria reproduce rapidly, sometimes in as little as 20 minutes. Therefore, it does not take long for the antibiotic-resistant bacteria to comprise a large proportion of a bacterial population."

http://health.mo.gov/safety/antibioticresistance/generalinfo.php

Bacteria, because they swap DNA between species, could be called one continually varying kind.

Yes there are different types of bacteria which stain different, and have your round, rod and spiral shapes, but swapping info and varying speedily is just variation.

Yes, they can pick up little circles of DNA and incorporate them into their genome. That's actually an interesting part of the discovery of vaccines, but that's a story for another day. That doesn't change the fact that this isn't how MRSA and other resistances (at least the vast majority of them) developed. We know this because of experiments in labs, done by placing cultures onto petri dishes with four different antibiotic saucers equally spaced from each other. If left alone and given enough to feed on, sometimes a bacterial colony will grow to overtake the area where one (or sometimes all) antibiotic saucer is, even though the bacteria species involved is known to be vulnerable to the antibiotic. Why does this happen you ask? Because all of the individual bacteria that can't survive a given antibiotic die, leaving behind only the ones who happened to receive a mutation in their genome allowing them to resist the antibiotic. And since all of their non-resistant buddies are dead, only the resistant ones keep reproducing, until eventually the whole colony is resistant. Do this in the real world with many different types of antibiotics, and you have the monster that is modern MRSA

And because I have studied this, I reject it as evolution.

And because they've studied this way way more, microbiologists accept it

 

[iouae]

Okay I guess, but they were gonna return at some point. When you have an unspecified, unlimited amount of time before the end time in which the Jews can return, you can't really get that wrong.

I was forgetting that with "unspecified, unlimited amounts of time", all things are possible. All hail the gods of Dumb Luck.

 

[Greg Jennings]

4th seal 1/4 earth dies or 1.8 billion.

Earth is in uproar and Man of Sin comes to power.

He pretends to be God returned to His temple.

Muslims have to Go.

Who can make war with the Beast Rev 13:4.

Beast or "Man of Sin" boots them off the Temple Mound.

Sets up an Image or idol.

5th seal - all Christians persecuted in The Great Tribulation.

What I mean is how in the world would the Dome of the Rock possibly get destroyed? Do you realize how holy that place is to Muslims? They'd never let it be torn down. And Israel would never risk making their precarious position in that region even worse by destroying it without the consent of Muslims.

For an Agnostic, I see you know a bit of Bible.

I dabble

 

[Greg Jennings]

I was forgetting that with "unspecified, unlimited amounts of time", all things are possible. All hail the gods of Dumb Luck.

Yeah pretty much. It's like if I predict that Kuwait will someday be invaded again, and give you no timetable for it to happen. Whether it happens tomorrow or 10,000 years from now , and it will at some point, I'm correct. So I guess I'm a prophet

 

[iouae]

Yes, they can pick up little circles of DNA and incorporate them into their genome. That's actually an interesting part of the discovery of vaccines, but that's a story for another day. That doesn't change the fact that this isn't how MRSA and other resistances (at least the vast majority of them) developed. We know this because of experiments in labs, done by placing cultures onto petri dishes with four different antibiotic saucers equally spaced from each other. If left alone and given enough to feed on, sometimes a bacterial colony will grow to overtake the area where one (or sometimes all) antibiotic saucer is, even though the bacteria species involved is known to be vulnerable to the antibiotic. Why does this happen you ask? Because all of the individual bacteria that can't survive a given antibiotic die, leaving behind only the ones who happened to receive a mutation in their genome allowing them to resist the antibiotic. And since all of their non-resistant buddies are dead, only the resistant ones keep reproducing, until eventually the whole colony is resistant. Do this in the real world with many different types of antibiotics, and you have the monster that is modern MRSA


And because they've studied this way way more, microbiologists accept it

By your extremely narrow definition of evolution only.

And because bacteria swap DNA it is constant and ongoing variation.

Forget trying to use bacteria as proof of evolution.

As a matter of interest, are you involved with this in any way?

 

[Greg Jennings]

By your extremely narrow definition of evolution only.

Not mine, it's the definition used by the scientific community

And because bacteria swap DNA it is constant and ongoing variation.

Somewhat, yes

Forget trying to use bacteria as proof of evolution.

Why? Because you don't like it? It works for scientists

As a matter of interest, are you involved with this in any way?

Professionally? No

 

[iouae]

What I mean is how in the world would the Dome of the Rock possibly get destroyed? Do you realize how holy that place is to Muslims? They'd never let it be torn down. And Israel would never risk making their precarious position in that region even worse by destroying it without the consent of Muslims.


I dabble

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

This is a person like none before or after, who is given unlimited supernatural and natural power.

The Muslim nations are very weak militarily.
Especially if nukes are on the table.
This "Beast" does call fire down from heaven, a possible reference to nukes.

 

[Greg Jennings]

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

This is a person like none before or after, who is given unlimited supernatural and natural power.

The Muslim nations are very weak militarily.
Especially if nukes are on the table.
This "Beast" does call fire down from heaven, a possible reference to nukes.

The Dome of the Rock is in Jerusalem.

 

[alwight]

You are still playing the alien racist card calling all aliens dumber than us. Too dumb to beam a signal into space. Lets coin a new phrase - y'all are being earthling supremacists.

I think that you are the one who is falsely constructing supremacist attitudes based on our evolved use of intelligence that you consider to be superior. I haven't suggested that any ET evolving life is in any way dumb, it just would be doing whatever it needs to do to survive. Perhaps there just is no inevitability of intelligence evolving unless it provided something beneficial and naturally selectable?

 

[iouae]

Not mine, it's the definition used by the scientific community

All we believe is that allele frequency in a population changes.
Why can't you creationists just accept that evolution happens? :idunno:

Same reason that when it happens in bacteria, it ain't evolution.

 

[Greg Jennings]

All we believe is that allele frequency in a population changes.
Why can't you creationists just accept that evolution happens? :idunno:

Same reason that when it happens in bacteria, it ain't evolution.

And when it happens in lizards, or elephants, or finches, according to you that's not evolution either. Yet when it has happened in those animals, scientists have called it evolution.

I'm left to wonder who is more qualified between you and these scientists

 

[iouae]

I think that you are the one who is falsely constructing supremacist attitudes based on our evolved use of intelligence that you consider to be superior. I haven't suggested that any ET evolving life is in any way dumb, it just would be doing whatever it needs to do to survive. Perhaps there just is no inevitability of intelligence evolving unless it provided something beneficial and naturally selectable?

You are making excuses for why ET does not call home.

I am detecting excuses for why evolutions one and only major prediction has failed so far.

But your big day may still come. If it does, we may have more to worry about. But that isn't ever going to happen. Christ will return. We all should be more concerned about that. Many probably will think it IS ET attacking earth.

 

[iouae]

And when it happens in lizards, or elephants, or finches, according to you that's not evolution either. Yet when it has happened in those animals, scientists have called it evolution.

I'm left to wonder who is more qualified between you and these scientists

You have evidence of one kind changing into another. Why have you been holding back?