Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael, I used to have a Ford Escort XR3i (with spoiler) many years ago.
These days I have a 2014 VW Golf so I don't expect any problems.

Dear Alwight,

That sounds splendid!! I've never even heard of an XR3i. Congratulations!! So you had a Ford car in England/Isle of Wight? I'm surprised. They have to ship those cars to Great Britain on a boat, eh? Now I see you've got an even newer car, from Germany, so you might like that just fine. Closer to the manufacturer. What is the VW Golf like? Is it part electric? I bet you get wonderful petrol mileage on it. Al, you know it turns out that my car just needed a new Fuel Pump. I had a new one put in about 6 mos. ago, but it was not good, so they installed a new one for me for FREE!! No charge, even for labor. I am ONE HAPPY LARK!! Didn't cost me a cent. I just can't believe the Auto Mechanic I went to was so honest. It floored me. Now it runs great!!

Most Christians here at least probably accept that the Earth is many millions of years old, not just a few thousand.
In the US however there are many more fundamentalists who seem to prefer to remain wilfully ignorant of science and simply believe that the Bible is literally true regardless. You should talk to Christians who are able to think for themselves rather than adhere literally to ancient scripture. There really doesn't have to be any conflict imo.:nono:
:rapture:

Al, I can understand that they accept that the Earth is millions of years old. I too ponder and consider it, but I'm still stuck being willfully ignorant of science. But I am considering it, whereas before I was not. You've got to understand that these feelings run extremely deep and it is not going to change without God Himself telling me. So I am praying about it. I will continue to wonder and analyze about it, and hopefully come out with the right answer. Thanks for caring Al and trying to help. I do appreciate it. You are an excellent friend.

May Your Life Be Enriched By Much Love!!

Michael

:sam:

:help:

 

[MichaelCadry]

The Father of creation is an evolutionist. ​

Dear Caino,

You have no proof of that, so why do you say it?! You've got your hands full already hanging on to those Urantia Papers and Book. Eeekkk!! Do you know how many brain cells you've used up learning all of that Urantia bunk? It's a good think that we have a lot. When God clarifies to me when I face Him that He is an evolutionist, then I will take heed, but until then, not so.

Why are there so few people who believe in or follow this Urantia story anyway. Some people just fall into your trap, eh? Whoa to those who cause this.

Michael

:doh:

:carryon:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Caino,

What makes you think that God is an evolutionist? How much Christian teaching have you had by now? A lot? It is a shame that you've landed up in the prying hands of Urantia. I don't mean to be hard on you. I'm just against teaching other impressionable young people about these strange cult beliefs. Eloquent language just doesn't cut it. How long have you been a Hindu/Urantia person? Does this 'religion' or 'spirituality' involve the Holy Ghost or the Immaculate Conception? Seems like you all agree with everyone so they will believe you. Do you believe that Jesus was crucified and rose 3 days later? Let me know. Thanks, Caino.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Kdall,

Are you unbanned by now? I hope everything is going well. Sorry you had to go through that! Maybe it will never happen again. Yesterday was quite a day for me. My sister, Diana, had to go to the hospital and she is in ICU now. It is renal failure plus a liver problem. I'll be going to see her later this evening. Well, how do you feel about the Creation vs. Evolution premise. I believe that God performs ANY change in the lives of plants, animals and humans, and that He is Lord over all. No evolution, just God making a gene or genome change here, a change in atoms, nuclei, here and there, DNA or RNA changes. I believe that God is a Master Chemist. I still do not believe that God is an evolutionist. He is too pure for that and His roots are in religion, thus saying that the 6 day Creation in the Bible is fact. Why does anyone think that God could not mastermind all of this by creating an old universe, old earth, old marine life, middle-aged animals, plants and mankind. Adam was not one 1 day old when God created him. Adam was instead a young man created by God. Can't ANYONE understand this?

May God Guide You Always,

Michael

 

[Kdall]

Dear Caino,

What makes you think that God is an evolutionist? How much Christian teaching have you had by now? A lot? It is a shame that you've landed up in the prying hands of Urantia. I don't mean to be hard on you. I'm just against teaching other impressionable young people about these strange cult beliefs. Eloquent language just doesn't cut it. How long have you been a Hindu/Urantia person? Does this 'religion' or 'spirituality' involve the Holy Ghost or the Immaculate Conception? Seems like you all agree with everyone so they will believe you. Do you believe that Jesus was crucified and rose 3 days later? Let me know. Thanks, Caino.

Michael

I'll tell you why I think God would use evolution to create, apart from the physical evidence.


Which method makes more sense for the wisest being in existence to use?

1. He created all life in an unchanging form. Millions of species die in extinctions, and God has to make more life from scratch every single time one species dies.

2. He created life that has the ability to conform to changing environments. Extinctions happen, but as long as some survive, life forms can diversify and replenish the Earth. Only one initial creation is necessary.


1 is basic. It's simple. It requires God to be constantly creating forever.

2 is complex and efficient. It only needs a gentle nudge to get started, and then for the rest of time it will automatically create and diversify life.


A truly wise God would not create using an inefficient method that a 4 year old would use. He'd use the most efficient means possible.

 

[Kdall]

Dear Kdall,

Are you unbanned by now? I hope everything is going well. Sorry you had to go through that! Maybe it will never happen again. Yesterday was quite a day for me. My sister, Diana, had to go to the hospital and she is in ICU now. It is renal failure plus a liver problem. I'll be going to see her later this evening. Well, how do you feel about the Creation vs. Evolution premise. I believe that God performs ANY change in the lives of plants, animals and humans, and that He is Lord over all. No evolution, just God making a gene or genome change here, a change in atoms, nuclei, here and there, DNA or RNA changes. I believe that God is a Master Chemist. I still do not believe that God is an evolutionist. He is too pure for that and His roots are in religion, thus saying that the 6 day Creation in the Bible is fact. Why does anyone think that God could not mastermind all of this by creating an old universe, old earth, old marine life, middle-aged animals, plants and mankind. Adam was not one 1 day old when God created him. Adam was instead a young man created by God. Can't ANYONE understand this?

May God Guide You Always,

Michael

Sorry to hear about your sister. I hope she gets what is needed to get better

 

[alwight]

Dear Alwight,

That sounds splendid!! I've never even heard of an XR3i. Congratulations!! So you had a Ford car in England/Isle of Wight? I'm surprised. They have to ship those cars to Great Britain on a boat, eh? Now I see you've got an even newer car, from Germany, so you might like that just fine. Closer to the manufacturer. What is the VW Golf like? Is it part electric? I bet you get wonderful petrol mileage on it. Al, you know it turns out that my car just needed a new Fuel Pump. I had a new one put in about 6 mos. ago, but it was not good, so they installed a new one for me for FREE!! No charge, even for labor. I am ONE HAPPY LARK!! Didn't cost me a cent. I just can't believe the Auto Mechanic I went to was so honest. It floored me. Now it runs great!!

Hi Michael,
When I had a Ford Escort I lived in London but I suspect that only the name is the same as yours, since it was probably made in Dagenham East London.
I think the VW Golf is or was called a Rabbit in the US?
I think all modern cars are built better these days, even American ones. But VWs always were well put together.
It has many electric parts of course but it isn't a hybrid or anything. It is very economical yet still has great performance with plenty of clever gadgets.

With a new fuel pump Michael your car might see you to the end of days?

Al, I can understand that they accept that the Earth is millions of years old. I too ponder and consider it, but I'm still stuck being willfully ignorant of science. But I am considering it, whereas before I was not. You've got to understand that these feelings run extremely deep and it is not going to change without God Himself telling me. So I am praying about it. I will continue to wonder and analyze about it, and hopefully come out with the right answer. Thanks for caring Al and trying to help. I do appreciate it. You are an excellent friend.

May Your Life Be Enriched By Much Love!!

Michael

:sam:

:help:

I've never asked you to give up your belief in God or Jesus and never will, just don't disregard facts and reality simply because of words written in an ancient unverifiable scripture of unknown authorship as fundamentalists do.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I'll tell you why I think God would use evolution to create, apart from the physical evidence.


Which method makes more sense for the wisest being in existence to use?

1. He created all life in an unchanging form. Millions of species die in extinctions, and God has to make more life from scratch every single time one species dies.

2. He created life that has the ability to conform to changing environments. Extinctions happen, but as long as some survive, life forms can diversify and replenish the Earth. Only one initial creation is necessary.


1 is basic. It's simple. It requires God to be constantly creating forever.

2 is complex and efficient. It only needs a gentle nudge to get started, and then for the rest of time it will automatically create and diversify life.


A truly wise God would not create using an inefficient method that a 4 year old would use. He'd use the most efficient means possible.

Dear Kdall,

Thanks for your ideas. I do not say that God created plants and animals, and humans, just once, but that they all have seed within themselves per se, to keep on existing. I'm just saying that certain changes that are deemed desirable or necessary by God, He changes Himself, not by 'natural selection.' Also God has not been resting since the Saturday after the Creation, when He rested for one day. He is still creating all the time, expanding the Universe, working on tweaks in certain creations He has made, etc. Otherwise, He wouldn't have much of anything to do for all of these 'billions' of years. He is still very much at work and will only enter His Rest after Jesus returns. Then Jesus will rule. God will stay on the sidelines and help the Lord Jesus as necessary. But God will keep busy enough. Glad to have you back Buddy!!

With Much Love, In Christ,

Michael

:sam:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Sorry to hear about your sister. I hope she gets what is needed to get better

Dear Kdall,

Thank you Kdall!! My sister Diana is doing a lot better. I just got back from seeing her about 1/2 hour ago. She is about a 40 minutes or so from where I live. But it's a better hospital. Anyway, one problem with her was that she was terribly low on her iron level. It's suppose to be something like 50 and she was at 6. So they are giving her iron through an IV. She was in ICU all last night and they finally moved her into a room of her own. I took her an Easter Lily, something that doesn't die too quickly. She liked it. Hey, you take real good care yourself too!!

God Bless You Tons!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael,
When I had a Ford Escort I lived in London but I suspect that only the name is the same as yours, since it was probably made in Dagenham East London.
I think the VW Golf is or was called a Rabbit in the US?
I think all modern cars are built better these days, even American ones. But VWs always were well put together.
It has many electric parts of course but it isn't a hybrid or anything. It is very economical yet still has great performance with plenty of clever gadgets.

With a new fuel pump Michael your car might see you to the end of days?

Oh yes, I think VWs are a solid, well-built car indeed. Sounds like a fun car. So you had a Ford when you lived in London? When was that? Isn't London awfully expensive now!! Yep my car should make it til the 'end of days!' And your car is a cinch to make it, too!! Alwight, I do not believe that there shall be an end of days, just a big change on the Earth. Our Bible says there will be men and women on Earth a lot longer than Jesus' returning. This is just the latter years; Armageddon and the Resurrection. The meek shall inherit the Earth, don't forget!!

I've never asked you to give up your belief in God or Jesus and never will, just don't disregard facts and reality simply because of words written in an ancient unverifiable scripture of unknown authorship as fundamentalists do.

Well, Al, I know you never asked me to give up my beliefs and I do appreciate that. It is one very important fact that we are such good friends. I am pondering things over, but I still can't get over some hurdles, but I'm sure I'll do the right thing in the end. 4.5 billion years though, is quite a Loooooong time! Do you see how I am using boxes in quotes?? That's because of you!! For being understanding and patient with me, I now am able to do it. Thanks Tons, Mate!!

Will PM you!!

Michael

Michael


:sam:

 

[MichaelCadry]

I'll tell you why I think God would use evolution to create, apart from the physical evidence.


Which method makes more sense for the wisest being in existence to use?

1. He created all life in an unchanging form. Millions of species die in extinctions, and God has to make more life from scratch every single time one species dies.

This is totally ridiculous. Millions is a bit of a stretch indeed. And God does not have to make more life from scratch. When a species dies, it's gone. God does not remake it.

2. He created life that has the ability to conform to changing environments. Extinctions happen, but as long as some survive, life forms can diversify and replenish the Earth. Only one initial creation is necessary.

1 is basic. It's simple. It requires God to be constantly creating forever.

2 is complex and efficient. It only needs a gentle nudge to get started, and then for the rest of time it will automatically create and diversify life.

God does not need to be constantly creating forever. That is bunk. God's creations develop from seed, whether foliage, marine life, animals or humans, we all develop from seed, from one female and one male. God does not have to recreate.

A gentle nudge? More like an extensive push!

A truly wise God would not create using an inefficient method that a 4 year old would use. He'd use the most efficient means possible.

God is no 4 year old. But He is quite efficient. You don't know God. You notice He did not recreate a unicorn. It says in the Bible that they once existed. See Num. 23:22KJV, Job 39:9KJV, Psalm 29:6KKJV, Psalm 92:10KJV, Isaiah 34:7, etc. Now if and when things go extinct, God does NOT recreate them. Kdall, you are a Christian, but instead of believing Our Bible's Creation Situation, you turn to Science for their answers instead, just because you think they are right. You could be told that the Universe is 1.5 million years old, and would never know the difference. Right?

God Be With You, Kdall,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Kdall,

How are you doing? Am I asking questions that are too hard to answer? I don't mean it to be that way.

God Be With You In Spirit,

Michael

 

[Kdall]

This is totally ridiculous. Millions is a bit of a stretch indeed. And God does not have to make more life from scratch. When a species dies, it's gone. God does not remake it.



God does not need to be constantly creating forever. That is bunk. God's creations develop from seed, whether foliage, marine life, animals or humans, we all develop from seed, from one female and one male. God does not have to recreate.

A gentle nudge? More like an extensive push!



God is no 4 year old. But He is quite efficient. You don't know God. You notice He did not recreate a unicorn. It says in the Bible that they once existed. See Num. 23:22KJV, Job 39:9KJV, Psalm 29:6KKJV, Psalm 92:10KJV, Isaiah 34:7, etc. Now if and when things go extinct, God does NOT recreate them. Kdall, you are a Christian, but instead of believing Our Bible's Creation Situation, you turn to Science for their answers instead, just because you think they are right. You could be told that the Universe is 1.5 million years old, and would never know the difference. Right?

God Be With You, Kdall,

Michael

Michael, scientific theories and laws are hypotheses that have stood up to all scrutiny for decades at the least, and have overwhelming evidence that backs them.

These are not beliefs. They are observed, measured, or proven through the equations of physical laws (i.e. light speed), laws that have been entirely responsible for the unparalleled rate of technological advancements over the last century.

Are you not willing to either read a book or do internet research [FROM NON-BIASED SOURCES] on any one of the natural sciences? If you do this then you'll see how we know that 1.5 billion years is far too young for our universe's age, among other things. A young Earth is by no means a requirement for Christian belief, just as geocentrism wasn't, yet was held onto by Christians for decades after it was disproven.

I will swear to you on anything that unicorns are fantasy, as will 99% of the world. Christians don't believe this either.

As of today, more than 300 genera of dinosaur have been discovered. Within each genus there are several species. Even the most conservative spin of that requires that more than 900 species of dinosaur existed, and there's no sign that more species won't continue to turn up at the same rate. That's not even counting the thousands of other prehistoric vertebrates, plus the millions, yes millions, of extinct invertebrate species. There is no possible way to support so much life.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, scientific theories and laws are hypotheses that have stood up to all scrutiny for decades at the least, and have overwhelming evidence that backs them.

These are not beliefs. They are observed, measured, or proven through the equations of physical laws (i.e. light speed), laws that have been entirely responsible for the unparalleled rate of technological advancements over the last century.

Do you know that, if we see things according to the speed of light, that a star we think is still there could actually have burned out, but their lack of light hasn't reached us yet. In other words, these quasars, whose light takes tons of light years for us to see them, were actually created before anyone on Earth, perhaps even before the Earth was created. I guess you just don't understand. You don't know how the Lord God stretched out the Heavens. Don't keep making it all up according to what science might say. Science has been known to be way off before. They thought Pluto was a planet, then it was not, and now it is again, and they've found two other planets that we didn't know about in our solar system. It's all just too much. And I have read books about some of the natural sciences. A lot of it makes sense to me just fine. But not evolution. They never taught me about CREATION in school. How convenient.

Are you not willing to either read a book or do internet research [FROM NON-BIASED SOURCES] on any one of the natural sciences? If you do this then you'll see how we know that 1.5 billion years is far too young for our universe's age, among other things. A young Earth is by no means a requirement for Christian belief, just as geocentrism wasn't, yet was held onto by Christians for decades after it was disproven.

I will swear to you on anything that unicorns are fantasy, as will 99% of the world. Christians don't believe this either.

As of today, more than 300 genera of dinosaur have been discovered. Within each genus there are several species. Even the most conservative spin of that requires that more than 900 species of dinosaur existed, and there's no sign that more species won't continue to turn up at the same rate. That's not even counting the thousands of other prehistoric vertebrates, plus the millions, yes millions, of extinct invertebrate species. There is no possible way to support so much life.

Well, I suppose that's why God didn't create the same animal after it went extinct. Kdall, I will meet you halfway. I will post real soon what I believed when I came here. It answered all of these ridiculous questions. I will pray and get back to you 2morrow hopefully. It always depends on how my day goes. I've got to go visit my sister in the hospital again 2morrow {I didn't go there today}. I may surprise you and even agree with you. I may not. Let's see what happens. Hang in there. I need time to think.

Good night Kdall. I'm going to chow on some pudding!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear 6days,

Hey Buddy! You got any time available to post here. Your posts here might be pretty helpful. Thanks, 6days!! I'd like your opinions on some things regarding the age of the Universe and Earth, and mankind.

Praise God And Jesus, And The Holy Ghost!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Kdall,

Why don't you answer Post #7935. Cat got your tongue?

To An Evolutionist Christian Brother,

Michael

 

[6days]

Michael, scientific theories and laws are hypotheses that have stood up to all scrutiny for decades at the least, and have overwhelming evidence that backs them.

These are not beliefs. They are observed, measured, or proven through the equations of physical laws (i.e. light speed), laws that have been entirely responsible for the unparalleled rate of technological advancements over the last century.

Our beliefs about the past are not "observed, measured, proven". Science is about doing repeatable experiments on things in the present.

Are you not willing to either read a book or do internet research [FROM NON-BIASED SOURCES] on any one of the natural sciences? If you do this then you'll see how we know that 1.5 billion years is far too young for our universe's age, among other things. A young Earth is by no means a requirement for Christian belief, just as geocentrism wasn't, yet was held onto by Christians for decades after it was disproven.

Michael...Keep in mind it is a biased person asking you to only read biased sources. Everyone has a bias...everyone has some beliefs about our origins. Putting a white lab coat on an atheist, or a Biblical scientist does not magically eliminate their bias.

The only source of unbiased ultimate truth is God's Word.
(If you wish, I can refer you to some great articles by scientists who understand God's Word is truth)

 

[Stuu]

Our beliefs about the past are not "observed, measured, proven".

That's particularly true of christianity's claims about Jesus.

But I guess your bias will have one rule for empirical science and another rule for ancient Jewish prophets.

Stuart

 

[6days]

That's particularly true of christianity's claims about Jesus.

But I guess your bias will have one rule for empirical science and another rule for ancient Jewish prophets.

Stuart

The same rule applies.
We can't use the scientific method (repeatable observable experiments) on our beliefs about the past. We examine things that exist in the present, making conclusions about the past.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Our beliefs about the past are not "observed, measured, proven". Science is about doing repeatable experiments on things in the present.

Michael...Keep in mind it is a biased person asking you to only read biased sources. Everyone has a bias...everyone has some beliefs about our origins. Putting a white lab coat on an atheist, or a Biblical scientist does not magically eliminate their bias.

The only source of unbiased ultimate truth is God's Word.
(If you wish, I can refer you to some great articles by scientists who understand God's Word is truth)

Dear 6days,

Thank you TONS for coming to help me out!!! I'm so happy that you decided to. I could use an article by a scientist who believes the Earth is 7,000 years old and man is 7,000 years old. Do you have anything like that, 6days? Or am I supposed to believe the Earth is old and man is young? Especially when they consider man is 1.5 million years old, and I do not agree.

May God Bless You For Doing His Work, 6days!!

Michael


:sam: