Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

[KingdomRose]

No Jesus Christ is above all angels in heaven, not Micheal!

Hebrews 1

Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

And it's at the name of Jesus that every knee shall bow, not Micheal, because it's Jesus who has been exalted by the father. It's Jesus's name that is above every name, not Micheal's name. Nowhere does it say in the Bible that Jesus is called Micheal in heaven, Jesus is called Jesus and he is the Christ, the only begotten son of the living God, not Micheal who is an angel of the LORD.

Philippians 2

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Yes, Jesus is above all the angels. Did you read all of what I posted about that? Can you comment on that?

 

[KingdomRose]

I have had Christians say they do not know who Yahwah is, or want anything to do with Him; they only wanted to worship Jesus.

The act of worshiping any being but Yahwah was punishable by death. Most likely the words "pay tribute" or "honor" were replaced with the word "worship." It is an act that is a very big deal in the Jewish community, but yet you see no mention in the New Testament or history about any Jews objecting. No one complained about him saying they are one, because they knew he was speaking about unity. The Messiah to come (yahshua) was never to be a being to be worshipped. This would have been an extremely big deal in the Jewish community if it was truly taking place. And that is one of a number of reasons the Jewish community rejects the New Testament as being the word of God. Yahshua directed us to worship Yahwah only, and stated that he does not accept any glory from mankind.

John 5:41
“I do not accept glorification from human beings,

Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ ”

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’ ”

In the scripture he is quoting, "the Lord" is Yahwah. Yahshua did rebuke the woman, saying he did not have the authority to decide who sits by him.

Excellent.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Yes, Jesus is above all the angels. Did you read all of what I posted about that? Can you comment on that?

ABSOLUTELY NO CREATED BEING can claim what Jesus claimed during His earthly ministry. If they did, they would not be honoring God, but only themselves.

I believe I've posted this here, but I'll do it again, so that you can get it through your thick skull how Jesus is not a created being:

http://kgov.com/deity

 

[KingdomRose]

In reply to post #1879: You have a lot of twisted information. All I'm going to say now is that the brothers that do research on topics for our literature read just about everything that is printed in the news, history books, various Bible versions, scientific publications, and on and on. We are not told to eschew worldly information. I, for one, read everything I can reasonably handle outside of WT publications. We are encouraged to keep current with the news and know what's going on.

 

[KingdomRose]

In reply to post #1880: I have to say that it is extremely interesting that people on these threads seek constantly to hang Jehovah's Witnesses out to dry, above and beyond any attempt to expose other religions concerning their hypocrisy and wickedness. Why particularly JWs? There is much more information in the news every day about, for example, the Roman Catholic Church. But you don't bother to bring that up. Just a lot of heresay about JWs.

 

[KingdomRose]

The Bible states that the children of Israel "came out from Egypt", but that does not make them Egypt.


You seem to have chosen to ignore the clear statement Jesus made.

John 6:38 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.​

You are the one that just did that.


According to scripture, God is the being that raised Jesus up from the dead and gave Jesus glory.

1 Peter 1:21 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.​

You mention three, but nowhere in the Bible does it state that these three are all the same being.
The Bible makes sure that these are identified as separate beings over and over and over, through many repetitions, so it is a wonder that anyone would come to the odd conclusion that the three beings are all the same being.

Excellent points!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

ABSOLUTELY NO CREATED BEING can claim what Jesus claimed during His earthly ministry. If they did, they would not be honoring God, but only themselves.

I believe I've posted this here, but I'll do it again, so that you can get it through your thick skull how Jesus is not a created being:

http://kgov.com/deity

KR and his/her ilk have been brainwashed/indoctrinated into believing falsehoods. These falsehoods will keep them out of everlasting life, unless they place all their faith in Christ and His death and resurrection.

 

[musterion]

In reply to post #1880: I have to say that it is extremely interesting that people on these threads seek constantly to hang Jehovah's Witnesses out to dry, above and beyond any attempt to expose other religions concerning their hypocrisy and wickedness. Why particularly JWs? There is much more information in the news every day about, for example, the Roman Catholic Church. But you don't bother to bring that up. Just a lot of heresay about JWs.

Stop whining with the persecution complex.

1. The thread is about JWs.

2. TOL allows threads on pretty much any topic. JWs are not exempt.

3. TOL has had PLENTY of threads in the past about pretty much every other denomination, church or cult on the planet.

4. The thing is, TOL has, at this time, a larger (or at least louder) contingent of JWs than it does Catholics, Mormons or any other aberrant group. At the moment. That can and will change.

5. You know the saying about the nail that sticks out the farthest...

 

[truthjourney]

In reply to post #1879: You have a lot of twisted information. All I'm going to say now is that the brothers that do research on topics for our literature read just about everything that is printed in the news, history books, various Bible versions, scientific publications, and on and on. We are not told to eschew worldly information. I, for one, read everything I can reasonably handle outside of WT publications. We are encouraged to keep current with the news and know what's going on.

Your Governing Body has a lot of twisted information. Even Ray Franz said so and others at the Watchtower say so.

As for the rest of what you said, your Governing Body says the opposite. But if you want to disagree with the Governing Body then go for it. I say good for you.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The Bible states that the children of Israel "came out from Egypt", but that does not make them Egypt.


You seem to have chosen to ignore the clear statement Jesus made.

John 6:38 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.​

You are the one that just did that.


According to scripture, God is the being that raised Jesus up from the dead and gave Jesus glory.

1 Peter 1:21 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.​

You mention three, but nowhere in the Bible does it state that these three are all the same being.
The Bible makes sure that these are identified as separate beings over and over and over, through many repetitions, so it is a wonder that anyone would come to the odd conclusion that the three beings are all the same being.

There exists; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, yet, these three are ONE. In my humble opinion, our finite human minds cannot wrap THEMSELVES around such a concept, however, God, no doubt, expects us to believe that, TRUTH.

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

 

[musterion]

I posted my Trinity graphic that G.O. choked on. If memory serves, KR pretended she couldn't see it.

 

[truthjourney]

In reply to post #1880: I have to say that it is extremely interesting that people on these threads seek constantly to hang Jehovah's Witnesses out to dry, above and beyond any attempt to expose other religions concerning their hypocrisy and wickedness. Why particularly JWs? There is much more information in the news every day about, for example, the Roman Catholic Church. But you don't bother to bring that up. Just a lot of heresay about JWs.

I guess you missed it then. I mentioned the Catholic Church, Scientologists and the Mormons.

 

[KingdomRose]

It's saying the word was "deity", not "divine."

No, the meaning is "divine." Moffatt's Translation renders the verse: "...the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine." That is the meaning of "god" in that verse. Someone who was a powerful, influential, important Person, having emanated from heaven.

 

[KingdomRose]

They also claim there is no hell fire , is it true?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, that is true. That doctrine can be readily exposed as erroneous if you would be interested in seeing that information.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

No, the meaning is "divine." Moffatt's Translation renders the verse: "...the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine." That is the meaning of "god" in that verse. Someone who was a powerful, influential, important Person, having emanated from heaven.

Hopefully, you realize the fact that you'll NOT convince ANYONE to trust in your Cult or its belief system.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yes, that is true. That doctrine can be readily exposed as erroneous if you would be interested in seeing that information.

However, you'll only portray that particular falsehood, from your Cults standpoint.

 

[KingdomRose]

No, if the writer was referring to the same Person, (as he does in 1:1) then only one subject would have the definite article, if he was referring to two different Persons, then there would be an article before both subjects.

"The Father" and "The Husband" in my first sentence are two different people. This is an established rule in grammar in, afaik, every single language on earth, including KOINE Greek. When two subjects (talking about sentence structure here) both have an article in front of them, then they are considered two different subjects, and not the same subject referred to twice.

In my second sentence ("The father and husband"), there is only one person being referred to. In John 1:1 (direct Greek translation), "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God (subject), and God (subject) was the Word."

"The father (subject) and the husband (another subject) went to the store."

"The father (subject) and husband (same subject) went to the store."

It's called the Granville Sharp rule. Look it up.

Oh wait, the Governing Body doesn't allow that, does it?

Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about. It has been repeatedly said that there are no indefinite articles in Greek, so if a noun has no article that means it is NOT the same as the noun that HAS the definite article.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It's easier for people to believe there's no Hell, (Hades) no Lake of Fire, and no Judgement, however, if we're to believe the Bible, we must accept all of its claims.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about. It has been repeatedly said that there are no indefinite articles in Greek, so if a noun has no article that means it is NOT the same as the noun that HAS the definite article.

One of your problems is, you and your cult are trusting more in your personal interpretations of the Greek language, than you're trusting in what the Bible is truly saying. By the way, I assume you're ignoring me or have Old GM on ignore, however, my posts , are for others to peruse, as well.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about.

This coming from someone who's religion's founder didn't even know the Greek alphabet, much less how Greek sentence structure worked.

It has been repeatedly said that there are no indefinite articles in Greek, so if a noun has no article that means it is NOT the same as the noun that HAS the definite article.

I AGREE, but that doesn't mean you get to ignore the Granville sharp rule, which states:

"“When the copulative καὶ connects two nouns of the same case, [viz. nouns (either substantive or adjective, or participles) of personal description, respecting office, dignity, affinity, or connexion, and attributes, properties, or qualities, good or ill], if the article ὁ, or any of its cases, precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle.” (Remarks on the Uses of the Definitive Article, 3)