Creation vs. Evolution

[M. A. Williams]

So we should throw out the conclusions indicated by science because you can't conceive of Genesis not being an accurate historical account but still being valuable theology?

That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that, initially, it should at least be a matter of faith if nothing else.

To consider it as a historical account is not a short-term likelihood for many, most, people because it's so multi-disciplinary that it's incredibly taxing on time and, frankly, most people don't have the time nor will to dedicate that much time and effort to it.

 

[noguru]

That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that, initially, it should at least be a matter of faith if nothing else.

To consider it as a historical account is not a short-term likelihood for many, most, people because it's so multi-disciplinary that it's incredibly taxing on time and, frankly, most people don't have the time nor will to dedicate that much time and effort to it.

So according to you, "faith" means we should ignore evidence?

Can you please elaborate on this "self-sufficiency" of scripture hypothesis you are proposing?

 

[MichaelCadry]

I'm here to stay, as well. I think it's a great responsibility that has fallen to us few that will unashamedly stand by the bible and preach God's Word.

I'm a new member and can't have a signature yet, but when I can, it shall read;



I'm very proactive in the defense of faith, especially origins theology, so we shall no doubt cross paths as we also cross paths with our other brothers-in-arms on the matter.

I'm trying to rename as well. I had hoped to make a sly dig at JO but the opposite has happened with people thinking I am a fan. That cannot stand!

Either way, look forward to holding the wall with you, brother.



Yes, I joined yesterday. A lot more literal interpretation folks here than I'd imagined. I think I'll fit in nicely

Thanks for the reps!

Dear Joel B,

You're more than welcome. It won't be the last time I give you good rep. pts. That reminds me that I have to see if I can spread some more on some of my other friends. I tried to put you up on my Friend's Wall, but you don't have an Avatar yet. You should like it here. Oh well, I'll chat with you 2morrow evening or so. I have to take my nephew to get his car to an emission's test. Hope it passes. It's been sitting two years. The battery had to be jumped, but it's starting up okay now on it's own. He lives about 20 or more miles away. Far!! About an hour's drive. No freeway access.

Well, hope you have a nice day 2morrow. Will talk with you soon!!

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

So according to you, "faith" means we should ignore evidence?

Can you please elaborate on this "self-sufficiency" of scripture hypothesis you are proposing?

Faith doesn't mean you have to ignore evidence. But your evidence is questionable most of the time. Science has been around for what, 150 years? So, do you think that science knows more about the Creation story than God?! Noguru, see Post #10867 for starters. You've missed out on a bit while you were gone. You should go back a page and see where you've left off the night before. Creationists have skyrocketed. Evolutionists are utterly dissolved. If you can't get it, I will go back into the three posts that dissolve evolutionism.

Michael

 

[noguru]

Faith doesn't mean you have to ignore evidence. But your evidence is questionable most of the time.

Michael you are misrepresenting this again to spin it and try to boost your credibility. Remember you have no credibility. You are a joke.

Science has been around for what, 150 years? So, do you think that science knows more about the Creation story than God?!

The Bible is theological text. It does not address science. That much is clear to anyone with half a brain.

So it is not a good source for scientific claims.

You've missed out on a bit while you were gone.

As much as I might have missed out while I was gone, it would take me decades to miss as much as you have.

You should go back a page and see where you've left off the night before.

Michael, you are not paying attention. I have followed each post all the way from where I left off.

Creationists have skyrocketed. Evolutionists are utterly dissolved. If you can't get it, I will go back into the three posts that dissolve evolutionism.

Oh, is that how you see it? "Creationists have skyrocketed." Is that the your best description of the reality. No wonder you guys are just laughed at.

:rotfl:

If only you were not oblivious to reality, you might gain a more accurate understanding of reality. Why don't you stick to cooking, and leave science to the real men and woman who can handle it?

Like I said Michael, you have absolutely no credibility when it comes to science, no matter how much you try to appeal to your faith to gain it back.

Whatcha making for breakfast?

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael you are misrepresenting this again to spin it and try to boost your credibility. Remember you have no credibility. You are a joke.

I made one mistake out of a hundred things I did right. So that makes me lose credibility, eh? I do still have credibility and I am not a joke. We will see how funny you think the joke is once things come down this Autumn. And also when you face God with your science book and tell God you don't believe His story of the Creation.

The Bible is theological text. It does not address science. That much is clear to anyone with half a brain.

So it is not a good source for scientific claims.

The Bible is also a good source of History and some Science also. Where do you think they got the idea for the Big Bang theory? I'll tell you. They got it from the Bible. From the words, "and He said, Let there be light, and there was light." That's how it began. That's also where they got it. You think not?? :ha:

Creation is at odds with Science, and Science has referenced the Bible on many occasions. Science went to the Bible to even find the instance of Creation there, so they could try to understand how it was done, but without a God. Science went to the Bible to try to disprove the Great Flood. Science went to the Bible. Do you really get it, Noguru. I can go on with this. Like Science tries helplessly to try to explain how the Red Sea parted and how they walked over dry earth across the Ocean Floor. All of this is Science referencing Scripture. So cut it out!! Hey, I'm tired of listening to you rant. I've told you squarely about Science and the Bible. You just don't get it, so I'm not going to keep beating a dead horse! :deadhorse:

As much as I might have missed out while I was gone, it would take me decades to miss as much as you have.

Michael, you are not paying attention. I have followed each post all the way from where I left off.

Oh, is that how you see it? "Creationists have skyrocketed." Is that the your best description of the reality. No wonder you guys are just laughed at.

:rotfl:

If only you were not oblivious to reality, you might gain a more accurate understanding of reality. Why don't you stick to cooking, and leave science to the real men and woman who can handle it?

Like I said Michael, you have absolutely no credibility when it comes to science, no matter how much you try to appeal to your faith to gain it back.

Whatcha making for breakfast?

I'm having Waffles with Real Maple Syrup! It cost $9 a bottle, but it's healthy and worth it. No Butter. But I do always use butter in other things. Rarely margarine {oil spreads}. I'm ignoring a lot of what you say which is just banter, noguru. I've tried telling you what is really going on and you are trying to get out of your hole. God's watching you do all of this and if you think He's liking it, you're very wrong. Yes, what do you think He's going to say to you when you finally face Him? That you didn't believe Genesis, chapters 1 and 2? I leave you in God's Hands and all of your conjecture also. Let God deal with you. If you figure out that the Creation story is true, let me know, and I will fellowship with you. I really don't know what else to tell you. Your reputation is fine because you've never made mistakes? Sure!! My reputation is still just fine, because I'm made an error, I've admitted it, I've said I was sorry and asked for Forgiveness, but nothing has been good enough for you. I'll bet you in the end, you will be left holding a Science Book and I'll be holding a Bible, and we'll see whom Jesus calls to Him. Oh, yes, Jesus will not like my reputation, that's right! :ha:

You don't know which hole is which. Man, I've tried to be as nice as I can with you and I really felt the closest we've been since I met you. You are on my Facebook. But I'm not going to let you attack a newbie just because he has potential. He just landed and you jump right in like a d*** vulture or vampire. I'm not pleased at all and I'm not going to just sit back and watch. I understood everything you said to him with your rhetoric to Joel Brosteen, which is just convoluted words to cause Joel to have trouble understanding what you are saying. Very bogue, noguru. God sees every bit of what you do, and if you think you're getting away with it scot-free, you're very mistaken. Oh well, I am tired of the whole imitating the Urantia Book with your fancy, sneaky words. Had enough!! What exactly do you think God is going to say to you when you face Him with your science book, noguru! BAM!! That's what He'll say. He'll say you were so busy with your science that you forgot to help the hungry, needy, naked, with food, necessities and clothes. Do you know I usually give to all who ask me? There are a lot of homeless people here in Phoenix. They come here because it doesn't have as cold of a winter, so they can sleep outside even during the winter. This is long enough. I try to be friends with you and you don't evidently want that. You'd rather toss our friendship aside so you can attack a young man with your bewildering questions? The newbie doesn't deserve to be treated that way, noguru! I'll be friends with him and you can go sit on a 'scientific' log {which God also made and created} and read your Darwin books. You put Darwin before God. That's exactly what you do and you don't care. You think you're doing the right thing, but in essence, you are screwing up extremely badly. We can agree to disagree, but you really should try reading into what I tell you for a change. I've done it for you, so it's your turn. I still love you as a person. What am I supposed to do. It's not something I can turn off and on like a light switch.

Good night, noguru!!

Michael

Alwight is :first: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :angel:

​

 

[alwight]

Dear Alwight,

Davis said he made 3 mistakes. I was answering to that. I know I can be wrong. I'm not right all the time. I've said that much often throughout this entire thread. I'm not a Mr. know-it-all. I have to ask God for every thing I need to know to be guided to help people, even if I make a mistake. I did my best to correct my mistake in my last 7th Edition of my book. I please myself already and am happy with my life, tbh. Davis made 3 mistakes, but won't allow me to make even 1. God will forgive him, but he's still going to pay for doing it. If he only really knew!

Warm Regards And Best Wishes, Al,

Michael

Being wrong Michael is human, it's just an expected fact of life.
Yesterday I managed to delete something in error on Windows that caused me to lose everything on that computer, never mind Windows 10 I've just had to reload Windows 8.1.
I won't do that again. :nono:

Experience, however, has taught me to have back-ups and just about enough computer skills to restore everything to how it was, it just takes so long......

Armageddon on the other hand is not something anyone has had experience of. We can learn from experience and from our mistakes and in being wrong, but Armageddon, so far at least, is just a figment of the imagination to which you and I can both be wrong about.
Experience and evidence is what confirms that what we believe is true or not, whatever we might like to be true instead.
It's evidence, experience combined with a level of scientific understanding which suggests to me anyway that your beliefs are not based on any of that, just what you want to be true.

So by all means do get a free Windows 10 installed, I intend to do the same, and in a couple of years Windows 11...

 

[MichaelCadry]

For Someone Awesome!!

For Someone Awesome!!

Being wrong Michael is human, it's just an expected fact of life.
Yesterday I managed to delete something in error on Windows that caused me to lose everything on that computer, never mind Windows 10 I've just had to reload Windows 8.1.
I won't do that again. :nono:

Experience, however, has taught me to have back-ups and just about enough computer skills to restore everything to how it was, it just takes so long......

Ohhhhh alwight!! No! You must have had to spend hours to get it back to somewhat okay. I have a external hard drive that I keep my computer backed up on and there is not a chance that anyone can hack my external hard drive. Also, I won't lose anything because of it. My computer backs itself up every ten minutes on it's own, from what I understand.

Armageddon on the other hand is not something anyone has had experience of. We can learn from experience and from our mistakes and in being wrong, but Armageddon, so far at least, is just a figment of the imagination to which you and I can both be wrong about.
Experience and evidence is what confirms that what we believe is true or not, whatever we might like to be true instead.
It's evidence, experience combined with a level of scientific understanding which suggests to me anyway that your beliefs are not based on any of that, just what you want to be true.

So by all means do get a free Windows 10 installed, I intend to do the same, and in a couple of years Windows 11...

Alwight, I do base it, in part, on something like Science. The blood red moon that we will have will definitely play a role in this prediction of mine. It also is happening on a Jewish Holy Day. It is the last of four in the past two years, all four on Jewish Holy Days. That's not the only thing I base it on. It will follow Yom Kippur to boot (also). There are other things also. But the Total Eclipse of the Moon is scientific and holy, and Biblical. Hey, I will chat more later. It is past 4a.m. here and I have to go to bed soon. Early day tomorrow.

Tons Of Love & Cheerio, Mate!!

Michael

 

[alwight]

Ohhhhh alwight!! No! You must have had to spend hours to get it back to somewhat okay. I have a external hard drive that I keep my computer backed up on and there is not a chance that anyone can hack my external hard drive. Also, I won't lose anything because of it. My computer backs itself up every ten minutes on it's own, from what I understand.

Hi Michael, just having everything backed up only means that you can perhaps get it all back as it was, but it still seems to take such a long time.

Alwight, I do base it, in part, on something like Science. The blood red moon that we will have will definitely play a role in this prediction of mine. It also is happening on a Jewish Holy Day. It is the last of four in the past two years, all four on Jewish Holy Days. That's not the only thing I base it on. It will follow Yom Kippur to boot (also). There are other things also. But the Total Eclipse of the Moon is scientific and holy, and Biblical. Hey, I will chat more later. It is past 4a.m. here and I have to go to bed soon. Early day tomorrow.

Tons Of Love & Cheerio, Mate!!

Michael

There are two types of eclipses, a solar eclipse is when the sun's light is covered by the moon's shadow here on Earth, while a lunar eclipse is when the moon passes into the Earth's shadow. Depending on atmospheric conditions during a lunar eclipse the moon might well appear to be "blood red", I've seen it myself.
But outside that natural and very explainable event a "blood red moon" is itself only a prediction, but which is not based in any science or astrophysics that I'm aware of, just what you predict.
If we could all see a blood red moon, not a lunar eclipse, then there will have to be a scientific explanation for it or else then we could more reasonably start thinking of something supernatural, but not before. :nono:

 

[rstrats]

MichaelCadry,
re: "...Peter had the trance. Paul wrote about it."

And I ask you again; "Where does Paul write about it?"


re: "Then, the angel, I guess, said 'What God has made clean, is clean,'... "

Actually, that is not what was said. Acts 10:15 reads: "What God has cleansed you must not call common." Big difference between clean and common.

BTW, in your post #10709 you wrote: "Try reading Acts 10 KJV and also Act 11 KJV, and tell me what do you think." I told you what I think in post #10733. So far you have not addressed that post.

 

[noguru]

I made one mistake out of a hundred things I did right. So that makes me lose credibility, eh? I do still have credibility and I am not a joke.....and on and on....and on and on about nothing...

No Michael, you have no credibility in my eyes, sorry. But that is the truth. You demonstrate that you are incompetent and arrogant in regards to science. And that you try to compensate for that by claiming faith in God and being "extra" friendly with people, until they are honest with you. And then you get rather venomous in a very irrational manner. IOW, your critique has no substance. The fact that you try to appeal to our friendship as a way to convince me of your nonsense does not work on me.

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear Michael,

Where do you think they got the idea for the Big Bang theory? I'll tell you. They got it from the Bible. From the words, "and He said, Let there be light, and there was light." That's how it began. That's also where they got it. You think not?? :ha:

Absolutely I think not, and please quit embarrassing yourself by making such blithering asinine nonsensical claims. The big bang theory was the result of a natural question about Hubble’s expansion of the universe. Since you paint yourself as a YEC (now), you really should remember that the big bang timeline disagrees with literal Genesis by a factor of over a million times. You OK with that?

… Science has referenced the Bible on many occasions.

More nonsense. Actually, reference to the Bible is very rare in science. The very operating premise of science is that it restricts itself to natural causes and explanations. Since you were born, how many peer-reviewed scientific articles can you list that have any reliance on any scriptural text – Bible, Koran, Bhagavad Gita, etc?

Science went to the Bible to even find the instance of Creation there, so they could try to understand how it was done, but without a God. Science went to the Bible to try to disprove the Great Flood. Science went to the Bible. Do you really get it, Noguru. I can go on with this. Like Science tries helplessly to try to explain how the Red Sea parted and how they walked over dry earth across the Ocean Floor.

Michael, my friend, it is sad watching you make up lies like you have here - one after another - to try to give legitimacy to your favorite dogma. If you are upset with me or Noguru, back away for a day or so, think about things, and remember that you are dishonoring your God and sacrificing whatever crumbs of credibility you had when you engage in fabricating BS like this.

And, I have to eat humble pie. I realized yesterday that I overlooked counting one of my mistakes, so that makes 4. But since I did overlook that one, the overlooking itself was a mistake, so that makes 5. You happy now? My mistake count has increase by 67% in just a couple days. That makes me livid. I am furious. Schucky darn. (Is that a swear word?).

 

[noguru]

Michael, i forgot to tell you that as much as i disagree with you, i still wish you peace.

 

[M. A. Williams]

Michael, i forgot to tell you that as much as i disagree with you, i still wish you peace.

Well that's something Good to see Christian spirit still exists in even the most fundamental of disagreements -- something not seen too often nowadays.

I've got a busy couple of days but I'll reply to your other posts as soon as I get the time to sit down and reply properly.

Hope you all have a blessed weekend and Lord's Day.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I'm here to stay, as well. I think it's a great responsibility that has fallen to us few that will unashamedly stand by the bible and preach God's Word.

I'm a new member and can't have a signature yet, but when I can, it shall read;



Dear JoelB,

I'm very proactive in the defense of faith, especially origins theology, so we shall no doubt cross paths as we also cross paths with our other brothers-in-arms on the matter.

I'm trying to rename as well. I had hoped to make a sly dig at JO but the opposite has happened with people thinking I am a fan. That cannot stand!

Either way, look forward to holding the wall with you, brother.



Yes, I joined yesterday. A lot more literal interpretation folks here than I'd imagined. I think I'll fit in nicely

Thanks for the reps!

Dear Joel,

I see you've got an Avatar. A really NICE One, tbh {to be honest}. I will get your new Avatar on my Friends' Wall, instead of what I have already. It might already be changed. This website is really good about that. Well, I have to go now. I'll be back at midnight or so.

Much Love, In Christ!

Michael

alwight is :first: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:

​

 

[MichaelCadry]

MichaelCadry,
re: "...Peter had the trance. Paul wrote about it."

And I ask you again; "Where does Paul write about it?"


re: "Then, the angel, I guess, said 'What God has made clean, is clean,'...

Actually, that is not what was said. Acts 10:15KJV reads: "What God hath cleansed you must not call common.

Big difference between clean and common.

BTW, in your post #10709 you wrote: "Try reading Acts 10 KJV and also Act 11 KJV, and tell me what do you think." I told you what I think in post #10733. So far you have not addressed that post.

Dear rstrats,

And what does Acts 10:13-15KJV say. "Rise, Peter; kill, and eat."; But Peter said, "Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing the is common or unclean." After that it follows that after another try, the voice says "What God hath 'cleansed,' that call not thou 'common.'" Why would he say cleansed and clean also? Why do you try to sneak like the serpent in the garden of Eden? You can read it for yourself, but you will only come up with your same response because you don't want to be wrong.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

No Michael, you have no credibility in my eyes, sorry. But that is the truth. You demonstrate that you are incompetent and arrogant in regards to science. And that you try to compensate for that by claiming faith in God and being "extra" friendly with people, until they are honest with you. And then you get rather venomous in a very irrational manner. IOW, your critique has no substance. The fact that you try to appeal to our friendship as a way to convince me of your nonsense does not work on me.

[font="Modern No. 20"]

Dear noguru,

I'm sorry. I thought that you might forgive me as Jesus and God told us to do. If Jesus said it, then God said it. I'm not trying to be incompetent or arrogant. I, of course, was quite upset about things. If God can forgive me, and Jesus also, then you can't.
It's okay. I am asking for too much, I think.

Much Love, In Christ!!

Michael

Alwight is :first: :angel: :angel: :rapture: :cloud9:

​

[/font]

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Michael,

Absolutely I think not, and please quit embarrassing yourself by making such blithering asinine nonsensical claims. The big bang theory was the result of a natural question about Hubble’s expansion of the universe. Since you paint yourself as a YEC (now), you really should remember that the big bang timeline disagrees with literal Genesis by a factor of over a million times. You OK with that?

BJ,

You think they are blithering, asinine, nonsensical claims. Some scientists have said the Big Bang theory was similar to God's creation of the Universe. And your 'over a million times factor' is for people who are without faith. We believe He did it at least 6-7,000 years ago. You forget that it says that "God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also {the Universe}... "And the evening and the morning were the 'fourth' day." You have your scientific timeline and we have a Biblical timeline. I don't believe in your millions and billions. Your dating methods are full of BS. Now, DavisBJ, you may not believe in God or in the Bible, but you are way outnumbered by other people in the world. The Bible is still the #1 selling Book. These people don't have faith for nothing. They just believe the Truth, unlike you. Do you know that our Bible says, in the first book of Genesis, that God made the grass, plants, etc. on the day before He made our Sun and Moon, and the stars of Heaven. I mean, the trees and plants needed some sunlight to grow. And He did all of this within six days.

More nonsense. Actually, reference to the Bible is very rare in science. The very operating premise of science is that it restricts itself to natural causes and explanations. Since you were born, how many peer-reviewed scientific articles can you list that have any reliance on any scriptural text – Bible, Koran, Bhagavad Gita, etc?

No, not more nonsense. That's what you say to everything. I can think of a number of instances. Did you know that our Moon is full of water, to be poured on the Earth during a Great Flood. There are tons of water in it. They don't have to have scriptural text. Scientists said so. You missed that, eh? Look how you narrow it down. Science has continually been trying to discover ancient cities, reasons for the Heavy Salt in Sodom and Gomorrah, reasons that agree with the Creation story, the Great Flood, the parting of the Red Sea, etc." You just try to weasel yourself out of everything, don't you?

Michael, my friend, it is sad watching you make up lies like you have here - one after another - to try to give legitimacy to your favorite dogma. If you are upset with me or Noguru, back away for a day or so, think about things, and remember that you are dishonoring your God and sacrificing whatever crumbs of credibility you had when you engage in fabricating BS like this.

Well thank you, DavisBJ! I didn't know we could say that on TOL. All of this time I've been trying to withhold it from explaining your antics. Don't act like I'm upset with Noguru. You are the one I'm upset with. You started it all, not him. God loves me, forgives me, and the task goes onward. The task will end very soon.

And, I have to eat humble pie. I realized yesterday that I overlooked counting one of my mistakes, so that makes 4. But since I did overlook that one, the overlooking itself was a mistake, so that makes 5. You happy now? My mistake count has increase by 67% in just a couple days. That makes me livid. I am furious. Schucky darn. (Is that a swear word?).

You are quite mistaken. {I could have said you are full of... but I don't want to}. You've made numerous mistakes not believing that God is in charge of The Creation; for creating life, and mankind and for not believing in the Bible. That means you don't believe in Adam, Noah, Abraham, Lot, Melchizedek, Methuselah, Joshua, King David of Israel, or Solomon, or Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Jesus, John the Baptist, etc. I could go on and on, BJ. You're already past 7,000 mistakes from all of the related stuff you've procured. Yep, you have tons of mistakes that you just don't realize yet. I have this feeling you're going to find out.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, i forgot to tell you that as much as i disagree with you, i still wish you peace.

Dear noguru,

I understand. Thanks for your thoughts! I really appreciate your post. I wish you peace also, and much more, noguru.

Tons Of Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :rapture: :rapture: :cloud9:

 

[rstrats]

MichaelCadry,

You said that Paul wrote about Peter's vision. I've asked where Paul has done that? So far you have yet to answer that question. Why? Why won't you show any writing by Paul where he talks about Peter's vision?


Also, you said that the voice told Peter: 'What God has made clean, is clean'. Where does the voice say that?


You ask why I try to sneak like the serpent in the garden of Eden? Where have I done that? And where does scripture say that the serpent was sneaking around?


And you still haven't addressed my post #10733 reply to the request that you made to me in your post #10709. Why not?