heir
TOL Subscriber
The only way is to trust the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV! And He did do it for us, you liar!
Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV
Could God forgive without crucifixion?
- Thread starter Predi
- Start date
Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV
heir
TOL Subscriber
It never ceases to amaze me what lies you come up with! They all must have had the same disease then :rotfl:
Acts 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
more lies from you. The scripture saith otherwise:
Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
...
1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
...
2 Corinthians 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
...
Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Paul was not of the 12! Nor was his commission theirs!
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Predi
New member
There were many moments. I was actually never sure if I did that right. Then, after many years, I learned that the salvation Paul wrote about had nothing to do with our eternal destination.
care to explain that?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Of course our inheritance is part of it! Galatians 1:2-5 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV
Amen.
Cross Reference
New member
How so?
Cross Reference
New member
However, the understanding lies within its pages.
can you explain this?
Predi
New member
Too bad I don't go to any therapist... I could quit now as it's free here
I'm not sure where you're taking these ideas from. Biblical forgiveness is absolute, total, without yelling, "God will get you for that.". It's Acts 7:60... I love the passage where the angel touches Isaiah with a coal and says your sin is forgiven... that much it took... and it was during the Mosaic covenant...
Please check the actual meaning of the terms used in the Bible for 'vengeance.' Justice doesn't necessarily mean to punish the wicked ones.
I don't think so. I think real forgiveness wipes the slate clean.
When someone wrongs me, I quote Ephesians 4:32 in my head.
I don't expect my bad deeds to be punished by God and I want the same for others.
I encourage you to spend some time and research what the reason is that most of translations have the words "his" added in 1 Corinthians 5:5 even though that word is not in Greek.
Also, can you answer the question, how is the "salvation of spirit" different than "salvation of soul?"
If God is love, I believe He will not smack me for that very hard
I rest my case...
Most of us would find it impossible to fully understand something in English written a few hundred years ago and you claim something written in long dead languages, thousands of years ago, is not difficult?
And on top of all problems with language, there's a huge lobby of monster sized denominations, which get billions of dollars by forcing their interpretation of Bible verses sink deeply into people's minds, and they are so omnipresent that hardly anyone knows today what the Bible originally meant... and just you say... no it isn't.
I'm not saying I'm better than you and my truth is better than yours. I'm trying to be open to hew horizons and I want to be open to learning from you... I just believe you either trusted your priest/pastor too much or that you think you know way more than you actually do. Humility is a virtue really encouraged in the Bible, isn't it?
I was in quite a few Christian denominations, including the largest ones of the world, and in the beginning I was always happy that I finally found what I was looking for. But after the initial emotional WOW passed, I realized I still could not find full peace. And some verses of the Bible never made sense, whether I was in a traditional or protestant Church. There were just different verses here and there...
I couldn't find peace not only within myself, but I didn't see it in other members of the churches... and pastors... how come they say God is peace and they know Him intimately and they yell at their kids and wives for no reason?
How come they say they have absolute peace but start shaking when someone has different beliefs? Or... when someone takes the parking spot you hoped for?
In all denominations there were people who seemed to have peace ... perhaps 1 in a 100... and I started wondering - why doesn't anyone speak about this hypocrisy? Peace on lips only?
After some time, usually years, I was finding out there's so much bologna there... I realized that religion makes money only when they lie.
Let's assume, hypothetically, that you're a pastor of a 10K people church and you learn from the Bible one day there's no punishment of any kind from God, ever. You become a full universalist. Would you tell that to your congregation, where you get your 7 figure salary from?
Half the people would leave you because you'd be a heretic in their eyes, the other half would leave because God will forgive them anyway even if they do picnics on Sunday rather than church.
Truth seldom makes you rich.
Ask yourself if the theology you believe now gives you full peace, and can everyone you hang out with can confirm it.
my theology tells me full peace is not possible in this life
-it also tells me we sin everyday
-we must ask for help
-we must keep trying
-we must overcometh
Predi
New member
Sorry, I used a mental shortcut.
Today Christians usually see people as "saved" or "unsaved", the first group ending in heaven, second - in hell.
I don't believe such a thought ever crossed Paul's mind. I never see him worried about anyone "not saved" and never see him rushing people to preach before someone dies.
Predi
New member
Predi
New member
Do you believe the word "last" in 1 Corinthians 15:8 means that was the last direct revelation of God received during this dispensation?
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Being bitter/unforgiving is a dark Spiritual state of being, it has a power over those enslaved by it. It permeates all that you do, all that you say, all that you think. Forgiveness frees the heart and soul to have pity on the offender. It is not accomplished outside of Christ and His Spirit moving us. It is a product of trusting Christ personally, trusting Christ to judge. Accepting Christ's love and mercy on us and being filled it. It is a matter of the heart and soul. It is laying down our right to revenge in exchange for mercy and union with Christ.
It can move the Offender to repent as it is seen as coming from God because it is not natural.
Reconciliation and trust being rebuilt only comes with contriteness and an offender seeking forgiveness.
Ephesians 3:32
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Who will judge who is saved?
Cross Reference
New member
That is because he was always addressing born again, Spirit filled, Pentecostal Christians. In his thinking, there were no other to be called Christians if not of that disposition.
Cross Reference
New member
So, in the end after all is said and done, there really can't be a difference can there?
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
God's supreme justice is certainly instrumental. At the heart of the matter is God's holiness, inherent of perfect holiness and righteousness an intolerance of sin. To be alright with sin is to tolerate evil, would be evil. God cannot be of absolute holiness and tolerant of corruption, at the same time.
Why He chose the atonement of the Lord Jesus as His program is shrouded in a mystery nobody can completely know this side of heaven, beyond the indication only He could pay for sin we cannot, as sinful beings. In other words, a tainted being has no standing to grant perfect righteousness to anybody, including first of all themselves, a perfect, unblemished sacrifice required, this we know from the Old Testament. To me, this does beg the question why the Lord Jesus could not have done His teaching, offered one animal sacrifice for all, and returned to heaven: God is sovereign and can do whatever He wills. He can make clean who He wishes to make clean. God doesn't have to answer for how He does anything.
This leads to mysterious matters in heaven we can't ignore, discount, the rebellion of Satan and those who followed him, which I believe Jesus' work instrumental to his final defeat, to the glory of God, since Satan is also an accuser of God. For example, Satan could well have said that it's easy for God to be critical, since He's never had to suffer like His creatures on earth. I believe the work of the Lord Jesus also shuts the devil's mouth, for all time, but no real way of knowing things not revealed in scripture God has ordained we have no business knowing. God is infinite, could never be confined to a finite number of pages in any book. We only have what we need of the Lord Jesus, John 21:25.