Creation vs. Evolution

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alwight

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Dear Alwight,

How are things going with you lately? It's been a while. Things are going quite well here. My sister Diana is having her gall bladder surgery tomorrow. She already has Multiple Sclerosis, so we are hoping she is strong enough for the operation. I am praying. It will be removed by robotics and if necessary, they will cut her open. Then she'll have to stay one more day in the hospital and be released.
Hi Michael, of course I wish your sister all the best, I'm sure it will all work out fine.

How is your health doing? Pretty good, I hope!!
Yes, I can't grumble too much. ;)


I've already had mine removed, years ago. A cinch! Well, we've been discussing Creation and Evolution here for a few days now. How the Piltdown man was a big hoax for 40 years so people would believe in evolution. Do you remember that? It was probably way before your time. 1912, I think. That would make it 1952 if it continued for 40 years. I was born in 1955. I'm 59. Will be 60 this October.
I think you've been listening to too many YECs if you ask me. The Piltdown man was a hoax but it wasn't about trying to persuade people that evolution was true, it was about obtaining personal notoriety and fame.
Science itself in due course falsified the Piltdown man as a hoax. It had no bearing or effect on the truth of evolution, yet YECs, even today, trot it out as though it was some grand scientific conspiracy which somehow makes all other genuine evidence false, which is clearly nonsense. :nono:

My diabetes flared up again. I will get some medicine from the doctor this week. I also have anemia, so I have to get some iron supplements. My iron is low. My multivitamin doesn't have any iron in it. I'm really shocked. I'm going to change my multivitamins to something much better. You exercise more than I do, I think. So you're probably more spry. I don't have a bike to ride. I wish I had one of those ride-in-place bikes.
You'd be better off drinking an occasional pint of Guinness Michael, if you can get it where you are, it's got plenty of iron in it. My bike's remained folded up in a store cupboard over winter, I'll try to dig it out sometime.

How has your weather been doing? Not cold, I hope. Spring has come here in Phoenix. We got up to 97 degrees the other day. Broke a record. Do you have a little garden at all, Alwight? We grow artichokes here, and tomatoes, and oranges, and green peppers. Plus roses and other flowers. It's planting time right now. Artichoke plants look like HUGE dandelion plants, with the vegetable growing on stalks up through the middle. They are so expensive in the grocery stores ($3 each).
It's been a bit windy here but not too cold, but not bike weather, I'm no gardener, I buy my veg at the supermarket.

Alwight, I want to apologize to you also if I've ever said something bad to you. I learned in Church this past Palm Sunday that I might not be as nice as I could be. So I regret that. I tried to tell noguru also, but I couldn't get a PM to him. I hope he catches wind of it. Mark SeaSigh told me to tell you Hi!! We spoke on the phone a couple days ago. I do hope you're taking good care of yourself and that you are happy! Please wish my sister well, Alwight. Thank you so much!!

Have A Joyful Life And Make It Count!!

Michael
Yes, again all my best to your sister Michael, but I have no idea what you are apologising for. :idunno:
 

Kdall

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Dear 6days,

Thanks so much for all of your help and for defending me, and for giving me so much info that I can peruse to find others that believe the way that I do. I feel like I have been too hard on the evolutionists and atheists on this website, so I'm sending out a big I'm sorry to them all, and that I do practice was Christ preached. I'm SORRY Hedshaker, Stuart, noguru, gcthomas, The Barbarian, Kdall, and dennyg1, and everyone whom I've left out. Please FORGIVE me, honestly!! You all just know how to hit the wrong buttons with me, but I know I have not been as kind as I could have with you all. Notwithstanding, be very kind to my excellent friends 6days and Alwight. They have stood out indeed and I can't thank them enough. I learned in Church today to have a bigger heart than I've been having. Thank God for the new me. And THANK YOU 6DAYS!!!

God Be With Us All In The Days To Come!!

Michael

You have nothing to apologize for. You and whoever else are welcome to believe whatever you want. The only problems come when some like 6days say that certain things are fact, when really they are only belief. Or saying things that are untrue, such as his statements about the Piltdown hoax.


Despite what he's told you, we commonly see evolution in creatures with simple genomes, like bacteria and viruses. Why do we need a new flu vaccine every year? Because the flu virus develops immunity after a few months, and a new vaccine is needed to combat the newly evolved flu virus.
All of the drug-resistant bacteria you hear about? They became drug-resistant in response to the medicines that were used to treat them, and today some species have evolved immunity to so many medicines that they are very hard to treat (like MRSA).
The bacteria that had mutations giving them protection from our medicines survived while normal ones died, and all of the bacteria that come from the survivors also are protected. That's how "super bugs" are made

You don't have to accept evolution or anything else in science, but it's inaccurate to say there isn't evidence
 

MichaelCadry

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Hi Michael, of course I wish your sister all the best, I'm sure it will all work out fine.

Yes, I can't grumble too much. ;)

Dear Alwight,

It's so dang good to hear from you. I look forward to hearing from you each time. Thank you for keeping my sister in your thoughts. She made it through the gall bladder operation today just fine. They did it with robotics, so there's minimal scarring. Al, it was just scary because she has MS (multiple sclerosis) too, so it makes everything worse. She only weighs 108 lbs. She's allergic to almost every food and drug. It's a travesty.

I am glad to hear that you are doing fine health-wise! You sure are blessed. My doctor's nurse called me this morning wanting me to set up an appt. with my doctor to see about me going on a diabetes and anemia treatment plan. I hope I can just take the pills. I will not use needles, so they might as well get that idea out of their heads. I will die first. I don't really drink Guiness/beer because it tastes bitter to me. Sometimes I will have wine or a mixed drink. I will have to just take iron pills, buddy!!

I think you've been listening to too many YECs if you ask me. The Piltdown man was a hoax but it wasn't about trying to persuade people that evolution was true, it was about obtaining personal notoriety and fame.
Science itself in due course falsified the Piltdown man as a hoax. It had no bearing or effect on the truth of evolution, yet YECs, even today, trot it out as though it was some grand scientific conspiracy which somehow makes all other genuine evidence false, which is clearly nonsense. :nono:

Yep, they were saying it proved Darwin's theories, etc. in the London newspaper. Oh, I didn't know it was about getting famous. How sneaky. Trying to file some jawbones down so they'd fit is what I heard. I never knew about it until yesterday.

You'd be better off drinking an occasional pint of Guinness Michael, if you can get it where you are, it's got plenty of iron in it. My bike's remained folded up in a store cupboard over winter, I'll try to dig it out sometime.


It's been a bit windy here but not too cold, but not bike weather, I'm no gardener, I buy my veg at the supermarket.

Yes, again all my best to your sister Michael, but I have no idea what you are apologising for. :idunno:

Hey Alwight, I've never had a Guiness! I suppose it tastes like beer. So you store your bike away for the winter, eh? You're lucky that is a folding bike. Cool!! We bought a tomato plant, a green pepper plant, and a strawberry plant today. They are already flowering, so that means fruit and veggies. They are very healthy plants, I must admit. And the artichoke plant has been growing all winter, out there. It should bear fruit this year. Hopefully, we'll get at least 3 artichokes from it. They produce more and more every year they grow. They get bigger and bigger. We couldn't grow them in Michigan. In Michigan, we had a garden that was an 1/8 of an acre. I always got stuck tilling it each spring and fall. It was a lot of work, but we had so many different kinds of fruits and vegetables.

Hey Al, if you think I don't need to apologize, then maybe all is okay. I felt like sometimes I was too snippy with other people. I don't try to be. It just sometimes happens and I dread it. Well, winter is finally over and the good weather comes, hopefully. It wouldn't surprise me if they got snow again up north. The weather is unpredictable, to be honest. You never know what you're going to get.

Well, Buddy, you take good care of yourself and hopefully we'll talk again in a few days. If sooner, that's fine too!

Hope That All Your Dreams Come True!!

Michael


:drum: :thumb:
 

MichaelCadry

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You have nothing to apologize for. You and whoever else are welcome to believe whatever you want. The only problems come when some like 6days say that certain things are fact, when really they are only belief. Or saying things that are untrue, such as his statements about the Piltdown hoax.

Thank you Kdall. I thought I might have upset you last time we chatted. Sometimes, I am too snippy. Yep, I never heard about the Piltdown man til yesterday or so. What does Piltdown mean? File down?

Despite what he's told you, we commonly see evolution in creatures with simple genomes, like bacteria and viruses. Why do we need a new flu vaccine every year? Because the flu virus develops immunity after a few months, and a new vaccine is needed to combat the newly evolved flu virus.
All of the drug-resistant bacteria you hear about? They became drug-resistant in response to the medicines that were used to treat them, and today some species have evolved immunity to so many medicines that they are very hard to treat (like MRSA).
The bacteria that had mutations giving them protection from our medicines survived while normal ones died, and all of the bacteria that come from the survivors also are protected. That's how "super bugs" are made

You don't have to accept evolution or anything else in science, but it's inaccurate to say there isn't evidence

Yes, Kdall, I can see what you mean. Don't some of these viruses contain different strains, like a stomach virus or a sinus virus, or a flu virus, or a hanta virus or a Legionnaires virus, etc. My sister Diana got a swine flu vaccine and it gave her Multiple Sclerosis. She's been suffering for decades now because of it. Now, she can't have any virus shot with eggs in it and she is also allergic to eggs, and many other foods and drugs.

Did you go to college Kdall? You see, I did not. I took some pre-med classes in high school because I wanted to be a doctor. But then when I found out that I would go in debt for years and have to go to school for 6 years, I changed my mind. But I did have Human Physiology, Chemistry, and Biology. So it's not like I am foreign to Science. Had my share of cadavers and dissecting. The stench! Phew!! Well, those days are long gone. Yes, and when I changed my mind about being a doctor, I thought I would be a Pharmacist, until I found out that I would go in debt for years and have to go to school for 6 years. I changed my mind on that too!! So do you see how they both went down the tubes. It's been a good life though, regardless. I hope the same for you, dude! Well, I'll get going. Let me know what city you live in or how old you are, if you want to. I am in Phoenix, AZ and am 59 years old. I've learned quite a lot in my life and enough to know that I don't want to go through it again. But I feel like I'm 18 years old inside. I have a lot of love inside also. God taught me that. And Jesus, and the Holy Ghost!

May God Replenish Your Spirit And Countenance,

Michael

:sam:
 

MichaelCadry

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Dear Kdall,

Thank you so very much for your selflessness and for the well wishes for my sister. I just talked to her caregiver and my sister is getting out of the hospital 2morrow. Excellent. She made it!!

God's Finest Angels Be With You,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

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I thought this was obvious, but evolution on a grander scale than minor speciation (which we've also observed) takes tens of thousands of years at the earliest in animals


Dear Kdall,

Don't feel badly about your example. I think that God controls very much which genomes, or genes, or DNA or atoms, protons, etc. are altered and He has His hand in it all. I don't believe in evolution. I believe in God and His Handiwork, busy at all times.

Much Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael

:angrymob:
 

MichaelCadry

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Check It Out:

6 Ways Science Reveals God’s Truth

Having a conversation regarding the intersection of faith and science with a rocket scientist, and corporate astronaut is remarkable. Dr. Leslie Wickman is more than a scientist--she’s a believer who explains science does reveal God, and how faith and science can coexist. We want to believe that there is something greater than ourselves, and that there is a bigger plan. Wickman affirms that modern science does reveal there is a bigger picture that starts with our vast universe.

4 Arguments

Here are the four arguments made regarding science and God. There is the cosmological argument which says there is a cause and effect. So there must have been a creator. The ontological argument says we have the idea in us there is a God, so God is the cause. The anthropological argument points to the universal absolute moral values because people experienced God, hence he exists. The teleological is the argument regarding order and design, so there had to be creator.

Big Bang

“When I look at what science tells us about the existence of God, What I’m looking for is what evidence we have that suggests that God is the best explanation,” Wickman said. “There has been a growing body of evidence accumulation for the big bang model of the universe, which basically says there was a beginning to all of this. At that beginning, space, matter, time came basically into existence.” In Genesis God created the heavens and the earth, and the big bang model tell us that in fact there was a beginning. "People of faith might cringe because it sounds naturalistic, but the reality the big bang model is God friendly.”

A Beginning

Astronomical discoveries show a vast universe that is beautifully woven Wickman wrote, and consistently points us to an orderly and consistent creator. Before the big bang model there was the steady state model that the universe always existed in the same state. Many scientists and philosophers were comfortable with this because it didn’t necessitate any explanation. “When evidence started mounting for the big bang, it made a lot of people uncomfortable in the sense now we have to deal with this beginning. Obviously, if there was a beginning there had to be a beginner or a cause for it.”

The Goldilocks Principle

Just look at the earth. The temperature, the water, and the vast lands, and how they are all interdependent on each other. The earth’s finely tuned characteristics as complex as it is, make the planet habitable for creation. The Goldilocks principle is the observation that something must fall into certain margins instead of extremes. The earth's distance from the sun, size, atmosphere, magnetic field, 24-hour rotation, and the axial tilt that gives us the four seasons are perfect. This is just a small list as it goes into the dozens of parameters that need to happen for the earth to be just right for us.

Order

Getting the earth so fine tuned explains a creator. “Some people have tried to count the probability of getting it just right is one chance in 10^250th power.” It’s like picking one atom from the entire universe, and statisticians say it is improbable, unless it’s rigged, Wickman explained. Meaning, it was designed by a creator and gain order. “The fact we have laws of the universe to study is remarkable.”

Intelligence Elsewhere

Wickman said she would be surprised if there was no life on other planets as God is a lot bigger than we could imagine. “I’d be a little surprised that we are the only intelligent beings created apart from heaven. It would be really arrogant of us to think that we're the only ones.” The universe is a really big place, and a possible multiverse is immeasurably bigger, so “I’m not threatened at all by the idea of a multiverse.” But there is always a period of an adjustment the faith community has, when there is a new discovery. Scientists once believed the earth was flat and at the center of everything. "The thought of the unknown scares people."

Think About All Of This,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear Kdall,

I was wondering if you missed a post to you. It is Post #7968. If you don't want to answer some of the questions, it's okay.

Praise God!!

Michael
 

6days

New member
I thought this was obvious, but evolution on a grander scale than minor speciation (which we've also observed) takes tens of thousands of years at the earliest in animals

Yes... we know you believe anything is possible in millions and millions of years but the evidence says otherwise. Speciation happens rapidly.... Speciation can happen in a few generation....Speciation is a result of information that alrwady exists in the genome...Speciation is evidence of our amazing Creator.
 

6days

New member
Yorhzik said:
kdall said:
we commonly see evolution in creatures with*simple genomes

:darwinsm:

I will explain why Yorhzik was having a chuckle.

If you know anything about biology, you would know that even the very simplest bacteria is highly complex and functional... evidence of Intelligent Design.

In an experiment, scientists tried to simulate the activity in the genome of the smallest known genomes of any organism (525 gene. Even one gene is extremely complex ... mutations never have and never will create a gene. ) The scientists had "a cluster of 128 computers running for 9 to 10 hours to actually generate the data on the 25 categories of molecules that are involved in the cell's lifecycle processes."
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/07/2...-is-simulated-by-software.html?referrer=&_r=0
Only an evolutionist denying our Creator could try dismiss such amazing complexity and design as "simple genome".
 
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Yorzhik

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I thought this was obvious, but evolution on a grander scale than minor speciation (which we've also observed) takes tens of thousands of years at the earliest in animals
You only think it's obvious because you believe what's told to you without looking at it yourself.

The simplest genomes are beyond what mutation and natural selection are capable of sustaining, much less changing to something else that works as well or better.
 

alwight

New member
Only an evolutionist denying our Creator could try dismiss such amazing complexity and design as "simple genome".
Except "evolutionists" don't really exist except for creationists perhaps, who seem to like to think that science conspires to deny a creator, mainly because they rather have to think that.
However those with rigorous training and exceptional abilities in scientific fields offer fact and evidence based answers to the complexity of life, that can be dismissed by the wilfully ignorant if they wish. Scientists otoh have no interest in denying anyone's God or gods, which would be outside of material reality and the scope of science.
 
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