Creation vs. Evolution

[iouae]

Yeah, like you lot are ever going to change your mind....

Pot-kettle

But, if that's what you're looking for, try this:

- Transitional fossils for every lineage were predicted to exist by none other that big D himself

Biggest reason I personally don't believe in evolution, the lack of missing-links.

- Age of the earth was predicted to be way over millions of years, long before dating methods were around, just based on the scale of known evolutionary changes from the earliest found fossils

Don't remember Bible ever dating earth.

- ring species

Animals left Ark, found niches, varied and specialised, as creationists always believed. In dogs its clear big dogs can no longer mate with tiniest ones. No prediction or proof here, just observation.

And likely, furthest from Ark, the weirdest. Australia.

- embryological similarities

Now discredited as Haeckel fudged his drawings. Why would God not use same embryonic processes which work in multiple creations?
Besides, even the ancients have observed embryos for ages. This is no prediction, just an attempted "proof".

- Phylogeny of ERVs and organelles should match the "host" organism's phylogeny, which was only possible to confirm through genetics.

Why not claim DNA was predicted? Same non-prediction.
Everyone knew there are heritable traits. Nobody knew the mechanism in Darwin's day.

Now on to some specifics that come to mind:

- Tiktaalik

I predict there is every kind of weird creature out there, because God just loves to surprise. Thousands we have not discovered or would not believe, but which I could speculate exist. E.g I predict there was a dinosaur which breathed out methane, had a BIC fire-lighter in its mouth, and breathed fire. Bet it will turn up someday.

- eusociality in naked mole rats

Source of who predicted this based on evolution.

- Feathered dinos

Half of Dino's are shaped like birds. Since Dinos LOOKED like birds, and we did not know their skin covering, so every type from scales, to fur, to feathers has been predicted, especially that there were winged dinos..

This is no better than taking a guess what each fossil looks like in real life. And a stopped clock is right twice a day. As is a prediction of every possible body covering. One has to be right.

And so many more

But all of the above means nothing to you, does it?

Impress me with future predictions. That way I know they are real and useful. And I don't mean ones based on nature such as a flower must have a pollinator. That's not evolution predicting.

But thanks for participating

 

[6days]

Right, why don't we see evolution in progress now ?

The evolution or changes we witness are all within the created kinds. The evolution we witness is testimony to the truth of God's Word. We often witness the ability of organisms to rapidly adapt or speciate using pre-exisiting genetic information and mechanisms.

In the beginning, God created

 

[Stuu]

The evolution we witness is testimony to the truth of God's Word. We often witness the ability of organisms to rapidly adapt or speciate using pre-exisiting genetic information and mechanisms.

Scripture please.

Especially the verses that discuss speciation, genetic information and above all, mechanisms.

Stuart

 

[6days]

On the Bible predictions: anyone can make predictions. If they haven't come true, so what?

The question to you Greg is why do you dismiss the dozens of accurately fulfilled prophecues?

"There are so many strong and clear evidences of the perfect and unique truth of Christianity that those who remain skeptical were said by the great apostle Peter to be "willingly ignorant" (2 Peter 3:5), and by the apostle Paul to be "without excuse" (Romans 1:20)......"
http://www.icr.org/ChristProphecies/

 

[iouae]

The great prediction that evolution has made goes something like this...

This earth is probably like one of innumerable other ones out there in the universe. There have to be innumerable other "goldilocks" planets which could support life.

And if intelligent life could have evolved here, then evolution of intelligent life could equally have occurred innumerable other times elsewhere in the galaxy.

This is how evolutionists think.

I cannot speak for all creationists but I don't think that way. I think, there is only life on earth because God created it here. And there is no suggestion in the Bible that He is trying to save or gather around Him for all eternity, any but mankind.

I think evolutionists ship has sailed. We have developed sensors to detect all known wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum. If a broadcast was being sent from anywhere in the universe, we have the instruments to have detected it already. And nothing.

So all the satellites and probes out there looking for life elsewhere in the universe - good luck with that.

If you find ET I might consider becoming an evolutionist.

 

[Jose Fly]

This has been interesting on two fronts. First we see 6days once again make an empty claim, "Its a point he has been proven wrong on before", be asked to substantiate the claim, and then ignore the request. This has become such a predictable pattern with 6days that multiple people have noticed, except apparently 6days himself.

Then we have iouae who once again asks questions about evolutionary biology (what are its predictions), but after they are answered he responds with "God just made it that way", showing again how it's a waste of time to discuss the science with him.

Thus we see yet again how it is impossible to advocate creationism honestly.

 

[Greg Jennings]

Greg

Your made up evolutionary prediction was as useful as I was expecting

But what I was looking for was real science, what serious scientists are spending serious money on, testing evolutionary theory. There is such an evolutionary theory currently being tested, unlike your cute story. But I bet evolutionists themselves do not recognise that their theory is being scientifically tested as we speak.

No I'm not aware of the particular experiment that you seem averse to sharing with the class. But I am familiar with one that has lasted over 30 years in which bacterial cultures were placed in different substances with different food sources every few days. This experiment has produced new species of bacteria that feed on substances that the parent population had no ability to process. I know that since you've never taken a course in genetics or microbiology that result might seem trivial to you, but it's akin to an leopard species evolving the ability to eat and live off of only vegetation for food. That's a pretty big deal. Bacteria are ideal test subjects for experiments like this because you have many generations being produced in a single day, whereas an experiment involving people would take millennia to get to the same number of generations that bacteria can get to in a year.


PS: my island elephant "prediction" isn't just a prediction. It's happened before. On a few islands off the coast of California, dwarf mammoths were found. It's the only place in the world they've ever been seen

 

[iouae]

No I'm not aware of the particular experiment that you seem averse to sharing with the class. But I am familiar with one that has lasted over 30 years in which bacterial cultures were placed in different substances with different food sources every few days. This experiment has produced new species of bacteria that feed on substances that the parent population had no ability to process. I know that since you've never taken a course in genetics or microbiology that result might seem trivial to you, but it's akin to an leopard species evolving the ability to eat and live off of only vegetation for food. That's a pretty big deal. Bacteria are ideal test subjects for experiments like this because you have many generations being produced in a single day, whereas an experiment involving people would take millennia to get to the same number of generations that bacteria can get to in a year.


PS: my island elephant "prediction" isn't just a prediction. It's happened before. On a few islands off the coast of California, dwarf mammoths were found. It's the only place in the world they've ever been seen

Bacteria have been swopping genetic material since the beginning of time, hence antibiotic resistance. That's not evolution.

But good try.
And bacteria are not changing into anything but bacteria. Diversifying.

I predict they will continue doing the same till the end of time. I don't need evolution to predict that.

 

[Greg Jennings]

Don't remember Bible ever dating earth.

Would you be a doll and tell 6days for me?

Half of Dino's are shaped like birds. Since Dinos LOOKED like birds, and we did not know their skin covering, so every type from scales, to fur, to feathers has been predicted, especially that there were winged dinos..

This is no better than taking a guess what each fossil looks like in real life. And a stopped clock is right twice a day. As is a prediction of every possible body covering. One has to be right.

Okay, I'm gonna ask you to please not discuss things that you are clueless about with an air of arrogance, like dinosaurs. It's not a good look. We know what their skin and feathers looked like....because we've found fossilized skin and feathers. Those aren't guesses. We don't know the color, but that's about it.

And no, there weren't winged dinosaurs (unless you're including little bird-like therapods such as Archaeopteryx, but I'm pretty sure you're referring to pterosaurs). There were flying reptiles, but they are distant cousins of dinosaurs, about as closely related as crocodiles were to dinosaurs.

 

[Greg Jennings]

The question to you Greg is why do you dismiss the dozens of accurately fulfilled prophecues?

"There are so many strong and clear evidences of the perfect and unique truth of Christianity that those who remain skeptical were said by the great apostle Peter to be "willingly ignorant" (2 Peter 3:5), and by the apostle Paul to be "without excuse" (Romans 1:20)......"
http://www.icr.org/ChristProphecies/

Since you're a big fan of saying that if evolution was correct then we should have been able to see "kind" change within the last 200 years, tell me what prophecies have been fulfilled in the last 200 years?

 

[Greg Jennings]

The great prediction that evolution has made goes something like this...

This earth is probably like one of innumerable other ones out there in the universe. There have to be innumerable other "goldilocks" planets which could support life.

And if intelligent life could have evolved here, then evolution of intelligent life could equally have occurred innumerable other times elsewhere in the galaxy.

This is how evolutionists think.

I cannot speak for all creationists but I don't think that way. I think, there is only life on earth because God created it here. And there is no suggestion in the Bible that He is trying to save or gather around Him for all eternity, any but mankind.

I think evolutionists ship has sailed. We have developed sensors to detect all known wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum. If a broadcast was being sent from anywhere in the universe, we have the instruments to have detected it already. And nothing.

So all the satellites and probes out there looking for life elsewhere in the universe - good luck with that.

If you find ET I might consider becoming an evolutionist.

Stephen Hawking has said himself that there are likely no hyper intelligent beings like ourselves in the Galaxy because, like you said, we would've heard from them by now. However, we can't (as you incorrectly stated) pick up signals from all across the universe. We're not that advanced yet. And even if hyper-intelligent life doesn't exist nearby, that doesn't mean that critters of normal intelligence aren't sitting around somewhere. There is something between nothing and humans, you know. It's possible that some sort of aquatic animal might be living on Europa in our own solar system. We don't know if that's the case or not because an alien fish wouldn't be broadcasting radio waves across the solar system

 

[Greg Jennings]

Bacteria have been swopping genetic material since the beginning of time, hence antibiotic resistance. That's not evolution.

Are you telling me that bacteria evolving the ability to resist antibiotics isn't evolution? That isn't the experiment I was talking about, but it's sure as hell evolution. Do you think MRSA would exist if we hadn't forced Staphylococcus aureus to adapt in order to survive?


It's funny when you ask for examples of evolution, then shake your head and say "nuh-uh" when one is shown to you. You silly little man

 

[iouae]

Stephen Hawking has said himself that there are likely no hyper intelligent beings like ourselves in the Galaxy because, like you said, we would've heard from them by now. However, we can't (as you incorrectly stated) pick up signals from all across the universe. We're not that advanced yet. And even if hyper-intelligent life doesn't exist nearby, that doesn't mean that critters of normal intelligence aren't sitting around somewhere. There is something between nothing and humans, you know. It's possible that some sort of aquatic animal might be living on Europa in our own solar system. We don't know if that's the case or not because an alien fish wouldn't be broadcasting radio waves across the solar system

That's a good case of Evolutionist's Arrogance.

We are the most advanced on this planet, and all others.

That's why they can't talk to us yet.

 

[iouae]

You silly little man

Touch a nerve?

 

[Greg Jennings]

Touch a nerve?

Not really. But if it makes you feel good to think that it did, be my guest.

What I'm more interested in is your answer to the MRSA question I asked you

 

[Greg Jennings]

That's a good case of Evolutionist's Arrogance.

We are the most advanced on this planet, and all others.

That's why they can't talk to us yet.

Explain to me how an alien lion communicates with us from his home in the Andromeda galaxy, if you would

 

[patrick jane]

page 1010. that number is important to me

 

[iouae]

Since you're a big fan of saying that if evolution was correct then we should have been able to see "kind" change within the last 200 years, tell me what prophecies have been fulfilled in the last 200 years?

The return of the Jews to Jerusalem before the end-time.

At the end, they will be taken into captivity, 1/3 killed, 1/3 taken captive and the 1/3 left will be persecuted and chased out of the land.

Jer 30 is but one reference to this.

3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.

5 For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.

6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:

9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

Here is another from Zech 14

14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

 

[Greg Jennings]

The return of the Jews to Jerusalem before the end-time.

Okay I guess, but they were gonna return at some point. When you have an unspecified, unlimited amount of time before the end time in which the Jews can return, you can't really get that wrong.

According to Revelations the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed (in order for a new Temple to be built) before the end times come. How do you suppose that'll happen?

 

[iouae]

Explain to me how an alien lion communicates with us from his home in the Andromeda galaxy, if you would

How long has Homo sapiens been around?
Let's say 200 000 years.

Why has your lion not evolved in the 13.8 billion years if in 200 000 years such smarties as us evolved?

I hope that's not too complex for you