Creation vs. Evolution

[Cross Reference]

Dear Cross Reference,

I'm afraid you are badly mistaken. God loves His children despite their sins, and when and if they are able to repent and/or change their ways, He loves them all the more.

You assume a gay person is a child of God. I don't. He becomes one only after being born again, as is the case with anyone [hetero/homo] outside His 'camp'. Neither clan are "family members" until born again from above..When "born" into God's family/clan one gives his allegiance to God as Father as evidence. Short of "confession", one has to doubt the re-birth of that one who makes a "confession" of faith when what, in reality, can only amount to a "profession" without *substance to convince. However, if truly a "confession" from his heart then it becomes an issue of "Spiritual adultery" birthed in "self-gradification" and away from God if he continues in his state of "vanity". Very dangerous position to be in when dealing an abomination.

*John 1:12 KJV ONLY

 

[The Barbarian]

God did not cease to love the Israelites, even when they worshiped false gods and were punished.

God loves you, even when you have strayed, and rejoices when you return. God loves sinners so much that He sent His Son to die for us.

 

[Hedshaker]

Not hardly.

No gay is of Jesus Christ. Deal with it. Believe God and repent while His grace is still being offered.

Denial isn't a river in Egypt. You have been shown the existence of gay Christians. Would you like to see more?

The Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement (LGCM)

Gay Christian 101

Vicky Beeching, Christian rock star 'I'm gay. God loves me just the way I am'

And these people all sincerely identify them selves as Christian just as you do. They pray, read the Bible, go to church and worship the same deity as you, just like any other Christian. The only difference is their sexual orientation.

You have no right or reason to question their sincerity. They are every bit as Christian as you claim to be. And has you have learned, to claim they are not really Christians or not "True Christians" is a blatant Logical Fallacy

Now you can either do the honest thing, man up and admit your error, or you can carry on with this ridiculous self denial. But if you do the latter know this, we all see you and you have no excuse. The evidence is beyond overwhelming. Maybe next time you will check your facts before making positive claims.

There are plenty of gay Christians, the same ratio in fact as any other walk of life. It's just that some choose to be open about it, unlike that piece of scum Ted Haggard.

It's no crime to be wrong, happens to all of us. Admitting it is where a sign of good character comes in. Do the right thing.

Do. The. Right. Thing.

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear BJ,

You're sitting there trying to judge God and you are wondering about MY moral compass??

As regards the Old Testament killings we are discussing, my moral compass says to reach out with love and compassion and do whatever you can to protect and love innocent kids, and give them the same opportunity for growing up as choice adult members of society as you would have your own children do. Your moral compass denies infants who haven’t had an evil thought in their lives the right to even live, and instead consigns them to the horror of being hacked to death. Is it I or is it you that is exemplifying the Christian teaching of love and compassion for the most helpless members of society? Answer with either “Michael” or “BJ”, if you dare.

…I'm sure that wherever the babies went to {baby heaven?}, God took wonderful care of them.

By the same obscene logic that you use, if some person goes insane and hacks all the children and infants in your extended family to death, that’s not something that would bother you, since God will take wonderful care of your slaughtered relatives.

 

[alwight]

Very dangerous position to be in when dealing an abomination.

Being gay, eating shellfish, and the wearing mixed weave cloth are all apparently abominations, let's hope that you are being equally careful with all.

 

[Interplanner]

Dear All,

It says that God created the Universe, Heaven and Earth, the host of heaven, etc. "And God called the light Day and the darkness Night. And the evening and the morning were the "1st Day". "And God separated and divided the waters which were above and the waters on Earth, and He created the firmament (Heaven). And that was the second day.

And it goes on further to say that that God created the Earth and Seas; plants and trees. And the evening and the morning were the third day. And in the fourth day, God made the hosts of Heaven, tons of angels and servants (helpers), including the Sun and the Moon, all on one day. And the planets, etc. And Orion and the Big Dipper, so they could be used for signs and for seasons, for days and for years.

Then it says that on the fifth day, God created great whales and everything in the seas, and He brought forth fowl from the waters to fly in the firmament. And this was alot of work. But for God to create all of that in 24 hours, no big deal. Then, in the sixth day, God created all of the creatures of the Earth, beasts, cattle, mastodons, elephants, beasts, dinosaurs {Ty Rex, Brontosaurus, raptors, etc. Even alligators, crocodiles, tortoises and turtle, armadillo, dinosaurs}. I know much more than these. And all of the creeping critters, and bugs {roaches, millipedes, centipedes, etc}. Then God created Man and then Woman. And all of this was done during the sixth day. Now, God said all He has to do is speak what He wants to envision and that it does not come back to Him Undone. I will find that quote for you soon. That He just gives the word and it is. He is the Master Chemist don't forget. He is Grand and Great, and Omnipotent, and Full Of Love To Give For Those Who Want It. But as loving as He is, yes He has also had to create a bottomless pit in the center of the earth. It has a center and a top (because of gravity) but no bottom, figuratively. It also has hot magma and lava and is Hell. The Lake of Fire is our Sun. And once our Sun burns out, God will provide another sun for the devil to burn in. Now, He does all of these things because He knows what the future would bring, and that man can not help but fall, because they are no match for the devil, Satan. That's why we're having a time now of learning how to choose good from evil, and keeping the good or keeping the evil, or some of both, which makes us have certain personalities.

Okay, you must realize that when God created Adam, that was roughly back 7 or 8 thousand years? Now when God created Adam, he did not create him as an infant, but instead as a man. Also God did not create a young Universe and planet Earth, or Our Sun and Moon. Instead He created them older. Same with the creatures, cattle, fowl, beasts, creeping things, etc. He did not make eggs, He made already mature bugs, and same with cattle, fowl, etc. You cannot expect that God took more than 6 days to create everything. Okay, am going to get going. This will become my OP on my Creation vs. Evolution thread. It's long overdue. It's a lot easier to explain, too. These things found in amber, etc., must only truly be 7 or 8,000 years. They just look aged for our sakes. OK, will close for now. God Bestow A Big Kiss On Your Foreheads!!

Michael

The Lord God has wiped the earth clean before and He will do it nearly again, leaving a third of the Earth's people this time. Remember Noah and his wife, of whom we are all descended from, therefore we are ALL Brothers and Sisters, who don't get along well. Ishmael is the ancestor of all of the Arab people. I hope I've explained this well enough for now. If God decides to wipe us all off of the earth for sin, who would wonder why? Look at this earth and tell me what shape it is in? What are you going to do about it?? Forget your Evolution idea!! There is a Higher Power that oversees every little change in every creature He forms. Every nucleus, atom, genome, DNA, electron, etc. That's all, just for now. Re-read and study, and look in your Bibles. Things are happening that you don't know about yet. But the time is upon us.

May the Lord God Continue to Bless the Lord Jesus,

{For the 'Lord' God said to MY 'Lord' Jesus; Sit thou at my right hand until I make thy enemies thy footstool.}

He is doing just that. Can you understand any of this?? Please, if you have any comments, keep them civil and maybe kind? I'm trying here. My main message is that Jesus is Returning Soon. I am now a YEC (Young Earth Creationist) and have changed some parts of my message here.

Praise His Greatness and His Intense Imagination, Which Is An Incredible Amazing Thing!!!

There are a few things about the original text of Genesis that may help you sort some of this out.

1:1 is a title like 2:4, 5:1 and many other places in Genesis. It is not action in the story yet.

The grammar of v2 actually goes: when God was creating the earth, it was already empty and void. Just note for now that there was material there already, in dissarray and emptiness. We don't know how long.

'empty and void' (tohu wa-bohu) is an expression having to do with God's judgement. It is in Jer 4:11. The land of Israel was empty and void after the first captivity of Israel as a judgement.

So at the end of Gen 1:2, We now therefore have:
an indefinitely old earth that is unformed and unfilled (we must assume he is referring to the visible surface, not the subterra).
2, it is in this condition because something was wrong and was judged. We are now reminded of an event that is coming shortly--the flood. We just don't know what kind of thing offended God. There are some clues in Job and the Psalms. Some of them have to do with a massive creature who was some sort of lizard in the sea.
3, the two terms 'empty and void' now set up an "answer" in the creative acts of God. Because there is a problem. First, he will provide some structures (again on the surface), and then he will fill those structures. So at the end of the 6 days of work, the place is un-void and un-empty, or, formed and filled.

We don't know how long this took, but as you say, he can speak things into existence as he wishes.

There are now some things that are more sensible to the OE scientist and yet the passage is still intact. In fact, paleontology refers to the Cambrian explosion, which is mysterious. That is referring to the sudden appearance of all kinds of species in the fossil record.

 

[The Barbarian]

There are now some things that are more sensible to the OE scientist and yet the passage is still intact. In fact, paleontology refers to the Cambrian explosion, which is mysterious.

Was, in the 1800s. Then it became clear that there were all sorts of multicellular organisms moving around before the Cambrian. The primary cause of the explosion seems to have been the evolution of complete exoskeletons.

This sudden appearance of many different kinds of animals having skeletons (shells) in the fossil record is called the Cambrian Explosion. The Cambrian Fauna is as different from Vendian life as it is from the Paleozoic Fauna that occurs above Cambrian-age rocks.

The diversity of Cambrian life contrasts with that of the late Proterozoic partly because the newly evolved exoskeletons allowed Cambrian animals to become fossilized more easily. The evolution of shells may have allowed for the evolution of a wider variety of body plans. Whatever the reason, Cambrian time saw an "explosion" of diversity in the evolution of life on Earth. Shells also provide protection, and the Cambrian records the first examples of predation in the fossil record. For many different reasons, the Cambrian Explosion is an important event in the history of life.
http://paleobiology.si.edu/geotime/main/htmlversion/cambrian2.html

Partially, the "explosion" is just a consequence of greater frequency of fossilization. Partly, it's the fact that exoskeletons allowed a lot more ways of life than soft-bodied forms ever could do.

 

[Interplanner]

Thanks for the clarifications. Why would there be a surge in diversity if there was not a creative hand? There is no functional need for it. All the existing life wants to do is survive and dominate.

'Tohu wa-bohu' indicates there was something wrong before this (domesticated) world was created as such. I think the force of evolution is a candidate for that. It results in domination by one kind of creature, possibly T-Rex. Yet that is not the world we now have, and the world we now have is like Gen 1, not like anything that was before Gen 1.

 

[Jonahdog]

Thanks for the clarifications. Why would there be a surge in diversity if there was not a creative hand? There is no functional need for it. All the existing life wants to do is survive and dominate.

'Tohu wa-bohu' indicates there was something wrong before this (domesticated) world was created as such. I think the force of evolution is a candidate for that. It results in domination by one kind of creature, possibly T-Rex. Yet that is not the world we now have, and the world we now have is like Gen 1, not like anything that was before Gen 1.

Ah, another one with limited knowledge of science. So entertaining.

The environment changes and makes it more difficult for existing organisms to "dominate", but in reality, the biological world works, not because a few organisms dominate but that things are interconnected and work as a whole.

Can you provide any evidence that T. rex dominated? It may have been the largest carnivore at the time, but that does not mean it "dominated". In fact, without, for example, bacteria and fungi T.rex would not have had a chance.

 

[Interplanner]

did it have a predator?

btw, I'm not trying to do science so you can save some of your condescension. What I do know is that NW American Indian, English, Persian, Sanskrit, Egyptian, Hebrew, Nordic legend all refer to a huge defeated lizard as a turning point in the success of their ancestors. As they also all refer to a huge flood, at one point or another, there is something to be said for this universal corroboration.

The last scientist I talked to had a sample collection system on top of the national park mountains near me. They were Ph.D. candidates. They were collecting for nitrates to see what damage had been done by the ITT Rayonier mill near us which closed in the 80s. Since I have hiked these mountains since I was a child, I asked what ordinary indicator would I look for that would indicate that something awful had happened over the past 40 years?(the person's email was on the device). She responded but there were none given. Every thing I knew of as a kid up there still flourishes as much as it can at 5000 feet.

So much for science. This is maybe why Geiger left the American Physical Society calling it a religion and why Moore has his 5th video against climate change 'science' at PragerUniversity.com.

 

[Cross Reference]

Denial isn't a river in Egypt. You have been shown the existence of gay Christians. Would you like to see more?

I have?? Lol!

Your "denial" of the scriptures as to what God commanded man and woman not to do ___ on penalty of death, is wanting. Maybe do a little catch up on your OT might be in order, eh? Maybe follow it up with a cursory read of Romans 1 in the New and get back to me. . . . . 'nuff said.
.

 

[Cross Reference]

You and cross reference are way too sensitive. You guys need to get over yourself. That is just my opinion. Take it for what it is worth.

I chucked it.

 

[noguru]

I chucked it.

Good for you?

 

[Hedshaker]

I have?? Lol!

Your "denial" of the scriptures as to what God commanded man and woman not to do ___ on penalty of death, is wanting. Maybe do a little catch up on your OT might be in order, eh? Maybe follow it up with a cursory read of Romans 1 in the New and get back to me. . . . . 'nuff said.
.

I'm not a Christian so scripture means nothing to me but Christians argue amongst themselves like cat and dog over how scripture should be interpreted, which is why you have so many sects. Or are you now arguing that only Christians who agree with you to the letter are "true Christians"? Because if you are it's still The No True Scotsman Fallacy

You have been shown with an abundance of clear evidence to be 100% wrong in your positive claim that "no Christian is gay". Clearly it is only your pride that prevents you from admitting your error. Doesn't your own religion say something about that? I think it does.

You have been proved wrong on this issue and only your pride prevents you from admitting it, and that's for your conscience to deal with if you have one.

Good luck with that.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I have?? Lol!

Your "denial" of the scriptures as to what God commanded man and woman not to do ___ on penalty of death, is wanting. Maybe do a little catch up on your OT might be in order, eh? Maybe follow it up with a cursory read of Romans 1 in the New and get back to me. . . . . 'nuff said.
.

Dear CrossR,

Hey, I'm Christian. I was gay for 40 some years, but I did repent and changed my ways. Now, I've got to tell you that God loved me regardless of it during those 40 years, maybe because He knew He could help me change later on. I don't know. All that I do know is that you are caught up in the NT condemnation of everyone. Well, do the apostles believe like Jesus when He said about the adulteress, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone." In other words, Cross, you have sinned plenty enough, so don't be coming down on gay people. You have no idea how God will judge them. That does not happen until Rev. 20:13KJV. Check it out. Even many in Hell shall be forgiven. For we do worse sins today than were done in those days past. I hope I've gotten through to you here. Don't play God and decide how He will judge gay people. Yes, I know what the Bible says. The Bible also condemns adultery, but you saw what Jesus did. Show some love and compassion in your heart and quit judging your fellow men and women. Leave that UP TO GOD!! I can't express that enough to you. Gay people are IN LOVE. Their love runs deeper than many heteros. God is LOVE. So you figure it out. Now, drop the judgment and do some Compassion and consideration, and loving kindness.

Praise God!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I have?? Lol!

Your "denial" of the scriptures as to what God commanded man and woman not to do ___ on penalty of death, is wanting. Maybe do a little catch up on your OT might be in order, eh? Maybe follow it up with a cursory read of Romans 1 in the New and get back to me. . . . . 'nuff said.
.

Dear Cross Reference,

Once again, it says the same penalty for eating pork chops, ham, etc., or clams, oysters, crab meat, squid, etc. How many people are home eating bacon and ham, and sausage? Are they all condemned also for committing an abomination? I just quit eating pork and shellfish, etc. about 2 weeks ago. It's no fun, but I want to do it ALL God's Way. I am able, so why shouldn't I? If I were unable, such as did not have the willpower, then that would be different. I quit smoking cigarettes after 40 years of that. Now, that was as hard or harder than ceasing from being a practicing gay person. It is hard to say which was worse, to be honest. It was like sheer hell trying to make the change, but I did it all for the Lord. But Cross, it is by God's Grace whether or not each individual makes it to Heaven.
Not by anything that we do or don't do. If we love God, we then try to keep the ways He loves. Same with Jesus. If we love Him, we keep His commandments, which are, to love God with all of your being, and to love each other tremendously. That is what you should take away with this.

May God Touch Your Heart And Forgiveness,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I chucked it.

I've got to tell you also, Cross R, that God is more upset with guys having sex with two different girls every weekend. You know, going to the bars on Fri. night and then Sat. night, and hooking up with a different girl each night. It is called fornication. It multiplies diseases and unwanted children, which leads to abortion, or a mother raising her kid{s} without a father, etc. To those poor children who have to be called bastards all of their lives, it is a traumatic situation. Much worse than being gay, which causes none of that. I'm just relaying to you what He says to me. Don't kill the messenger. I used to think abortion was okay, but I asked God and He said no, it was killing/murder. And that He loves the women but not their actions or choices. This is what He told me, whether you believe me or not. I remember it as if it were yesterday. Ah, the pleasant memories of our experiences together.

There you go.

Michael

:rapture: :rapture: :rapture: :angel: :angel:
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

I have no hesitation nor qualms about judging what people try to tell me is God. The very barbarity that I see in some parts of the Bible convince me that those acts could not have be ordered by any type of being that I could or would worship. I feel sorry that you have no such scruples, and that child massacre is just fine with you, as long as you think somehow God approves.

Dear BJ,

King Herod put out the decree to kill every male child two years old and younger. Those children didn't suffer for an instant before they were in God's loving care in Heaven. Death is more of a luxury and awesome gift that God can give. Bless the hearts of those who die in the name of the Lord before, and forevermore. The devil makes men fear death, but the wise man knows that death is only a leaving of this realm into another realm. There is only a spirit popping out of an earthly body and going on to better, excellent things. Ah, Davis, there is too much to teach you. You just don't understand so much.

Yes, God did test Abraham to kill his only son, but God stopped him short and it did not come to that. God was testing Abraham to see what mattered to him most, God or his son. The same test is presented to you, Davis, and you've done poorly. You've refused God in the entire process. Good luck!

Just as right now in the world we are hearing about Terrorists using God as an excuse to justify repeatedly raping captive women, anciently when the nomadic Hebrews committed horrific acts of brutality, they too invoked “God” as a cover story.

And, though we are repulsed by hearing of modern-day rapes of captives in the Mideast, yet rape is less serious than infanticide. You give a free pass to a God who anciently commanded child slaughter. Can you then rationally object to soldiers who today say God orders them to commit a less heinous act?

And that is absolutely hogwash when applied to the Hebrew soldiers slaughtering children. Those children of infidel parents absolutely can be spared, and brought up in the same type of environment that the Hebrews raise their own kids in. You are mocking truth and decency by continually saying that those children had to be slaughtered. In the view of many Christians I am an enemy of good and righteousness. Then why is it that I see an opportunity for protecting and loving innocent children, and you, supposedly a chosen servant of God, shut your eyes to that opportunity?

Do it my way, and the heathen children may lose their parents, but they are presented with the opportunity to learn and grow into productive and upstanding adults. Do it your way, and those children are slaughtered corpses being eaten by scavenging animals and insects.

Corpses are just that. Dead body matter. They have NO LIFE IN THEM ANYMORE!!

God Open Your Eyes,

Michael

:rapture: :rapture: :rapture: :angel: :angel:

 

[MichaelCadry]

I think you have the all-time best thread now that i look @ the #s

roughly 180,000 views per year. WOW - that may be 500 per day ? good job to the users on this thread (i may have viewed about 500 times) 150 posts ? anyhoo great thread Michael Cadry

Dear Patrick,

Thank you so much for your encouragement. Also, thanks TONS for your timely scriptural references. They have really hit home and they strengthen me in my resolve to glorify The Father and The Son, and the Holy Ghost!! Thanks so very much, PJ,

May God Increase Your Countenance!!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :thumb: :angel: :cloud9:

​

 

[MichaelCadry]

You assume a gay person is a child of God. I don't. He becomes one only after being born again, as is the case with anyone [hetero/homo] outside His 'camp'. Neither clan are "family members" until born again from above..When "born" into God's family/clan one gives his allegiance to God as Father as evidence. Short of "confession", one has to doubt the re-birth of that one who makes a "confession" of faith when what, in reality, can only amount to a "profession" without *substance to convince. However, if truly a "confession" from his heart then it becomes an issue of "Spiritual adultery" birthed in "self-gradification" and away from God if he continues in his state of "vanity". Very dangerous position to be in when dealing an abomination.

*John 1:12 KJV ONLY

Dear Cross Ref,

All gay persons are children of God. All persons are children of God. Some just need more refining and perfecting yet. If you think God does not love maybe 1/20th of the entire population of the Earth, that is a shame. You're right. God does want you to manage to repent from your sins and correct your actions accordingly. For every person, there is a certain time when they are ready to do that. For some, it won't be until the Second Death. There's too much that you think you know, that you don't. You are not God, so quit judging gay people. By the way, do you eat bacon. It is an abomination to God. That's what is written. Hey, when you are finally with the Lord, then tell us what you think is true. It will be different than your views now, in this world. I have said these things already.

Learn To Forgive,

Michael