Catholics Should Believe Their First Pope

Cruciform

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All one has to do is look. Why else would the "church" sell indulgences?
Once again, you need to look closer. The "selling" of indulgences was never a formal teaching of the Catholic Church, but was rather a regional abuse of the Christian doctrine of indulgences by certain leaders during the late Renaissance Period.

For more info, see this and this.


So much for your previous anti-Catholic claim.



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Cruciform
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Cruciform

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The bible is authoritative.
But---as you have already admitted---your preferred interpretations of the Bible are NOT authoritative. Whose doctrinal tradition, then, DOES have the authority to interpret Divine Revelation in a manner which is binding upon believers? I've already shown that only Christ's one historic Catholic Church possesses such inherent doctrinal authority, and that no recently-invented, man-made non-catholic sect can possibly claim such binding authority.

The rcc is telling you that you can't understand it to control you.
Just another unsubstantiated assertion from you. Post your proof.

If you stopped drinking the Kool-Aid and just read the bible, you would not see the rcc.
If you stopped drinking the Kool-Aid fed to you by your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect and read the Bible through the interpretive lens of Christ's one historic Church, you would not see the "Church of Christ" sect. (See how that works?)



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Cruciform
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turbosixx

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Once again, you need to look closer. The "selling" of indulgences was never a formal teaching of the Catholic Church, but was rather a regional abuse of the Christian doctrine of indulgences by certain leaders during the late Renaissance Period.

For more info, see this and this.


So much for your previous anti-Catholic claim.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

You can spin it how you like, but Rome sent out people to sell indulgences to acquire wealth. They used their religious authority for evil, plan and simple. The history of the rcc is riddled with skeletons and down right atrocities and they are continuing to pile up.
 

turbosixx

New member
But---as you have already admitted---your preferred interpretations of the Bible are NOT authoritative. Whose doctrinal tradition, then, DOES have the authority to interpret Divine Revelation in a manner which is binding upon believers? I've already shown that only Christ's one historic Catholic Church possesses such inherent doctrinal authority, and that no recently-invented, man-made non-catholic sect can possibly claim such binding authority.


Just another unsubstantiated assertion from you. Post your proof.


If you stopped drinking the Kool-Aid fed to you by your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect and read the Bible through the interpretive lens of Christ's one historic Church, you would not see the "Church of Christ" sect. (See how that works?)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Sorry, I tried to help but I have been a faithful watchman.
 

Cruciform

New member
We will never agree because we use different things for authority. I use God's word, you use mans.
Rather:
  • I rely on God's word (Divine Revelation: Scripture & Tradition) as infallibly and authoritatively taught by Christ's one historic Church, and
  • you rely on part of God's word (rejecting Tradition) as taught by your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect.
Which teachings, then, are binding upon believers, and which are the mere opinions of men? :think:

"According to Catholic teaching"
Catechism of the Catholic Church, 838
That's correct: "According to the authoritative teachings of that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself..." This is something that your favored man-made sect could never claim.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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turbosixx

New member
Rather:
  • I rely on God's word (Divine Revelation: Scripture & Tradition) as infallibly and authoritatively taught by Christ's one historic Church, and
  • you rely on part of God's word (rejecting Tradition) as taught by your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect.
Which teachings, then, are binding upon believers, and which are the mere opinions of men? :think:


That's correct: "According to the authoritative teachings of that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself..." This is something that your favored man-made sect could never claim.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

I've spent hours with Jehovah Witnesses and the rcc is no different. They are told what the bible says and can't question it because they can't understand if for themselves.

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

We should compare what we are taught with scripture because it's our soul on the line at judgment.

How does one become a catholic?
 

Cruciform

New member
You can spin it how you like...
No "spin," just historical fact. However, you need to tell yourself that it's nothing but spin in order to cling to the anti-Catholic opinions of men that you've been fed by your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. To this point, you simply don't want to know the truth badly enough. I can relate, since I've been there myself.

...but Rome sent out people to sell indulgences to acquire wealth. They used their religious authority for evil, plan and simple.
Already decisively answered in a previous post above.

The history of the rcc is riddled with skeletons and down right atrocities and they are continuing to pile up.
More unsubstantiated rhetoric. If your favored man-made sect ever manages to provide actual proof for any of its anti-Catholic claims, be sure to let me know.



Gaudium deveritate,

Cruciform
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turbosixx

New member
No "spin," just historical fact. However, you need to tell yourself that it's nothing but spin in order to cling to the anti-Catholic opinions of men that you've been fed by your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. To this point, you simply don't want to know the truth badly enough. I can relate, since I've been there myself.


Already decisively answered in a previous post above.


More unsubstantiated rhetoric. If your favored man-made sect ever manages to provide actual proof for any of its anti-Catholic claims, be sure to let me know.



Gaudium deveritate,

Cruciform
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I'm not anti-cahtolic, I'm pro-Christian. I disagree with any sect that seeks to divide Christ's church. That's why we are either Christian or we are not. There is no hyphenation in Christ's body.
 

Cruciform

New member
They are told what the bible says and can't question it...
And yet, the very same applies to you regarding your favored recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect, though you can't yet acknowledge that fact.

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
In fact, the Bereans in no way held to sola scriptura, which did not even exist until Protestant schismatics invented it during the 16th-century so-called "reformation." See this.

We should compare what we are taught with scripture...
...with whose infallibly authoritative interpretations of Scripture? Not yours, since you've already acknowledged that your personal interpretations are not infallible, and so are therefore not authoritative. And not those of your favored recently-invented, man-made sect, since its non-authoritative opinions are nothing more than the mere traditions of men. Whose, then?

How does one become a Catholic?
Addressed here.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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Cruciform

New member
I'm not anti-catholic, I'm pro-Christian.
You are opposed to the Catholic Church and her authoritative teachings. In this sense, you are indeed anti-Catholic.

I disagree with any sect that seeks to divide Christ's church.
Then you should definitely disagree with your own man-invented "Church of Christ" sect, since it is merely one of the 50,000+ competing and contradictory recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sects in existence today, with more "dividing Christ's church" every week.



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turbosixx

New member
Cruciform;4396545 Then you should definitely disagree with your own man-invented "Church of Christ" [B said:
sect[/B], since it is merely one of the 50,000+ competing and contradictory recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sects in existence today, with more "dividing Christ's church" every week.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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How can I disagree with truth. I have believed the gospel and been baptized into Christ. Mark 16:16

I worship with the saints in a building with HIS name on it and a name that can be found in the bible. I follow only the bible, nothing added nothing taken away. I am a Christian, no hyphenation. How am I not a member of HIS church, how am I dividing.
 

Cruciform

New member
For turbosixx:


HOW OLD IS YOUR "CHURCH"?

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1608.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you are a member of the Churches of Christ your church began near the beginning of the 19th century in New England. Abner Jones, Barton Stone and Alexander Campbell were some of the most well known originators of your religion.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as "Church of the "Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovahs Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.

If you are Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
 

Cruciform

New member
How can I disagree with truth.
Bitter water doesn't pour from a pure well. Likewise, true doctrine does not come from a merely man-made sect which cannot demonstrate itself to be that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself, and against which he declared that the powers of death would never prevail (Mt. 16:18; 1 Tim. 3:15). Again, you have nothing but the mere opinions (traditions) of men.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

turbosixx

New member
For turbosixx:


HOW OLD IS YOUR "CHURCH"?

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1608.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you are a member of the Churches of Christ your church began near the beginning of the 19th century in New England. Abner Jones, Barton Stone and Alexander Campbell were some of the most well known originators of your religion.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as "Church of the "Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovahs Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.

If you are Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

Church of Christ was founded 33 AD. It's even referenced in scripture. Rom. 16:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss.
All the churches of Christ send greetings.


When we obey the gospel we are added to HIS church, the one he purchased with his blood.

The way to become a catholic is not in accordance with scripture.
Acts 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

I fail to see the added steps of the rcc. So when one follows the rcc way, they are not added to the body of Christ but to the rcc.
 

turbosixx

New member
Again, you have nothing but the mere opinions (traditions) of men.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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This is where you are wrong, you are following men, not me.

The only man I follow is Christ.

You follow men.

pope-timor.jpg
 

Cruciform

New member
Church of Christ was founded 33 AD. It's even referenced in scripture. Rom. 16:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss.
All the churches of Christ send greetings.
:darwinsm:... Common, really? Just because some guys in the 19th century decided to name their sect "Church of Christ" certainly doesn't mean that their man-made sect actually IS that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D. And, as the chart I posted demonstrates, your preferred sect is anything but.

When we obey the gospel we are added to HIS church, the one he purchased with his blood.
As I acknowledged, if you truly believe in Jesus and have been properly baptized, you are placed in a certain relationship with the Catholic Church and, by that means, may be called a "Christian" and may in the end be saved (Catechism of the Catholic Church, Par. 838). That being said, the Catechism also issues this sober warning:
"Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it" (par. 846).
The way to become a catholic is not in accordance with scripture.
Acts 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

They were baptized in Christ's one historic Church, just as people are today baptized in Christ's one historic Catholic Church. Same Church. In any case, I've already discussed the development and growth of Christ's one historic Church over the past two millennia.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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Cruciform

New member
This is where you are wrong, you are following men, not me.
Already categorically refuted (Post #225).

The only man I follow is Christ. You follow men.
You follow the mere interpretations and opinions of the human teachers in your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. Your False Dilemma Fallacy, however, is noted.



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Cruciform
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