Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

[marhig]

Anyway I'm off to bed, it's late here. Night.

 

[musterion]

WHO is doing all of this filthy, foul-mouthed talk? I haven't seen any lately, have you?

Remember how Meshak came her all preoccupied with the sex perversions of Trinitarians? Must be something special to the Watchtower's drones.

 

[musterion]

Notice how Marhig and KR have ignored the graphics. They can't deal with them.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I don't need to see the heart of others when they wear it on their sleeve. Anyone who speaks with a filthy tongue doesn't speak of the Spirit.

Jesus said, it's not what goes into a man that defiles him, it's what comes out of a man that defiles him.

Are you making accusations or hearing 'filthy words and sentences within the confines of your imaginative mind?'

 

[popsthebuilder]

Nope. God dwells with those who have been made (past tense) righteous, not those who are trying to make themselves righteous.

If the people whom Marhig is describing are truly Christians, then God Christ's righteousness imparted to them, regardless of what they have done.



"Being saved?" You clearly didn't comprehend what I said.

They ARE ALREADY saved, NOTHING they do or can do will separate them from spending the rest of eternity with God.

Their salvation is a done deal. Their sins (all of them, past, present, and future sins) are covered by Christ's blood, past tense, not present tense, not future tense.

Yes, it saddens God that they do those things, and it certainly doesn't bring glory to Him, but that does not and cannot change the fact that, if they are indeed Christians, whenever God looks at them, He doesn't see their sin, He sees the righteousness of His Son, Jesus Christ.



Nope.



*Son of God



And rightly so. By saying Christ is just the son of God, and not God Himself come in the flesh, by denying Christ's deity, you devalue His gift, rendering it unable to save even one person.

Marhig, Is God not the most valuable commodity? Is not God infinitely worth more than any created being? And are the wages of sin death (ie, separation)? If so, how can anyone who sins pay their ransom? Is not one sin enough to condemn someone to eternal separation from God? How then could even one perfect created being pay for even one sin, let alone for every sin ever committed?

Let's say that you never sinned, and will never sin, how could you, a created being, die for every sin ever committed, being committed, and ever will be committed, when your perfect, sinless life would only be enough to pay for one sin? You would need something that is infinitely greater than one created being to pay for all of every created beings' sins. ONLY GOD HIMSELF could pay that price.

And He did, God the Son came as a Man, and paid the price for sin, so that no man would have to pay for his own sin.

This is why a rejection of the deity of Christ means that one is not saved, because if Christ is not God, then the person who rejects the above cannot be saved, because the debt could not have been paid.

Denying Christ's deity is a denial of salvation itself.

That's why it's a salvation issue.

That's why JWs are not saved, because they reject salvation by denying Christ's God-ship.



Scripture says that No man can ransom his life for another, but that only God can save.

Spoiler

None of them can by any means redeem his brother, Nor give to God a ransom for him—For the redemption of their souls is costly, And it shall cease forever—That he should continue to live eternally, And not see the Pit. . . . But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah - Psalm 49:7-9,15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm49:7-9,15&version=NKJV

I'm asking if they were Christians, or were they unbelievers?

With regards to your words spoken towards me;

We agree that it has nothing to do with past sin or level there of, but with "being made righteous".

So does that which is Holy (righteous)dwell within that with is outwardly vile? Whose works are detestable?

What do you think?

What does Jesus and the whole book tell us imcluding St. Paul?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[popsthebuilder]

Marhig seems to be zealously judgemental about others. She must understand that she doesn't have the ability to see into the hearts and minds of others.

Scripture tells us how to know.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

What? So they can talk in a vulgar foul way, be sexually immoral and that's ok before God? Paul has said in the verses that you have quoted that people who do this are evil. How are they saved if they are evil? And Paul even said that we are to come away from them? How can you say that people who act like this are right before God? No it's not right before God to speak and act in a sexually immoral way. And those who are being saved don't act in that way.

I can't believe that you are condoning behaviour like that!

You say that God doesn't see their sins, but Paul says that we will all be judged on what we do, good and bad!

Btw, can you show me the verse that you are speaking about where it says the God come in flesh? Thanks

Again, where are you reading/hearing these 'filthy words and sentences?' I'm beginning to be concerned about you?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Scripture tells us how to know.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Okay, give us some Scripture?

 

[JudgeRightly]

I'm still waiting on an answer to my question about 1 Corinthians 5... Were they believers or unbelievers?

What? So they can talk in a vulgar foul way, be sexually immoral and that's ok before God?

This is how I know I'm teaching the right thing.

There's a litmus test that Paul gives (not outright, but by which one can determine if they're teaching what he's saying (which in turn comes from God)).

Spoiler

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.For he who has died has been freed from sin.Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. - Romans 6:1-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans6:1-19&version=NKJV[/QUOTE]

To answer your question...

NO OF COURSE NOT!

And I've answered that at least twice now.

Paul has said in the verses that you have quoted that people who do this are evil. How are they saved if they are evil? And Paul even said that we are to come away from them? How can you say that people who act like this are right before God? No it's not right before God to speak and act in a sexually immoral way. And those who are being saved don't act in that way.

So are you saying that the people Paul is talking about are NOT believers? Not Christians?

I can't believe that you are condoning behaviour like that!

See, that's the thing... I'M NOT! Though the above passage is why you might think that I am.

You say that God doesn't see their sins, but Paul says that we will all be judged on what we do, good and bad!

He says that believers' works will be judged, that the hay and stubble will be burned up (such as vulgarities and things that didn't make a difference), but that works that had a lasting effect, such as witnessing to nonbelievers, would come through like jewels and precious metals.

But that's only for believers, which JWs are NOT, because they believe in a false Christ who cannot ransom anyone.

Btw, can you show me the verse that you are speaking about where it says the God come in flesh? Thanks

Because God tells us that by two or three witnesses a matter is established, here are four passages that say that God came in the flesh:

John 1:1, 14
1 Timothy 3:16
Titus 2:13-14
1 John 2:2

 

[drbrumley]

Are you kidding me? So you think that people who have filthy minds are saved

Nope! Try again!

because they are Christians who believe in the trinity?

Some Christians from time to time, most of the time they don't have filthy minds, make an error. Then they "turn from" and get it right with Christ. But these are "works" that will be burned (i.e. getting taken to the woodshed because God chastises us because he loves us)and not "works" that will damn you. That judgement has already happened when one accepts Jesus' payment of the cross. A christian is one who has settled "out of court."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Nope! Try again!



Some Christians from time to time, most of the time they don't have filthy minds, make an error. Then they "turn from" and get it right with Christ. But these are "works" that will be burned (i.e. getting taken to the woodshed because God chastises us because he loves us)and not "works" that will damn you. That judgement has already happened when one accepts Jesus' payment of the cross. A christian is one who has settled "out of court."

Well put.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Okay, give us some Scripture?

Ephesians 5: 2. And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 3. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4. Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 10. Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16. Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 18. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19. Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20. Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21. Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

John 15: 1. I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Luke 20: 16. He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid. 17. And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? 18. Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

John 4: 34. Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. 35. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest. 36. And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. 37. And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth. 38. I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.

Mark 11: 12. And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: 13. And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. 14. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. 15. And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; 17. And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves. 20. And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. 22. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 25. And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luke 3: 2. Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3. And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; 5. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6. And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. 8. Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 9. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 11. He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. 13. And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. 14. And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

Luke 4: 1. And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2. Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered. 4. And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. 8. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 12. And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. 18. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 21. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 26. But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. 27. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

James 3: 2. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. 3. Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body. 4. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. 5. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! 6. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 8. But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? 12. Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. 13. Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. 17. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.


( It's probably getting pretty lengthy so I'll stop for now. The focus is works/ fruit here; and what sorts of things bare which types of fruit.)


Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[popsthebuilder]

I'm still waiting on an answer to my question about 1 Corinthians 5... Were they believers or unbelievers?



This is how I know I'm teaching the right thing.

There's a litmus test that Paul gives (not outright, but by which one can determine if they're teaching what he's saying (which in turn comes from God)).

Spoiler

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.For he who has died has been freed from sin.Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. - Romans 6:1-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans6:1-19&version=NKJV

Spoiler

To answer your question...

NO OF COURSE NOT!

And I've answered that at least twice now.



So are you saying that the people Paul is talking about are NOT believers? Not Christians?



See, that's the thing... I'M NOT! Though the above passage is why you might think that I am.



He says that believers' works will be judged, that the hay and stubble will be burned up (such as vulgarities and things that didn't make a difference), but that works that had a lasting effect, such as witnessing to nonbelievers, would come through like jewels and precious metals.

But that's only for believers, which JWs are NOT, because they believe in a false Christ who cannot ransom anyone.



Because God tells us that by two or three witnesses a matter is established, here are four passages that say that God came in the flesh:

John 1:1, 14
1 Timothy 3:16
Titus 2:13-14
1 John 2:2[/QUOTE]Woe......no sir please.....the wheat and tares are clearly individual people, and not a division of your acts or works and the utter lack of judgement on the negative or sour.

Our sin before knowing GOD/ Christ is wholly cleansed. Knowing sin after the fact is not in my opinion. I would gladly go over the scripture if you would care to.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Ephesians 5: 2. And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 3. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4. Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 10. Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16. Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 18. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19. Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20. Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21. Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

John 15: 1. I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Luke 20: 16. He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid. 17. And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? 18. Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

John 4: 34. Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. 35. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest. 36. And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. 37. And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth. 38. I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.

Mark 11: 12. And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: 13. And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. 14. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. 15. And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; 17. And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves. 20. And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. 22. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 25. And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luke 3: 2. Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3. And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; 5. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6. And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. 8. Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 9. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 11. He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. 13. And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. 14. And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

Luke 4: 1. And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2. Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered. 4. And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. 8. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 12. And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. 18. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 21. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 26. But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. 27. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

James 3: 2. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. 3. Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body. 4. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. 5. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! 6. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 8. But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? 12. Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. 13. Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. 17. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.


( It's probably getting pretty lengthy so I'll stop for now. The focus is works/ fruit here; and what sorts of things bare which types of fruit.)


Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

The Scriptures you used, except for Ephesians were pertaining to the lost sheep of the House of Israel and not the Body of Christ. Your Ephesians reference is speaking of those who are NOT saved and are not part of the Body of Christ. Please try again?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Nope! Try again!



Some Christians from time to time, most of the time they don't have filthy minds, make an error. Then they "turn from" and get it right with Christ. But these are "works" that will be burned (i.e. getting taken to the woodshed because God chastises us because he loves us)and not "works" that will damn you. That judgement has already happened when one accepts Jesus' payment of the cross. A christian is one who has settled "out of court."

If you evil outweighs your good upon judgement, when you have no excuse but misunderstandings due to the provocative words and soothing preconceptions of man; well....then I hope the judgement falls on the one who instilled such a doctrine. You will be called to task for all you do after having confessed Christ as your Savior in my opinion.

peace

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[popsthebuilder]

The Scriptures you used, except for Ephesians were pertaining to the lost sheep of the House of Israel and not the Body of Christ. Your Ephesians reference is speaking of those who are NOT saved and are not part of the Body of Christ. Please try again?

the holy temple is what Christ dwells in.

There is no division between Israel and GOD'S flock.

That isn't to say that there never was any division, but that there is no longer a dividing wall; all are sinners.



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[drbrumley]

If you evil outweighs your good upon judgement,

Then you were never saved to begin with.

in my opinion.

Noted

 

[popsthebuilder]

Then you were never saved to begin with.



Noted

I guess you wouldn't care to go over the scripture you think supports this view. It's an assumption

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[JudgeRightly]

Woe......no sir please.....the wheat and tares are clearly individual people, and not a division of your acts or works and the utter lack of judgement on the negative or sour.

Our sin before knowing GOD/ Christ is wholly cleansed. Knowing sin after the fact is not in my opinion. I would gladly go over the scripture if you would care to.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Um, nooo, I'm pretty sure it says "each one's work"... Not the individual himself.

Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. - 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians3:12-15&version=NKJV

 

[drbrumley]

I guess you wouldn't care to go over the scripture you think supports this view.

10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God" (1 John 5:10, 13).

"believe" is always present tense....

And "believe" and "commit" are the same word.

It's an assumption

Now that's an assumption!