Christian Ministers to Use 'Magic Mushrooms' for 'Religious Experience' for A Study

glorydaz

Well-known member
Please understand that I specifically said I don't use drugs. Also, you are the mod of this thread and said that faith plus abstinence from drugs = salvation. You condemned all drug users to hell with your private interpretation of grace that renders Grace meaningless.

You have crossed the line here. Let [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION] ban me from this thread for agreeing with your OP point while simultaneously standing up for the sufficient work of the cross to all man kind.

Faith + Abstinence from drug use?

It's on thread topic and you brought it up.

Liar, please leave my thread, ive said no such lie.

This was in response to my citing Christian friends that struggle with drugs. And you are not a "we".

Then it looks to me that you are make a false accusation....saying Angel believes people must repent of their sins before they are saved. I've never seen her say any such thing. She was showing how drug use and sorcery can go hand in hand.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Angel quoted Rev and Lon confirmed that he believes a struggling drug user that continues to struggle isn't God's.

I don't lie and Honestly... Paul's Thorn is clearly sin. I do what I do not want ties in.

I'm out of this. This is getting more and more GT.

Sure, run chicken. Just when I come in to set you straight. :nono:

No, the thorn was not a sin. He was given a thorn so that he wouldn't end up becoming vain. It's hard to think you're so hot when you're getting beat to a pulp and thrown in prison and near drowned.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I'm a troll for standing up for my Christian friends that struggle with drugs while agreeing with your OP point?

Are your friends actually struggling with drugs or just using them recreationally. Sparking up, as you put it, doesn't make a struggle. However, the point isn't whether they are saved or not....for who can say but the Lord? Thus far in this thread, I've seen none being doomed to hell for drug use.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I'm calm and happy. I'm sorry you feel better than others and want to condemn sinners that are saved by faith through grace.

You are legitimately being hostile and condemning towards me. I don't really care... but I won't tolerate pride and genuine misuse of scripture.

Oh Lord. :doh:
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
This is an easy out for A4T... who I had agreed with in OP and simply cited that grace saves all and judgment of others flesh isn't my style. A4T zeroed in on the verbiage about my friends.

No.

One sinner saved is as saved as another. The fruit inspection ain't ok.

One pig claiming to be cleaner than another pig is simply rediculous. I'm sincerely aware that you and A4T embrace Augustine original sin.

This is why I'm not a fan.

We are either saved by obedience or faith. You're double talking and Augustine original sin is the culprit.

Obedience or faith?

God disciplines His children... period.

We all fall short and He died while we were yet sinners. A4T is hiding her self righteousness... but it's there and anyone who reads the Revelation quote of hers and catches her drift that she is saying drug use equals damnation... well... there it is.

[MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION] ... read the entire conversation from beginning to end... if you still side with A4T... all is well. But...

I know Judgment, Self Righteousness and Works Based teaching when I read it. I'm not budging.

I agreed with the OP premise... and A4T zeroed in on my Christ imparted Compassion for my friends that are struggling with drugs.

Pish Posh! This is a bunch of BULL Hoof!

Obedience or Faith?

Did He come for the "righteous"?

Was it while we were yet sinners?

Oh puh-leeeeeeeeeze

This has been "Eye opening".

God refused to take Paul's thorn. He used it to keep pride away from him.

You disappoint me. I'm kind of surprised at the Self Righteousness here that originally wasn't portrayed as such.

He came for sinners. I'll take my licks here. I'm no more saved then another. It is you who have lied here. So be it.

I initially agreed with you and I stood up for Jesus being the only way on this thread too.

I'm legitimately disgusted!

You owe both Angel and Lon an apology. I cannot believe you've acted the fool this way. You are dead wrong. Angel didn't say what you claim and neither did Lon. This has NOTHING to do with original sin....it does have a lot to do with PRIDE. AND it's YOURS that needs to be taken down a few notches.

Just bite the bullet and do what you know is right.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
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An unregenerate cannot regenerate,
What's the difference between 'unregenerate' and 'sinner'?


nor can clean water come from a dirty spring,
Are 'spring' and 'water' the same thing?
If not, what's the fundamental difference?


I'm asking for clarification on these words because the way I read them, the answer would be yes to both questions.

Our flesh bodies are corruptible, but they regenerate in several ways. You can help that process along by taking medicines, or eating certain foods, or by rest or exercise (whichever is most beneficial).
And our town's water system cleans dirty water daily.​


Thanks for any clarification you can provide, Lon.
 

Lon

Well-known member
You should have stopped at harmful and unproductive... the follow up where you say that some are not His if they continue to struggle with drugs... is telling.
:nono: As with A4T, it isn't what I said either. I don't believe in loss of salvation, EE :nono: Neither does A4T. You seem to be emoting more than listening today, or perhaps two or all three of us aren't as clear as was intended. I'll try.

Why did God refuse to take Paul's Thorn? Grace isn't promotion or license to sin... it is utter, complete... undeserved merited favor.
A thorn isn't a sin. Galatians 6:11, likely eyesight. God wants us healthy but some humility is good for us.

UNDESERVED

A Calvinist I'm not and never will be.
A4T isn't a Calvinist :confused: My Scripture understanding of this is certainly Calvinist. Careful not to throw all Calvinism out lest you stop trusting in the Salvation of our Lord and Savior altogether. Theology isn't like Politics, we shouldn't be tossing everyone out of the church. I certainly don't do this with MAD or Arminians. We share a lot of truths. I try to err on the side of Grace wherever I can.

I believe His Grace is much more sufficient than you have said here. I refuse to limit His saving power and I damn sure believe John 6:63 and Ephesians 2:8f.
So do I, I think you misread me, and are reading salvation loss where absolutely none exists in my posts. All I said is: If they are His trusting Him --> discipline and deliverance, one way or the other. He is gracious and pulling for us. If they don't belong to the Lord Jesus Christ, then that is their need and calling upon the Lord is the answer. I've said nothing else, simply that I think there are two groups that use drugs, those who are saved and struggling, and those who need Salvation.

We have found a point of disagreement in your fruit inspection agreement. Sin is sin and forgiven is forgiven...

PERIOD!!!
:nono: Not at all, we haven't. Please reread it all, I was very careful and am very careful talking about sin and a believer's life. You will never hear me say that 'unsaved' is the mark whereby we know if one is saved. I only said that it is true of some sinners, remember? IOW, if you see someone in a sin, the Christian, you can encourage and pray for and cry for. The nonChristian, he/she first needs their sins forgiven then you are back to encouraging them in their walk and praying for them. In a nutshell, we either evangelize the lost, or encourage a brother or sister. I do apologize for not making this incredibly clear, but it was my endeavor to do so in trying to put what you were saying and Ang was saying, together. I highly suspect, this is what she was saying as well. I'd have to ask further about any discrepancy. Whatever stance I am, I don't think it Calvinist specific that another cannot be blessed. :idunno: Still trying to serve, -Lon
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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:nono: As with A4T, it isn't what I said either. I don't believe in loss of salvation, EE :nono: Neither does A4T. You seem to be emoting more than listening today, or perhaps two or all three of us aren't as clear as was intended. I'll try.

A thorn isn't a sin. Galatians 6:11, likely eyesight. God wants us healthy but some humility is good for us.

A4T isn't a Calvinist :confused: My Scripture understanding of this is certainly Calvinist. Careful not to throw all Calvinism out lest you stop trusting in the Salvation of our Lord and Savior altogether. Theology isn't like Politics, we shouldn't be tossing everyone out of the church. I certainly don't do this with MAD or Arminians. We share a lot of truths. I try to err on the side of Grace wherever I can.

So do you, you missed the point, I think and are reading salvation loss where absolutely none exists in my posts. All I said is: If they are His trusting Him --> discipline and deliverance, one way or the other. He is gracious and pulling for us. If they don't belong to us, then that is their need and calling upon the Lord is the answer. I've said nothing else.

:nono: Not at all, we haven't. Please reread it all, I was very careful and am very careful talking about sin and a believer's life. You will never hear me say that 'unsaved' is the mark whereby we know if one is saved. I only said that it is true of some sinners, remember? IOW, if you see someone in a sin, the Christian, you can encourage and pray for and cry for. The nonChristian, he/she first needs their sins forgiven then you are back to encouraging them in their walk and praying for them. In a nutshell, we either evangelize the lost, or encourage a brother or sister. I do apologize for not making this incredibly clear, but it was my endeavor to do so in trying to put what you were saying and Ang was saying, together. I highly suspect, this is what she was saying as well. I'd have to ask further about any discrepancy. Whatever stance I am, I don't think it Calvinist specific that another cannot be blessed. :idunno: Still trying to serve, -Lon

You said... and it's quoted... so no goes backs... they aren't His. Discipline doesn't equal perfection or a better flesh. You buffered with discipline... but you said what you said.

I'm Okay getting counted as garbage for what I've said. A4T will change their tune... but that Revelation quote and her use of it is clear. I'll quote what started all this next.

That Augustine Salvation By Obedience... Original Sin garbage is TRASH and She am not a ranting fool.

Period. Even if I am a ranting fool... my foolishness is rooted in grace.

My friends are repentant and struggling. A4T said otherwise. So... PISHETY POSH!
 

Lon

Well-known member
What's the difference between 'unregenerate' and 'sinner'?
No difference in God's eyes. If you are regenerate, your sins are seen through His blood, not there. Washed away. Rather, a Christian struggling is a struggling Christian. God is working on that person to conform Him to His image, Romans 8:29 Ephesians 2:10 now, as a way of getting him/her ready, then, in perfection when we see Him face to face. 1 John 3:2


Are 'spring' and 'water' the same thing?
If not, what's the fundamental difference?
"Spring" is the source of water. When the Lord Jesus Christ talked with the Samaritan, He told her she'd ask Him for Living water.
Spiritually, by metaphor, it can be both, but I'm unsure specifically which passage you have in mind. :think:


I'm asking for clarification on these words because the way I read them, the answer would be yes to both questions.
Our flesh bodies are corruptible, but they regenerate in several ways. You can help that process along by taking medicines, or eating certain foods, or by rest or exercise (whichever is most beneficial).
And our town's water system cleans dirty water daily.​


Thanks for any clarification you can provide, Lon.
When we've talked before, I think we are always pretty close. What is done in the flesh, is of no profit and counts for nothing. Rather, what we do as new creations brings others into His new life, and so He uses us for this and we become vessels for His use and glory, even a drug addict, and even in some cases, the unsaved as well (couple of stories come to mind). John W, by example was talking about his cigarettes he gave up and struggled with for a long time. There was no point in his life he 'stopped' being a Christian. We can't stop being saved any more than we can stop breathing. That is why whoever is in Christ is a new creature. EE's saved friends are just needing help and/or discipline from him, their families, and the Lord. God helps us in our weakness. When we are weak, He is strong, so in a sense, I am OSAS but I never want to tell a person "You are saved" if they are struggling with whether they are or not. Rather, I think we need to be ready to answer the hope we have to anyone who asks us. I'm never trying to say 'by their fruit we'll know them' as to becoming an arbitrator of who is and isn't saved. I simply believe we are New Creations at the point He makes us New Creations in Christ Jesus. Romans 10:13 In Him and thank you for asking -Lon
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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I'll get right to it... I have friends that have done drugs and I have friends that still spark up. But... and I emphasize BUT... Recreational Pharmaceuticals have never... ever... done a good thing for many people. Sure... there are the exceptions, and there are those that self medicate on a psychotropic scale, instead of blowing their brains out... but if a person needs to alter their chemical state to get close to God... they are doing something wrong.

The Gospel is sufficient for me. ... Understatement...

Pan Theism and Pan-an-theism are two separate matters. One binds man to being... literally ONE with God like Jesus "IS". The other binds to a study of what the Source of life within ALL living things "Is".

Could you provide one biblical text where a prophet was tripping eggs to "get closer to God"?

If you can't... your "commentary" most certainly... does not hold.

There are drug addicts that are saved and will die in the grips of addiction... but if you ask these individuals if the addiction is "helping" their relationship with God... they will most assuredly attest that it only shows them how badly they need Him.

Addiction is miserable and drugs are a chemical high that fades and requires a recharge...

That Good Good Jesus WATER quenches and provides the eternal well that springs up from within... and no... I like me some good drinks now and again... but the fire water isn't the WATER...

Grace through Faith and the realization that God embraces us with His very own Humble Heart is more than enough to propel anyone into a never ending "Spiritual TRIP".

If the pastors wanted an excuse to experiment with drugs... they should have simply taken a break from the ministry and sewed those oats.

The entire idea is corrupt and observably lame.

I respect that some people need to sincerely detach themselves from reality... but the idea of a drug inspired sermon isn't a good idea!

A drug inspired novel? Yup... those are always pretty good... but mixing faith and Chemistry is always a quick trip down a prim-rose path that leads to ... Ozzy. I'm not knocking the guy... I'm just sayen.

And they did not repent of their sorcery/drug use...

OIC... out of everything I wrote... that agrees with your stance... you choose to pick up stones and cast them at the struggling drug addict. They just sin differently than me. I could cloak and claim sinlessness by Jesus Work... which I do... but I know my place and how imputed saint hood isn't a "washing" of the filthy flesh...

Hint... read Peter...



So... now... Faith + Not being a drug user = Salvation...

Do tell GT... Do tell.

You never know a person's heart... but your words are showing that your think you do. Bad Idea. Do you use caffeine? Eat Pork? Are you Sin Free now?

Judge not lest Ye be judged hangs over your head now. Thanks for "re-" interpreting grace through faith for everyone.

Faith * What Angel? Is His Grace sufficient? I don't use drugs, but I have friends that Love God and do. Spoiler alert... they hurt deep down and want to stop... but that thorn is theirs to bear and not mine to judge.

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.​

Is there a lack of understanding of what 613 points of law means when someone uses "Truth" in their name?

I quoted revelation,

Revelation 9:21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries(/drug use) nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.

The word translated as sorcery there, is the greek word that drugs and pharmacy comes from directly.

your argument is with God, not me, He said it. Also there is a reason that America consumes more drugs than any other country in the world.

Is God so impotent to you, that He will not help stop those who wish to stop? Does He put it into their mouth/veins?

I have compassion for those trapped in sin, but i offer up the solution (Him, on your knees) instead the walk into hell (im ok youre ok and how dare anyone call you on sin and your need for a savior)

My God is strong enough, is yours? Bless me some more for speaking the truth.

So... out of everything I said... my friends didn't repent? So repent means STOP being a carnal Screw up? Angel is on that physical judge game!

And not repent in Angel's terms is clearly connected to Revelation as Angel quoted it very clearly.

"My God" says Angel... after I had went on about one Jesus that saves.

Angel is on that I'm a good person jive. I've known this. Angel 100% believes in eternal Hell fire in a non open minded way. I know! I commented on both sides.

So wether it is admitted by Angel or not... They indeed are mum about the struggling sinner.

[MENTION=1746]freelight[/MENTION] is my friend and I apposed his perspective. It actually hurts to post opposing to friends... for me... but I have the eggs to call a spade a spade and self righteousness... self righteousness... or a bad drug study a bad drug study.

I have NO pride and believe HIS GRACE is sufficient.

I hope Angel answers for themself... because kicking me off a thread and crying that I'm lying about what's written in black and white is kind of poor taste.

[MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION] ... all is well. You are entitled to your perspective.

[MENTION=3698]Tambora[/MENTION] ... I know you don't take sides and I know Angel is a wonderful witness... but thank you for answering the questions you answered with scriptural integrity.


I'm watching to see if Angel still calls my struggling friends unrepentant... What she wrote and quoted is clear.

This is a Circus Joke!

No fake apologies from me.. [MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION] and Angel... I says what I mean and didn't st... st... stutter.

So... that's that!

# PERIOD!!!

Oh... and He's my God too Angel 4 God's Truth... Unless you're on that Personal Jesus Gig... I would hope you think twice before making inference and hiding behind misleading insinuation about what you actual said!

This is straight :nono:
 

Lon

Well-known member
You said... and it's quoted... so no goes backs... they aren't His. Discipline doesn't equal perfection or a better flesh. You buffered with discipline... but you said what you said.
No I didn't reread me again. All I said is that some people on drugs aren't saved and some people are. In that, I said if they were His, God is going to deliver them one way or the other. How is that not good news? :idunno: Please, please, reread me. I never said your friends weren't saved. I simply said this about anyone caught in drugs and pertaining to the thread also. Those pastors are either 1) Not saved, or 2) going in for correction, discipline, and/or deliverance. Very briefly, these are my only points I've said in thread.
 

patrick jane

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Banned
No difference in God's eyes. If you are regenerate, your sins are seen through His blood, not there. Washed away. Rather, a Christian struggling is a struggling Christian. God is working on that person to conform Him to His image, Romans 8:29 Ephesians 2:10 now, as a way of getting him/her ready, then, in perfection when we see Him face to face. 1 John 3:2



"Spring" is the source of water. When the Lord Jesus Christ talked with the Samaritan, He told her she'd ask Him for Living water.
Spiritually, by metaphor, it can be both, but I'm unsure specifically which passage you have in mind. :think:



When we've talked before, I think we are always pretty close. What is done in the flesh, is of no profit and counts for nothing. Rather, what we do as new creations brings others into His new life, and so He uses us for this and we become vessels for His use and glory, even a drug addict, and even in some cases, the unsaved as well (couple of stories come to mind). John W, by example was talking about his cigarettes he gave up and struggled with for a long time. There was no point in his life he 'stopped' being a Christian. We can't stop being saved any more than we can stop breathing. That is why whoever is in Christ is a new creature. EE's saved friends are just needing help and/or discipline from him, their families, and the Lord. God helps us in our weakness. When we are weak, He is strong, so in a sense, I am OSAS but I never want to tell a person "You are saved" if they are struggling with whether they are or not. Rather, I think we need to be ready to answer the hope we have to anyone who asks us. I'm never trying to say 'by their fruit we'll know them' as to becoming an arbitrator of who is and isn't saved. I simply believe we are New Creations at the point He makes us New Creations in Christ Jesus. Romans 10:13 In Him and thank you for asking -Lon
You don't want to tell somebody that they are saved when they're struggling with not knowing?
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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No difference in God's eyes. If you are regenerate, your sins are seen through His blood, not there. Washed away. Rather, a Christian struggling is a struggling Christian. God is working on that person to conform Him to His image, Romans 8:29 Ephesians 2:10 now, as a way of getting him/her ready, then, in perfection when we see Him face to face. 1 John 3:2



"Spring" is the source of water. When the Lord Jesus Christ talked with the Samaritan, He told her she'd ask Him for Living water.
Spiritually, by metaphor, it can be both, but I'm unsure specifically which passage you have in mind. :think:



When we've talked before, I think we are always pretty close. What is done in the flesh, is of no profit and counts for nothing. Rather, what we do as new creations brings others into His new life, and so He uses us for this and we become vessels for His use and glory, even a drug addict, and even in some cases, the unsaved as well (couple of stories come to mind). John W, by example was talking about his cigarettes he gave up and struggled with for a long time. There was no point in his life he 'stopped' being a Christian. We can't stop being saved any more than we can stop breathing. That is why whoever is in Christ is a new creature. EE's saved friends are just needing help and/or discipline from him, their families, and the Lord. God helps us in our weakness. When we are weak, He is strong, so in a sense, I am OSAS but I never want to tell a person "You are saved" if they are struggling with whether they are or not. Rather, I think we need to be ready to answer the hope we have to anyone who asks us. I'm never trying to say 'by their fruit we'll know them' as to becoming an arbitrator of who is and isn't saved. I simply believe we are New Creations at the point He makes us New Creations in Christ Jesus. Romans 10:13 In Him and thank you for asking -Lon

Well... Angel said Unrepentant... so... that's not...

Ps... I loath the Calvy use of regenerate as it binds to Hyper Calvy election... so... there's that too...

But yeah... Angel ain't saying what you are saying and for all the no she's not...

I'm waiving the BS Flag!
 
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