Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

KingdomRose

New member
Your Governing Body has a lot of twisted information. Even Ray Franz said so and others at the Watchtower say so.

As for the rest of what you said, your Governing Body says the opposite. But if you want to disagree with the Governing Body then go for it. I say good for you.

Do you really think that I would say the opposite of what our Governing Body say? I am in the organization and know what's going on 24/7. You are not, and yet you think you know more than I do? The Governing Body is comprised of the most loving, kind, concerned, spiritual men that can be found on this planet. It's not weird that they would be denigrated by people, because Jesus himself was denigrated and accused of doing the Devil's work. He said his true followers would be hated just as he was.
 

KingdomRose

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There exists; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, yet, these three are ONE. In my humble opinion, our finite human minds cannot wrap THEMSELVES around such a concept, however, God, no doubt, expects us to believe that, TRUTH.

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Hey, it has been established that scholars have formed a consensus of opinion that I John 5:7 was ADDED some time much later than John wrote his first letter. It is a SPURIOUS addition.
 

musterion

Well-known member
I AGREE, but that doesn't mean you get to ignore the Granville sharp rule

It does mean that, actually. She's in a cult that has locked her eternal destiny in its grip based upon her continued obedience, or she'll burn up. She's not here to be convinced of anything; she's here to convince anyone who'll listen to her read a script that has been programmed into her mind. Meshak let that cat outta the bag long ago...the more people persecute her with neg reps, the more God will bless her because of it...so, "blessings!" Same thinking with KR, I expect.
 

JudgeRightly

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No, the meaning is "divine." Moffatt's Translation renders the verse: "...the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine." That is the meaning of "god" in that verse. Someone who was a powerful, influential, important Person, having emanated from heaven.

Already addressed.

Attrocious, isn't it.
They go to any lengths to hide their errors and deception.

Speaking of which .......

Here is an instance where they are deceptive about their translation of John 1:1



Jehovah's Witnesses wrongly translate John 1:1 as follows:
"Originally the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god"
- New World Translation, 1960 edition
(emphasis mine)


In their Appendix they have an article explaining why they translate it this way and they quote from A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament by Dana and Mantey to justify their translation.

Mantey, upon learning that he had been quoted, wrote a two page article showing that it is not proper to translate this verse as the Jehovah Witnesses had done. He entitled his article A Grossly Misleading Translation.
Mantey skillfully explains the grammar of this verse and the significance of the absence of the Greek article in the last phrase of verse 1.
Dr. Manley's article is reproduced below in full:



A GROSSLY MISLEADING TRANSLATION

John 1: 1 which reads "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God," is shockingly mistranslated, "Originally the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god," in a New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, published under !he auspices of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Since my name is used and our Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament is quoted on page 744 to seek to justify their translation, I am making this statement.

The translation suggested in our Grammar for the disputed passage is, "the Word was deity." Moffatt's rendering is "the Word was divine." Williams' translation is, "the Word was God himself." Each translation reflects the dominant idea in the Greek, For, whenever an article does not precede a noun in Greek, that noun can either be considered as emphasizing the character, nature, essence or quality of a person or thing, as theos (God) docs in John 1:1, or it can be translated in certain contexts as indefinite, as !hey have done. But of all the scholars in the world, as far as we know, none have translated this verse as Jehovah's Witnesses have.

If the Greek article occurred with both Word and God in John 1:1 the implication would be that they are one and the same person, absolutely identical. But John affirmed that "the Word was with (the) God" (the definite article preceding each noun), and in so writing he indicated his belief that they were distinct and separate personalities. Then John next stated that the Word was God, i.e., of the same family or essence that characterizes the Creator. Or, in other words, that both are of the same nature, and that nature is the highest in existence, namely, divine.

Examples where the noun in the predicate does not have an article, as in the above verse, are: John 4:24, "God is spirit" (not 'a' spirit; 1 John 4:16, "God is love" (not 'a' love); and Matthew 13:39, "the reapers are angels," i.e., they are the type of beings known as angels. In each instance the noun in the predicate was used to describe some quality or characteristic of the subject, whether as to nature or type.

The apostle John in the context of the introduction to his gospel is pulling all the stops out of language to portray not only the deity of Christ but also His equality with the Father. He states that the Word was in the beginning, that He was with God, that He was God and that all creation came into existence through Him and that not even one thing exists which was not created by Christ. What else could be said that John did not say? In John 1: 18 he explained that Christ has been so intimate with the Father that He was in His bosom and that He came to earth to exhibit or portray God. But if we had no other statement from John except that which is found in John 14:9, "He that has seen me has seen the Father," that would be enough to satisfy the seeking soul that Christ and God are the same in essence and that both are divine and equal in nature.

Besides, the whole tenor of New Testament revelation points in this direction. Compare Paul's declaration in Colossians 1:19 for instance: "That all the divine fullness should dwell in Him," or the statement in Hebrews 1:3, "He is the reflection of God's glory and the perfect representation of His being, and continues to uphold the universe by His mighty word" (Williams' translation). And note the sweeping, cosmic claim recorded in Matthew 28:19, "All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth."

And, if we contrast with that the belittling implication that Christ was only a god, do we not at once detect the discord? Does not such a conception conflict with the New Testament message both in whole and in part? Why, if John, in the midst of the idolatry of his day, had made such a statement would not the first century hearers and readers have gotten a totally inadequate picture of Christ who we believe is the Creator of the universe and the only Redeemer of humanity?

- Julius Robert Mantey, A.B., Th.D., Ph.D., D.D. Professor of Greek and New Testament Northern Baptist Theological Seminary Chicago, Illinois


 

JudgeRightly

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It does mean that, actually. She's in a cult that has locked her eternal destiny in its grip based upon her continued obedience, or she'll burn up. She's not here to be convinced of anything; she's here to convince anyone who'll listen to her read a script that has been programmed into her mind. Meshak let that cat outta the bag long ago...the more people persecute her with neg reps, the more God will bless her because of it...so, "blessings!" Same thinking with KR, I expect.

Then it is in our best interest to show those who read this thread, who are willing to learn, how what she says is not true, and to provide THE ONLY TRUE alternative to her cult, Jesus Christ who is Jehovah God.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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It does mean that, actually. She's in a cult that has locked her eternal destiny in its grip based upon her continued obedience, or she'll burn up. She's not here to be convinced of anything; she's here to convince anyone who'll listen to her read a script that has been programmed into her mind. Meshak let that cat outta the bag long ago...the more people neg rep her, the more God will bless her because of it...so, "blessings!" Same thinking with KR, I expect.

Programmed is the Key word here. These cultists have been brainwashed and manipulated into trusting a collection of falsehoods and anti-Christian concepts. Only the Holy Spirit can break through this mental blockade.
 

JudgeRightly

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Programmed is the Key word here. These cultists have been brainwashed and manipulated into trusting a collection of falsehoods and anti-Christian concepts. Only the Holy Spirit can break through this mental blockade.
Honestly, I don't think God is capable of breaking through someone's hardened heart. Remember Pharoah? He had all the miracles, signs, and wonders, all the evidence that he was wrong hurled at him, and still he rejected God.

I think only KR herself can break through her own hardened heart, but the only way she can do that is by humbling herself, acknowledging that she and those she follows might be wrong, and humbly seeking after the truth.
 

truthjourney

New member
Do you really think that I would say the opposite of what our Governing Body say? I am in the organization and know what's going on 24/7.
Well, I didn't think that you would say the opposite of what your Governing Body says but you just did. :)
You are in an organization that keeps information from the rank and file JW 24/7.

I find it interesting how JWs on different Christian forums contradict each other especially considering the claim about the unity among JWs.

You are not, and yet you think you know more than I do?
Yes I do. Mostly because I'm not biased the way you are and I'm not brainwashed by the Governing Body. So I see it like it really is.

The Governing Body is comprised of the most loving, kind, concerned, spiritual men that can be found on this planet.
Oh yeah sure. They are so kind, loving, concerned,....spiritual men. Especially when it comes to abused children. Give me a break.

It's not weird that they would be denigrated by people, because Jesus himself was denigrated and accused of doing the Devil's work. He said his true followers would be hated just as he was.
Don't even compare Jesus to the Governing Body. Jesus wouldn't tolerate what the Governing Body does and certainly wouldn't want to be compared to them.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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KR, what is your cults interpretation of Genesis 1:26? "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
 

CherubRam

New member
Hopefully, you realize the fact that you'll NOT convince ANYONE to trust in your Cult or its belief system.
Cult is from the word "cultivate." People can cultivate truth or lies. Sunday Sabbath along with many other things have been cultivated into Christianity.


cult
kəlt/
noun
noun: cult; plural noun: cults

a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
"the cult of St. Olaf"
a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
"a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
synonyms: sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction
"a religious cult"
a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
"a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"
synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for, idolization of, devotion to, worship of, veneration of
"the cult of eternal youth in Hollywood"
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Cult is from the word "cultivate." People can cultivate truth or lies. Sunday Sabbath along with many other things have been cultivated into Christianity.


cult
kəlt/
noun
noun: cult; plural noun: cults

a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
"the cult of St. Olaf"
a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
"a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
synonyms: sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction
"a religious cult"
a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
"a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"
synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for, idolization of, devotion to, worship of, veneration of
"the cult of eternal youth in Hollywood"

I assure you, I meant it ONLY in the negative connotation. Does that help you any?
 

truthjourney

New member
I have recently come across some reports about spirit channeling at The Watchtower. This is something I had never heard before. There are some people coming forward and telling what they have seen and experienced in connection with spirit channeling taking place at different Watchtower locations. One woman says that she was used as a spirit channeler by the Governing Body when she was a child.

This is one of the videos I have watched. This guy is a former Bethelite and he goes into some detail about his own observations dealing with spirit channeling. I think he was sort of shocked by what he saw and what he was told. I think it's actually in two parts. This is part one.

 
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CherubRam

New member
I mean, how about the topic of the thread... Just a suggestion...

The act of worshiping any being but Yahwah was punishable by death. Most likely the words "pay tribute" or "honor" were replaced with the word "worship." It is an act that is a very big deal in the Jewish community, but yet you see no mention in the New Testament or history about any Jews objecting. No one complained about him saying they are one, because they knew he was speaking about unity. The Messiah to come (yahshua) was never to be a being to be worshipped. This would have been an extremely big deal in the Jewish community if it was truly taking place. And that is one of a number of reasons the Jewish community rejects the New Testament as being the word of God. Yahshua directed us to worship Yahwah only, and stated that he does not accept any glory from mankind.

John 5:41
“I do not accept glorification from human beings,

Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ ”

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’ ”

In the scripture he is quoting, "the Lord" is Yahwah. Yahshua did rebuke the woman, saying he did not have the authority to decide who sits by him.
 

truthjourney

New member
Honestly, I don't think God is capable of breaking through someone's hardened heart. Remember Pharoah? He had all the miracles, signs, and wonders, all the evidence that he was wrong hurled at him, and still he rejected God.

I think only KR herself can break through her own hardened heart, but the only way she can do that is by humbling herself, acknowledging that she and those she follows might be wrong, and humbly seeking after the truth.
I believe that God can break through someone's hardened heart. Ezek. 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
 
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