Christian Ministers to Use 'Magic Mushrooms' for 'Religious Experience' for A Study

[Truster]

The only 'peace' to be found is by those who attend to the spirit of 'God' within them, for "to be spiritually minded is life and peace"

Music is a gift from the Creator,...and the skilled playing of the harp by David DID IN FACT soothe the soul of Saul, didn't it? I enjoy music as the sound of 'God' in its various tones and frequencies, for the sheer enjoyment and pleasure of it, in service to the Creator. Even John notes that some of the redeemed have the 'harps of God', and these I believer are frequency-modulators of some kind, that translates the language of God into melody - hence the sounds of heaven are usually represented by 'harps' since the full musical scale can be played by its strings. The inspiration of David (God's beloved) breathes thru all true ministers and minstrels of the Lord. I cannot deny the mystic order or legacy of the key of David, from whence springs the Messiah. The 'harp' of 'God' is 'universal', and so is the 'language' of the Spirit.



And yet those 'substances' were made by the Creator for various reasons and purposes, hence the medicinal value and properties of many herbs and plants, seeds and fruit which was made for our 'food'. Of course any 'substance' can be 'mis-used' or 'abused' but this is where wisdom and discretion guide. In this context, even as the sages and shamans of many different religious traditions employed natural substances for good,...either 'healing' or in 'religious ceremonies' which enhanced their perception of the Spirit, to receive guidance and direction. This isn't any less 'occult' or a form of 'divination' than consulting the 'Urim' and 'Thummim', casting lots, or effecting some other kind of 'oracle' that was practiced by the Hebrews, or any other ancient school. Therefore on one end of the spectrum I find it entertaining that some fundies are all worked up over anything of this kind, like its all 'satanic' or something. I think some ignorant presumption is there, besides a need for further research and consideration of the subject, understood in its proper 'context'.

The ability to make music was given to the line of Cain. Go figure...

 

[freelight]

Honor to the Tabernacle of David.........

Honor to the Tabernacle of David.........

The ability to make music was given to the line of Cain. Go figure...

My former commentary holds, especially in light of the musical lineage and divine ordering of music to be used in worship of YHWH found in the OT. Also important to remember that in the last days 'the tabernacle of David' is going to be 'restored',...which would include a renewal and return of instrumental and vocal worship in the house of God, all to the glory of God of course. I had a thread on this very subject.

Your one liner above does not in the least bit discount or discredit 'music', since 'God' is its very source, who by his creative word (sound-current) brings all things into being, and by that divine word orchestrates all to his own glory and pleasure. It makes no difference that the first account of music is granted to a person of the lineage of Cain (for apparently his 'mark' or 'curse' did not effect musical ability), for later the musical order employed for religious purposes was appointed to the Levites in their divine service and most NOTABLY during the reign of David, and this by divine command, for the temple worship and special ceremonies of praise and adulation were organized specially in the worship of YHWH. Whole orders of musicians, who employed different kinds of instruments invented by David and others inspired by 'God', were used to God's GLORY, as well as choirs.

Music in a biblical context is given full liberty in its use in divine service, more pronounced in some eras than others, but never annulled or banned by divine order,....its proper restoration in true worship will be granted in those dispensations that are rightly 'prepared' or 'ordained' if you will,...for David's house will be restored. It is the Return to Belovedness, the beauty of holiness expressed in genuine worship, both inner and outer.

We would add that just like with 'magic mushrooms', allowed to grow by the Creator, one could misuse or abuse these substances, and such also applies to 'music'...since there are different kinds and different ways it could be used. Since true worshippers will worship Yah in spirit and truth,...this includes all 'breath' and 'instruments' that the breath(spirit) of God can speak or sing THRU. 'God' is the originator of music, including every form and instrument used in its expression, and as we touched on earlier....even WE are the harps of God (not only do we carry harps, we are the temple of Spirit, and are instruments as well, our very soul-bodies). Spirit animates our being, inspiring it. We are His strings.

See: Music in the OT

 

[Truster]

My former commentary holds, especially in light of the musical lineage and divine ordering of music to be used in worship of YHWH found in the OT. Also important to remember that in the last days 'the tabernacle of David' is going to be 'restored',...which would include a renewal and return of instrumental and vocal worship in the house of God, all to the glory of God of course. I had a thread on this very subject.

Your one liner above does not in the least bit discount or discredit 'music', since 'God' is its very source, who by his creative word (sound-current) brings all things into being, and by that divine word orchestrates all to his own glory and pleasure. It makes no difference that the first account of music is granted to a person of the lineage of Cain (for apparently his 'mark' or 'curse' did not effect musical ability), for later the musical order employed for religious purposes was appointed to the Levites in their divine service and most NOTABLY during the reign of David, and this by divine command, for the temple worship and special ceremonies of praise and adulation were organized specially in the worship of YHWH. Whole orders of musicians, who employed different kinds of instruments invented by David and others inspired by 'God', were used to God's GLORY, as well as choirs.

Music in a biblical context is given full liberty in its use in divine service, more pronounced in some eras than others, but never annulled or banned by divine order,....its proper restoration in true worship will be granted in those dispensations that are rightly 'prepared' or 'ordained' if you will,...for David's house will be restored. It is the Return to Belovedness, the beauty of holiness expressed in genuine worship, both inner and outer.

We would add that just like with 'magic mushrooms', allowed to grow by the Creator, one could misuse or abuse these substances, and such also applies to 'music'...since there are different kinds and different ways it could be used. Since true worshippers will worship Yah in spirit and truth,...this includes all 'breath' and 'instruments' that the breath(spirit) of God can speak or sing THRU. 'God' is the originator of music, including every form and instrument used in its expression, and as we touched on earlier....even WE are the harps of God (not only do we carry harps, we are the temple of Spirit, and are instruments as well, our very soul-bodies). Spirit animates our being, inspiring it. We are His strings.

See: Music in the OT

Your "commentary" stems from your wicked imagination.

 

[Jonahdog]

Truster is so much fun, who needs drugs.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

The historical Jesus is the mental mushroom of Romes bloody cult. Or ponder the actual meaning of the letters "in tent" application Galatians 4:24, Luke 17:20-21.

Riding the Dan Brown Train and believing that the "Mother Church" is the "Foundation" of the "Body of Christ"?

Long... Disappointing Sigh! Zeke, Those Drugs haven't helped your discernment one bit!

 

[freelight]

God the giver of all substance.................

God the giver of all substance.................

Your "commentary" stems from your wicked imagination.

No, it comes from universal and specific 'knowledge' of the subject at hand, even though the 'music' issue is veering off the topic,...in which case the 'manna' from heaven could have very well been 'shrooms' - it dazzled the people so much, that it was a curious "what is it?" - the 'mushroom' goes back in antiquity of being an agent to transport the mind to a realm of expanded consciousness, wherein such states one can commune with Universal Consciousness which we commonly name 'God'. On the 'shroom' issue I'm doing a bit more research, mostly looking at the symbolic or actual historical use of 'fungi' and 'plant-sourced' substances for religious purposes.

Some have gone further to say Jesus was actually a 'code-name' or 'personality-construct' invented for the sacred shroom, the gospel accounts being an allegorical story around such 'agent' or 'doorway' by which souls enter into the kingdom (God-consciousness). If anything why not look into the possibility or figurative language connecting these ideas, since its always a healthy practice to even question your own ideas, beliefs and concepts about 'God', unless you know all there is to know absolutely about this 'personality' or 'being' you worship as 'God'. I'm not afraid to do that, hence my liberal and eclectic approach is more figurative and symbolic looking at the meanings behind the terms and symbols. 'God' is just a word for starters, no matter what special or unique names or titles you give for the personality you assume as 'God'. Finally,...the only medium thru which you can even perceive, know or conceive of 'God' is via 'consciousness', so any 'gateway' or 'door' would have to be a segway, portal or 'channel' thru which you are absorbed or 'baptized' into the Ocean from which all things arise, which is why the 'Christ-figure' or 'Anointed One' is the agent or means for souls to enter into it. (the way, the truth, the life, light, the gate, etc.) - i.e. 'Christ Consciousness'.

We would also note that the 'imagination' is the doorway into the spirit-realm, and it is a faculty innate in man, as it is innate in 'God', since 'God' is Infinite Intelligence Itself, the I AM....from which all images, forms and appearances arise, in this way 'God' is the Infinite Mother since all things/beings arise from Her womb, which is infinity. I was banned earlier for sharing about the divine Mother archetype, but will continue to honor 'God' as BOTH 'Father' and 'Mother', since both gender qualities and attributes originate in DEITY, of which man is the express image in dual form. But perhaps I digress.

I'd open my 'imagination' more to its creative impulse to see the esoteric meaning behind this all, and question everything you think is 'real'. It could be that much we consider as 'reality' is just so much an illusion, and this includes our 'beliefs' or 'concepts' of 'God'. If 'God' were symbolized or representative of a 'shroom', a living substance that grants one access into 'heaven', then such a meaning is in harmony with our traditional concept of Deity, but in its more pure ethereal form. Consciousness is the doorway, the only medium existing for anything to be known, that medium thru which the knower knows anything, and this includes our concepts or images of 'God', which could really be 'God' experiencing all creation thru every individual mind which makes up the collective. It's all 'God' really experiencing ALL via its own extension as 'creation' and in the 'creative process' (evolution). This is all that is going on.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I see a positive and informative direction in this study, which is sincere in its intentions, as it surely does have VALUE in discovering how these substances affect consciousness and more particularly 'religious experience'. It is quite significant as well, as comparing the various religious adherents as it appears the experience expands their consciousness to a higher more universal awareness, where the oneness of life is recognized which inspires a deeper appreciation of the various religious traditions, which are all actually different expressions of One Universal Reality anyways.

Therefore I find the choice of using the words 'wild fantasy' and 'counterfeit' above as being unnecessarily biased and presumptuous. In the evaluation of true human progress and understanding the nature of 'mind', science and spirit must join to synthesize and appertain a true holistic vision of human experience, along which lines can enhance, foster and empower a greater appreciation and co-operation of efforts towards universal peace, progress and brotherhood, which is what our planet needs more than ever. In this interest therefore, I approve of such experiments, done with good intent, ethically performed (responsibly), then the results being used for our own enlightenment gathered from the discovery of altered or enhanced states of consciousness.

Ultimately however,...spirituality or religious experience is something innate and natural to one's existence, assuming that there is something of 'God', some divine spirit, essence or fragment of Deity that indwells every human soul that each individual can access for themselves, as 'authentic religious experience'. Other methods such as prayer, meditation, mantras, going into the silence, breathing exercises, etc....can prepare individuals to enter into Universal Consciousness without the use of herbs or drugs, but the study of these may inform us better on how we can naturally enter into a larger sphere of transcendental awareness for the higher good of all concerned.

I'll get right to it... I have friends that have done drugs and I have friends that still spark up. But... and I emphasize BUT... Recreational Pharmaceuticals have never... ever... done a good thing for many people. Sure... there are the exceptions, and there are those that self medicate on a psychotropic scale, instead of blowing their brains out... but if a person needs to alter their chemical state to get close to God... they are doing something wrong.

The Gospel is sufficient for me. ... Understatement...

Pan Theism and Pan-an-theism are two separate matters. One binds man to being... literally ONE with God like Jesus "IS". The other binds to a study of what the Source of life within ALL living things "Is".

Could you provide one biblical text where a prophet was tripping eggs to "get closer to God"?

If you can't... your "commentary" most certainly... does not hold.

There are drug addicts that are saved and will die in the grips of addiction... but if you ask these individuals if the addiction is "helping" their relationship with God... they will most assuredly attest that it only shows them how badly they need Him.

Addiction is miserable and drugs are a chemical high that fades and requires a recharge...

That Good Good Jesus WATER quenches and provides the eternal well that springs up from within... and no... I like me some good drinks now and again... but the fire water isn't the WATER...

Grace through Faith and the realization that God embraces us with His very own Humble Heart is more than enough to propel anyone into a never ending "Spiritual TRIP".

If the pastors wanted an excuse to experiment with drugs... they should have simply taken a break from the ministry and sewed those oats.

The entire idea is corrupt and observably lame.

I respect that some people need to sincerely detach themselves from reality... but the idea of a drug inspired sermon isn't a good idea!

A drug inspired novel? Yup... those are always pretty good... but mixing faith and Chemistry is always a quick trip down a prim-rose path that leads to ... Ozzy. I'm not knocking the guy... I'm just sayen.

Spoiler

 

[Truster]

No, it comes from universal and specific 'knowledge' of the subject at hand, even though the 'music' issue is veering off the topic,...in which case the 'manna' from heaven could have very well been 'shrooms' - it dazzled the people so much, that it was a curious "what is it?" - the 'mushroom' goes back in antiquity of being an agent to transport the mind to a realm of expanded consciousness, wherein such states one can commune with Universal Consciousness which we commonly name 'God'. On the 'shroom' issue I'm doing a bit more research, mostly looking at the symbolic or actual historical use of 'fungi' and 'plant-sourced' substances for religious purposes.

Some have gone further to say Jesus was actually a 'code-name' or 'personality-construct' invented for the sacred shroom, the gospel accounts being an allegorical story around such 'agent' or 'doorway' by which souls enter into the kingdom (God-consciousness). If anything why not look into the possibility or figurative language connecting these ideas, since its always a healthy practice to even question your own ideas, beliefs and concepts about 'God', unless you know all there is to know absolutely about this 'personality' or 'being' you worship as 'God'. I'm not afraid to do that, hence my liberal and eclectic approach is more figurative and symbolic looking at the meanings behind the terms and symbols. 'God' is just a word for starters, no matter what special or unique names or titles you give for the personality you assume as 'God'. Finally,...the only medium thru which you can even perceive, know or conceive of 'God' is via 'consciousness', so any 'gateway' or 'door' would have to be a segway, portal or 'channel' thru which you are absorbed or 'baptized' into the Ocean from which all things arise, which is why the 'Christ-figure' or 'Anointed One' is the agent or means for souls to enter into it. (the way, the truth, the life, light, the gate, etc.) - i.e. 'Christ Consciousness'.

We would also note that the 'imagination' is the doorway into the spirit-realm, and it is a faculty innate in man, as it is innate in 'God', since 'God' is Infinite Intelligence Itself, the I AM....from which all images, forms and appearances arise, in this way 'God' is the Infinite Mother since all things/beings arise from Her womb, which is infinity. I was banned earlier for sharing about the divine Mother archetype, but will continue to honor 'God' as BOTH 'Father' and 'Mother', since both gender qualities and attributes originate in DEITY, of which man is the express image in dual form. But perhaps I digress.

I'd open my 'imagination' more to its creative impulse to see the esoteric meaning behind this all, and question everything you think is 'real'. It could be that much we consider as 'reality' is just so much an illusion, and this includes our 'beliefs' or 'concepts' of 'God'. If 'God' were symbolized or representative of a 'shroom', a living substance that grants one access into 'heaven', then such a meaning is in harmony with our traditional concept of Deity, but in its more pure ethereal form. Consciousness is the doorway, the only medium existing for anything to be known, that medium thru which the knower knows anything, and this includes our concepts or images of 'God', which could really be 'God' experiencing all creation thru every individual mind which makes up the collective. It's all 'God' really experiencing ALL via its own extension as 'creation' and in the 'creative process' (evolution). This is all that is going on.

As a sinner without saving grace you are disposed to believe any lie that you are presented with. The energised delusion that is sent to those that received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved, is all you have.

 

[daqq]

According to Enoch, drug effects from certain plants, along with sorcery, was taught by the "sons of God" (ie: Watchers) to the humans. This contributed to the downfall of man and the Great Flood.

"These substances" were a result of the Fall. Thorns and thistles are also a result of the Fall of Mankind. Satan (ie: the Devil) currently has the earth "firmly in his grasp". These psychedelic substances are a direct pathway to the evil empire of Satan (ie: the Devil), The Prince of the Power of the Air (aether).

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places (ie: 1st & 2nd heaven) - Ephesians 6:12

Riding the Dan Brown Train and believing that the "Mother Church" is the "Foundation" of the "Body of Christ"?

Long... Disappointing Sigh! Zeke, Those Drugs haven't helped your discernment one bit!

Hard to believe I agree with either of you on anything, but there it is, I suppose there is a first for everything.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Hard to believe I agree with either of you on anything, but there it is, I suppose there is a first for everything.

Rotfl... It feels good to not be on opposite sides of the fence, good friend that I go round and round with. I'm logging off for the day to commemorate this pinnacle of ToL experience!!!

Hope your summer is going fantastic,

- EE

 

[freelight]

I'll get right to it... I have friends that have done drugs and I have friends that still spark up. But... and I emphasize BUT... Recreational Pharmaceuticals have never... ever... done a good thing for many people. Sure... there are the exceptions, and there are those that self medicate on a psychotropic scale, instead of blowing their brains out... but if a person needs to alter their chemical state to get close to God... they are doing something wrong.

The Gospel is sufficient for me. ... Understatement...

Pan Theism and Pan-an-theism are two separate matters. One binds man to being... literally ONE with God like Jesus "IS". The other binds to a study of what the Source of life within ALL living things "Is".

Could you provide one biblical text where a prophet was tripping eggs to "get closer to God"?

If you can't... your "commentary" most certainly... does not hold.

There are drug addicts that are saved and will die in the grips of addiction... but if you ask these individuals if the addiction is "helping" their relationship with God... they will most assuredly attest that it only shows them how badly they need Him.

Addiction is miserable and drugs are a chemical high that fades and requires a recharge...

That Good Good Jesus WATER quenches and provides the eternal well that springs up from within... and no... I like me some good drinks now and again... but the fire water isn't the WATER...

Grace through Faith and the realization that God embraces us with His very own Humble Heart is more than enough to propel anyone into a never ending "Spiritual TRIP".

If the pastors wanted an excuse to experiment with drugs... they should have simply taken a break from the ministry and sewed those oats.

The entire idea is corrupt and observably lame.

I respect that some people need to sincerely detach themselves from reality... but the idea of a drug inspired sermon isn't a good idea!

A drug inspired novel? Yup... those are always pretty good... but mixing faith and Chemistry is always a quick trip down a prim-rose path that leads to ... Ozzy. I'm not knocking the guy... I'm just sayen.

Spoiler

Greetings EE,

I'm not advocating the irresponsible use of drugs, natural or synthetic, but recognizing that valuable information could be had by investigating its use 'scientifically'. If this includes their use in religious ceremony to effect altered states of consciousness and if such CAN have positive effects, then so be it. My interest was also the historical use and recorded 'benefits' if any of their use in getting closer to 'God', there are whole book written on the subject, so its open to speculation, evidence and debate.

As I noted, one does not NEED chemicals to attain God-consciousness, but they have been used to assist one into states of meditation and higher awareness in special cases, and it still stands that plants, seed, fruits, even FUNGUS can be used as food or medicine. Its HOW they are used that is according to wisdom and discretion. It ought to be clear I do not condone or encourage drug use, but when such is 'used', do so ethically and intelligently.

As far as the 'mushroom' being a 'secret substance' around which religious cults and traditions are built, that would be a matter of further research. We come back to 'right knowledge' and 'right use' of natural substances, common sense.

 

[Zeke]

According to Enoch, drug effects from certain plants, along with sorcery, was taught by the "sons of God" (ie: Watchers) to the humans. This contributed to the downfall of man and the Great Flood.

See my previous commentary,...pertinent points to consider there. Note these 'substances' were made by The Creator. You will also note that many herbs, oils, plant/seed substances were used by the Hebrew in their religious worship, ceremonies, anointing oils, incense, etc. These employments obviously have a purpose and do stimulate the senses (or why their special use and formulation???) Plants were given to man as both food and medicine. Wisdom and discretion guides us onto their proper 'use',...as anything COULD be misused. To equate the use of all plants or natural substances as 'pharmakia' or 'witchcraft' is ridiculous,...without further researching their use in religious rites and 'aids' in the enhancement of consciousness and spirit-communion.

For all you know, the 'manna' from heaven could have been 'magic mushrooms' of one form or another, but you'd have to do adequate research to rule that out, besides just assuming to know all about 'God' and his 'creation'. I'd gather there is a lot of real 'hocus pocus' passing off as inane religious beliefs and pre-packaged 'theology' out there mass marketed to 'easy believers', than a real study of 'divine magic' and using your own innate faculties of mind, in true service to Spirit, which is not a dogmatic or cultish enterprise, but an authentic and universal one.

Riding the Dan Brown Train and believing that the "Mother Church" is the "Foundation" of the "Body of Christ"?

Long... Disappointing Sigh! Zeke, Those Drugs haven't helped your discernment one bit!

Notice eve you are missing my point about those who recoil over others using outward substance for enhancing their minds when you and most traditionalist use Jesus in the same Manner when we all come inwardly able to receive revelation from the Divine. I have never used mushrooms or any other substance to walk in the spirit., and I don't snort assumption based tradition that magically transforms symbolic teaching into historic truth.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Only ONE WAY! No other way! No Divine connection without THE WAY (JESUS)

Only ONE WAY! No other way! No Divine connection without THE WAY (JESUS)

Notice that you are missing my point about those who recoil over others using outward substance for enhancing their minds when you and most traditionalist use Jesus in the same Manner when we all come inwardly able to receive revelation from the Divine. I have never used mushrooms or any other substance to walk in the spirit., and I don't snort assumption based tradition that magically transforms symbolic teaching into historic truth.

You can't bypass Jesus...

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

There is no OTHER WAY... (period)

The "inner Divine" {1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8, Eph. 1:13) isn't "bypassing" or "snorting" "assumption based tradition". Harmony and Unity are grand... but ... er... no. Many rivers, one Ocean is a bunch of B to the S. Many People, ONE JESUS.

Does that bother you Zeke? I'm quite adamantly fond of making it clear that Jesus is the ONLY Way... Just like He was and IS. I know that some will be saved that won't even know HIS NAME. But... and I emphasize BUT... that Name is attached to Luke 2:11.

Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”​

Many Rivers... ONLY ONE JESUS. Anyone who says that Jesus must be gone past or bypassed to be saved, get to THE FATHER or Imbibe in the Divine, is a FLAT OUT...

 

[Zeke]

Agree as long as you realize you are the same I am with that spark of eternity asleep in all men made of one blood/conscience! What's the matter you don't like not being able exclude parts of the body you don't like? Ah you will get over it.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Agree as long as you realize you are the same I am with that spark of eternity asleep in all men made of one blood/conscience!

:thumb:

What's the matter you don't like not being able exclude parts of the body you don't like? Ah you will get over it.

You've got me messed up with someone else. I may dish out theological hell in deep portions to people, but my desire of "inclusion" is much deeper than I can even begin to express.

I am adamant that Faith in Jesus, *alone* saves, because of that desire of inclusion that ... frankly... Jesus placed within my very soul.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Remember Zeke... Theological 'Debate" and fellowship are two separate matters.

At the end of the day... I would buy anyone I debate with a beer and a shot of their choice, and imbibe with them... but if the Alcohol offended them... I would buy them a Root Beer and some Nachos and break bread with them.

Don't confuse my biblical passion, with my heart. They are Symbiant... but I serve the Sinless that saves us sinners and Loves "Unconditionally" (1 Cor. 13) beyond our deepest comprehension.

Fair enough?

 

[Zeke]

According to Enoch, drug effects from certain plants, along with sorcery, was taught by the "sons of God" (ie: Watchers) to the humans. This contributed to the downfall of man and the Great Flood.

See my previous commentary,...pertinent points to consider there. Note these 'substances' were made by The Creator. You will also note that many herbs, oils, plant/seed substances were used by the Hebrew in their religious worship, ceremonies, anointing oils, incense, etc. These employments obviously have a purpose and do stimulate the senses (or why their special use and formulation???) Plants were given to man as both food and medicine. Wisdom and discretion guides us onto their proper 'use',...as anything COULD be misused. To equate the use of all plants or natural substances as 'pharmakia' or 'witchcraft' is ridiculous,...without further researching their use in religious rites and 'aids' in the enhancement of consciousness and spirit-communion.

For all you know, the 'manna' from heaven could have been 'magic mushrooms' of one form or another, but you'd have to do adequate research to rule that out, besides just assuming to know all about 'God' and his 'creation'. I'd gather there is a lot of real 'hocus pocus' passing off as inane religious beliefs and pre-packaged 'theology' out there mass marketed to 'easy believers', than a real study of 'divine magic' and using your own innate faculties of mind, in true service to Spirit, which is not a dogmatic or cultish enterprise, but an authentic and universal one.

Greetings EE,

I'm not advocating the irresponsible use of drugs, natural or synthetic, but recognizing that valuable information could be had by investigating its use 'scientifically'. If this includes their use in religious ceremony to effect altered states of consciousness and if such CAN have positive effects, then so be it. My interest was also the historical use and recorded 'benefits' if any of their use in getting closer to 'God', there are whole book written on the subject, so its open to speculation, evidence and debate.

As I noted, one does not NEED chemicals to attain God-consciousness, but they have been used to assist one into states of meditation and higher awareness in special cases, and it still stands that plants, seed, fruits, even FUNGUS can be used as food or medicine. Its HOW they are used that is according to wisdom and discretion. It ought to be clear I do not condone or encourage drug use, but when such is 'used', do so ethically and intelligently.

As far as the 'mushroom' being a 'secret substance' around which religious cults and traditions are built, that would be a matter of further research. We come back to 'right knowledge' and 'right use' of natural substances, common sense.

:thumb:



You've got me messed up with someone else. I may dish out theological hell in deep portions to people, but my desire of "inclusion" is much deeper than I can even begin to express.

I am adamant that Faith in Jesus, *alone* saves, because of that desire of inclusion that ... frankly... Jesus placed within my very soul.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Remember Zeke... Theological 'Debate" and fellowship are two separate matters.

At the end of the day... I would buy anyone I debate with a beer and a shot of their choice, and imbibe with them... but if the Alcohol offended them... I would buy them a Root Beer and some Nachos and break bread with them.

Don't confuse my biblical passion, with my heart. They are Symbiant... but I serve the Sinless that saves us sinners and Loves "Unconditionally" (1 Cor. 13) beyond our deepest comprehension.

Fair enough?

Fair enough.

 

[freelight]

Fair trade in theology,...tickets on sale before blow out........

Fair trade in theology,...tickets on sale before blow out........

Fair enough.

Well for heaven's sake, lets just take a zen moment and share just a small healthy dose of shrooms and get over it :crackup: :thumb: - lighten up folks,....if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed. In Spirit is all already, so it is that divine source that is Life itself, that we immerse ourselves in, as those born of Spirit. - the wind blows where it wills, but who can see or know its effects, but by the inward light and fruit of such divinity. If you are born of God that is all you need, for being begotten by God insures an inheritance. (some conditions are innate, others generated in the soul thru the renewing of the spirit, and so on.....)

While I haven't "tried out" magic shrooms before, I love other forms of edible mushrooms, they are pretty yummy. If you want to take things further, see Paul's liberal view of giving thanks to 'God' to even food offered to idols! - throw in a few mushrooms,...no biggie. Throw whatever into the pot, just give thanks to God (have fun with it).

 

[patrick jane]

:thumb:



You've got me messed up with someone else. I may dish out theological hell in deep portions to people, but my desire of "inclusion" is much deeper than I can even begin to express.

I am adamant that Faith in Jesus, *alone* saves, because of that desire of inclusion that ... frankly... Jesus placed within my very soul.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Remember Zeke... Theological 'Debate" and fellowship are two separate matters.

At the end of the day... I would buy anyone I debate with a beer and a shot of their choice, and imbibe with them... but if the Alcohol offended them... I would buy them a Root Beer and some Nachos and break bread with them.

Don't confuse my biblical passion, with my heart. They are Symbiant... but I serve the Sinless that saves us sinners and Loves "Unconditionally" (1 Cor. 13) beyond our deepest comprehension.

Fair enough?

That's not fair

 

[Zeke]

According to Enoch, drug effects from certain plants, along with sorcery, was taught by the "sons of God" (ie: Watchers) to the humans. This contributed to the downfall of man and the Great Flood.

See my previous commentary,...pertinent points to consider there. Note these 'substances' were made by The Creator. You will also note that many herbs, oils, plant/seed substances were used by the Hebrew in their religious worship, ceremonies, anointing oils, incense, etc. These employments obviously have a purpose and do stimulate the senses (or why their special use and formulation???) Plants were given to man as both food and medicine. Wisdom and discretion guides us onto their proper 'use',...as anything COULD be misused. To equate the use of all plants or natural substances as 'pharmakia' or 'witchcraft' is ridiculous,...without further researching their use in religious rites and 'aids' in the enhancement of consciousness and spirit-communion.

For all you know, the 'manna' from heaven could have been 'magic mushrooms' of one form or another, but you'd have to do adequate research to rule that out, besides just assuming to know all about 'God' and his 'creation'. I'd gather there is a lot of real 'hocus pocus' passing off as inane religious beliefs and pre-packaged 'theology' out there mass marketed to 'easy believers', than a real study of 'divine magic' and using your own innate faculties of mind, in true service to Spirit, which is not a dogmatic or cultish enterprise, but an authentic and universal one.

Greetings EE,

I'm not advocating the irresponsible use of drugs, natural or synthetic, but recognizing that valuable information could be had by investigating its use 'scientifically'. If this includes their use in religious ceremony to effect altered states of consciousness and if such CAN have positive effects, then so be it. My interest was also the historical use and recorded 'benefits' if any of their use in getting closer to 'God', there are whole book written on the subject, so its open to speculation, evidence and debate.

As I noted, one does not NEED chemicals to attain God-consciousness, but they have been used to assist one into states of meditation and higher awareness in special cases, and it still stands that plants, seed, fruits, even FUNGUS can be used as food or medicine. Its HOW they are used that is according to wisdom and discretion. It ought to be clear I do not condone or encourage drug use, but when such is 'used', do so ethically and intelligently.

As far as the 'mushroom' being a 'secret substance' around which religious cults and traditions are built, that would be a matter of further research. We come back to 'right knowledge' and 'right use' of natural substances, common sense.

You can't bypass Jesus...

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

There is no OTHER WAY... (period)

The "inner Divine" {1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8, Eph. 1:13) isn't "bypassing" or "snorting" "assumption based tradition". Harmony and Unity are grand... but ... er... no. Many rivers, one Ocean is a bunch of B to the S. Many People, ONE JESUS.

Does that bother you Zeke? I'm quite adamantly fond of making it clear that Jesus is the ONLY Way... Just like He was and IS. I know that some will be saved that won't even know HIS NAME. But... and I emphasize BUT... that Name is attached to Luke 2:11.

Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”​

Many Rivers... ONLY ONE JESUS. Anyone who says that Jesus must be gone past or bypassed to be saved, get to THE FATHER or Imbibe in the Divine, is a FLAT OUT...

No there isn't just one Jesus/I sm, only one. pattern/way for the dead prodigal to return home.which is luke 17:20'-21.

 

[freelight]

No there isn't just one Jesus/I sm, only one. pattern/way for the dead prodigal to return home.which is luke 17:20'-21.

Since there is only One Absolute Reality, and IT is omnipresent,..there isn't so much a 'way' to it (although certain teachers or prophets may serve to point students to it), but a revelation of its omnipresence - hence this realm of divinity comes not with physical observation, but is a subjectivity of spirit-awareness, the "kingdom within", that which is already always all-pervading. This kingdom is spread across the whole earth, but few discover it, since it radiates from the root and heart of the very "I" of Consciousness itself. It isn't 'out there' as much as its the all permeating Light of Spirit shining in every soul.