Christian Ministers to Use 'Magic Mushrooms' for 'Religious Experience' for A Study

[Lon]

You don't want to tell somebody that they are saved when they're struggling with not knowing?

For me, I think you want to help them understand the gospel. When they do, they will know themselves they are saved. I try to never come between a person and their Savior, but rather make sure they come together over what He has said. Romans 10:13. Unless I've personally led to them to the Lord, I don't know if they called upon Him and if they are doubting, I think it important to ask good questions as well as share important verses and promises.

 

[patrick jane]

So... out of everything I said... my friends didn't repent? So repent means STOP being a carnal Screw up? Angel is on that physical judge game!

And not repent in Angel's terms is clearly connected to Revelation as Angel quoted it very clearly.

"My God" says Angel... after I had went on about one Jesus that saves.

Angel is on that I'm a good person jive. I've known this. Angel 100% believes in eternal Hell fire in a non open minded way. I know! I commented on both sides.

So wether it is admitted by Angel or not... They indeed are mum about the struggling sinner.

@freelight is my friend and I apposed his perspective. It actually hurts to post opposing to friends... for me... but I have the eggs to call a spade a spade and self righteousness... self righteousness... or a bad drug study a bad drug study.

I have NO pride and believe HIS GRACE is sufficient.

I hope Angel answers for themself... because kicking me off a thread and crying that I'm lying about what's written in black and white is kind of poor taste.

@glorydaz ... all is well. You are entitled to your perspective.

@Tambora ... I know you don't take sides and I know Angel is a wonderful witness... but thank you for answering the questions you answered with scriptural integrity.

I'm watching to see if Angel still calls my struggling friends unrepentant... What she wrote and quoted is clear.

This is a Circus Joke!

No fake apologies from me.. @glorydaz and Angel... I says what I mean and didn't st... st... stutter.

So... that's that!

# PERIOD!!!

Oh... and He's my God too Angel 4 God's Truth... Unless you're on that Personal Jesus Gig... I would hope you think twice before making inference and hiding behind misleading insinuation about what you actual said!

This is straight :nono:

Take your pills

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

For me, I think you want to help them understand the gospel. When they do, they will know themselves they are saved. I try to never come between a person and their Savior, but rather make sure they come together over what He has said. Romans 10:13. Unless I've personally led to them to the Lord, I don't know if they called upon Him and if they are doubting, I think it important to ask good questions as well as share important verses and promises.

You're off the hook with that... but Angel is still exactly where I literarily intended her to be.

Good thread until my boys... (aka... boys = valuable Friends in Christ that have drug issues).. got called "unrepentant" by her.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Take your pills

I would... but Angel would route me on the 666 train... straight to Hell... if I did.

Are prescribed "drugs" sorcery too? :idunno:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

No I didn't reread me again. All I said is that some people on drugs aren't saved and some people are. In that, I said if they were His, God is going to deliver them one way or the other. How is that not good news? :idunno: Please, please, reread me. I never said your friends weren't saved. I simply said this about anyone caught in drugs and pertaining to the thread also. Those pastors are either 1) Not saved, or 2) going in for correction, discipline, and/or deliverance. Very briefly, these are my only points I've said in thread.

Oh... and everyone... including you and even the OP author is cool in my book... no worries.

All Love and Grace to all of you...

Evil.Eye.<(I)> out and calling this beef... pounded and squashed.

 

[glorydaz]

So... out of everything I said... my friends didn't repent? So repent means STOP being a carnal Screw up? Angel is on that physical judge game!

And not repent in Angel's terms is clearly connected to Revelation as Angel quoted it very clearly.

"My God" says Angel... after I had went on about one Jesus that saves.

Angel is on that I'm a good person jive. I've known this. Angel 100% believes in eternal Hell fire in a non open minded way. I know! I commented on both sides.

So wether it is admitted by Angel or not... They indeed are mum about the struggling sinner.
g friends unrepentant... What she wrote and quoted is clear.

This is a Circus Joke!

No fake apologies from me.. [MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION] and Angel... I says what I mean and didn't st... st... stutter.

So... that's that!

# PERIOD!!!



This is straight :nono:

So all that ranting and raving and you missed her entire point....which I believe she made very clearly. She was comparing drugs with sorcery.....the dangers of drugs, especially those this article was talking about. Go back to the OP, for crying out loud and get off your ridiculous pity party. SINCE YOU INSIST ON FOCUSING ON "unrepentant", I'll highlight the part that pertains to the OP.

Revelation 9:21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries(/drug use) nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.

The word translated as sorcery there, is the greek word that drugs and pharmacy comes from directly.

I suggest you go dry out EE, because I'm half tempted to lose all respect for you.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

So all that ranting and raving and you missed her entire point....which I believe she made very clearly. She was comparing drugs with sorcery.....the dangers of drugs, especially those this article was talking about. Go back to the OP, for crying out loud and get off your ridiculous pity party. SINCE YOU INSIST ON FOCUSING ON "unrepentant", I'll highlight the part that pertains to the OP.



I suggest you go dry out EE, because I'm half tempted to lose all respect for you.

Lol... I wish I was 3 sheets... I'm totally sober and have been for a disgusting amount of time.

If she were to "Unsay" that my friends are "unrepentant"... I'll be sweet... but... I don't see it. You see the good in everyone too... and you know what I mean!

All of God's best to you and yours...

EE

 

[Tambora]

No difference in God's eyes.

OK, thanks.

Let me now ask you this (and it's not to be flippant, but a genuine question, and not just directed at you) ....

Why not just use the word that most folks in the world are universally familiar with?
Wouldn't it be much more beneficial and efficient to say it that way to start with, so no one has to guess at what you mean?

I'll give another example of what I mean ....
The 'Sacred Name Movement' will say 'Yahweh' (which most folks in the world will be unfamiliar with and not have a clue who you are talking about) instead of 'GOD'.
As if using the vocabulary that is universally familiar would not be 'technical' enough to be correct.

In my opinion, using a vocabulary that most are not even familiar with is a piss poor way to communicate with them.
I don't know why folks do it.

"Spring" is the source of water.

Is it really?
Can a spring with no water generate water?
I mean, is a dried up spring with no water really considered to still be a spring?
The water didn't cease to exist because the spring dried up.
The water will keep flowing underground till it finds another hole to flow through.


It's probably just me not being able to see the analogy you use, cause I lived in an area that had a lot of underground water, and springs would pop up and dry up all the time in different places.

When we've talked before, I think we are always pretty close.

Yeah, when it comes to the BOC not being able to be cast out, we are in agreement. It is unmerited and we did not become 'good enough'.
:cheers:

 

[glorydaz]

Lol... I wish I was 3 sheets... I'm totally sober and have been for a disgusting amount of time.

If she were to "Unsay" that my friends are "unrepentant"... I'll be sweet... but... I don't see it. You see the good in everyone too... and you know what I mean!

All of God's best to you and yours...

EE

I heard her say over and over again that you were "lying" about what she'd said. You won't, and don't deserve, anymore than that.

 

[Nihilo]

Christian Ministers to Use 'Magic Mushrooms' for 'Religious Experience' for Johns Hopkins Study



In other words, his wild fantasy is leading people away from God and to a counterfeit.

Would you ever allow yourself to be part of any experiment like this?

It's stupid that they think the participants or test subjects wouldn't suspect the "guides" they mentioned in the fourth paragraph up. Nobody consuming enough magic mushroom active ingredient, to make it clinically and scientifically valuable, wouldn't suspect the "guides," and the whole study itself, and all the people involved in it, when consuming that active ingredient. They might deliberately mislead the leaders of this study, even accidentally participating in an unconscious conspiracy with other individuals, whether with other test subjects, or with the scientists themselves, or with both, all at the same time. Once people start acting like that, who is the study leader, and who are the test subjects? It's either fluid, or it can reverse permanently, in which case the test subject is running the show by behaving in ways known to elicit and evoke known gaming responses in the superficial leaders of the study, thus steering them around, to arrive at a conclusion that the test subjects want you to conclude.

And the guides aren't that bright, so they won't notice what's happening, and it's not that they're not that bright, which is only because they aren't supervised, and if they're the supervisor, it's because you should recognize that studying someone else, in any other way than admiringly, is censored. It requires hierarchy, to do that. If you're upset with hierarchy, but you judge others, then look in the mirror, because in order to judge, you instantiate hierarchy.

And if you're OK with hierarchy, then you should believe the Catholic faith. Hierarchy comes from God, and the only thing that justifies believing in hierarchy, is believing the Good News that Jesus Christ is risen from the dead.

And besides hierarchy and judgment, which go hand-in-hand, there's also that the most sophisticated people act under the radar, meaning that things work out their way, because they operate according to, and in tandem with randomness, exactly when it benefits them, and when it doesn't benefit them, they exercise self-control. You can't find anywhere where they're cheating, because all their success comes from bets that they conveniently made, paying off, and anybody could have made the same bets, and some people did, but there's only some people who are so consistently successful that they become "stars." With sheer persistence, successful actors and musicians earn their livings from their showmanship, and sheer persistence is the difference between success and failure, much more frequently than people think.

And the Church can mow the earth right now if she picks the strategically ideal focus.

 

[Eagles Wings]

And they did not repent of their sorcery/drug use...

Agree

 

[Tambora]

@Tambora ... I know you don't take sides

Yes I do.

but thank you for answering the questions you answered

You're welcome.


I can tell you that Lon, A4T, and GloryDaz do not think that using drugs or not using drugs contributes in any way to their salvation.
But as Paul tells us, just because we can sin doesn't mean that it is beneficial for our lives or others lives to do so.
We should be alert of how we impact others by our actions, and do the things that cause the least amount of harm possible.
Drug users fail in that respect.

 

[Lon]

OK, thanks.

Let me now ask you this (and it's not to be flippant, but a genuine question, and not just directed at you) ....

Why not just use the word that most folks in the world are universally familiar with?
Wouldn't it be much more beneficial and efficient to say it that way to start with, so no one has to guess at what you mean?

I'll give another example of what I mean ....
The 'Sacred Name Movement' will say 'Yahweh' (which most folks in the world will be unfamiliar with and not have a clue who you are talking about) instead of 'GOD'.
As if using the vocabulary that is universally familiar would not be 'technical' enough to be correct.

In my opinion, using a vocabulary that most are not even familiar with is a piss poor way to communicate with them.
I don't know why folks do it.

Sure, I agree AND can always use help ensuring a message is more easily understood. On this, can you give me a short version of how you'd say it? Thank you ahead of time.

Is it really?
Can a spring with no water generate water?
I mean, is a dried up spring with no water really considered to still be a spring?
The water didn't cease to exist because the spring dried up.
The water will keep flowing underground till it finds another hole to flow through.

Yet spring always means source. Not trying for confrontational, just trying to get the context for your question because the Lord Jesus Christ is for us, all in all, the source and life. For me: John 15:5 and Colossians 1:17 but as I said, I'm not really sure where you a re going with the analogy so would like to hear more, and this too, thank you ahead of time.

It's probably just me not being able to see the analogy you use, cause I lived in an area that had a lot of underground water, and springs would pop up and dry up all the time in different places.

No, I think it's good, I'm just wanting you take over and share it with me (and the thread). Please and thank you.

Yeah, when it comes to the BOC not being able to be cast out, we are in agreement. It is unmerited and we did not become 'good enough'.
:cheers:

Always brings tears of joy. Our blessed Lord merited it and gave it in love. We didn't just become 'good enough' we became something incredible. 1 John 3:2 blows me away. In Him

 

[Tambora]

Hierarchy comes from God [/QUOTE]For sure!

But not every hierarchy was a good one.

...... and here it comes .....

Hitler.

 

[Tambora]

Scan you give me a short version of how you'd say it?

A dead man can't give himself life.

Yet spring always means source.

If there is water.
If there is no water, then what is it the source of?

Not trying for confrontational,

Me either, so no worries.

just trying to get the context for your question because the Lord Jesus Christ is for us, all in all, the source and life.

OK, you equate the spring as being GOD.
So who/what is the water?


In the physical world, water is always there.
Either it flows up from somewhere you did not look for, or it can flow up from somewhere that you dug a well.
But the water was always there and had no source that generated the water (other than the creation week), but water was already here before man existed.
Man didn't have to look for the source of water to have water.
To put it plainly, you can't find a source of water without finding water itself.
If there is no water there, it's just a source of nothing.
Of course that is talking about physical water.

Let's get to the spiritual water.
Was there ever a time when the Son did not have spiritual water?
Jesus was/is never without spiritual water. Right?
I guess I see it more as Jesus is the water.
He didn't create or generate the spiritual water, He was the water.
Spiritual water had no beginning, so it had no source that created/generated it.
It always was because GOD always was.

To me, there is no difference between a source of water and water.
A spring is just flowing water.
If there is no water flowing, there is no spring.

 

[Nihilo]

Hierarchy comes from God

For sure!

But not every hierarchy was a good one.

...... and here it comes .....

Hitler.

It is the separation between religion and civil government, and the recognition and protection of religious liberty, that is why the United States of America is the uniquely great nation that we are today. Other countries have tried to copy us, but nobody is as adamant as America is, wrt the freedom of religion. Nazi Germany persecuted religions they didn't like, and European countries are so befuddled about how to administrate civil government while recognizing and protecting religious liberty, that they have a terrorism problem now. We don't tolerate that in America. People can believe whatever censored thing they like, and we can verbally challenge them as rigorously as we feel necessary. Europe doesn't get that, they persecute those who verbally spar with other religions, under the guise of protecting the "victims'" religious freedom, but that's not religious freedom, to have the civil government protect you from hearing and reading challenges to your religious beliefs. That's part of religious liberty, is that people can attack your faith verbally whenever they want; it's not against the law in America to do this, because America understands that wars that can be decided with words, are better than wars involving violence.

 

[Truster]

I was drunk when I was saved. I'd been drunk, seriously drunk for years. If it were necessary for a man to be sober to be saved then I'd still be in Adam or more probably dead.

 

[God's Truth]

Faith + what?

Foolish Galatian!!! Who has beguiled you?

People like you make a mockery of God. You make God of no effect.

All these drug addicts saying they are Christians when they continue their whole life doing drugs is just plain wrong.

You can't see that they have succumbed to Satan AND STILL HAVE NOT REPENTED of their sins?

Don't you know about the scripture that says throw the man out who is doing this so that Satan can have his way with his body and his spirit be saved is about a CHRISTIAN drug addict having such a hard time and feels disciplined doing drugs that they REPENT and stop doing drugs, all because they love Jesus?

Children of God take every hard time in their life as a learning tool. We are the best, and we want to do the best because of our love of Christ.

Those people who you see never ever conquering after decades of wrongs, they needed to hear the truth. The truth is that if you really love God you will obey.

 

[God's Truth]

I was drunk when I was saved. I'd been drunk, seriously drunk for years. If it were necessary for a man to be sober to be saved then I'd still be in Adam or more probably dead.

And the false teacher that taught you that false doctrine will suffer more greatly in the lake of fire.

You have been ensnared by Satan to tell the saved they are not. You have been ensnared in a false doctrine to teach a way to hinder others.

 

[God's Truth]

An unregenerate cannot regenerate, nor can clean water come from a dirty spring, but as James says "such things ought not be." God will discipline the wayward but we can say 'wrong direction.' Perhaps you and A4T are in friction over correction vs. a need of salvation. Drug use is certainly a sign of either disobedience/lack of discernment/not profitable, but it also 'can' be a sign of no salvation. MAD nor Reformed theology saves, God saves. Anyone caught up in drug use doesn't know what they are missing in Him or their walk with Him, one or the other. I'm not sure there is any disagreement over such, perhaps a need to spell out the difference :idunno: In Him -Lon

There is no truth in anything that you say. You are a Calvinist who does not teach the Way; but you mock those not saved and hinder them from ever being saved.

A person, any person can be saved if they get Jesus' teachings and do what he says.

You preach no, save me first. That is hindrance.