Catholics Should Believe Their First Pope

[RevTestament]

For turbosixx:

HOW OLD IS YOUR "CHURCH"?

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.​

Actually the church of Jesus Christ is as old as Adam, who was the first high priest of God on this earth. Although the priesthood has been restored several times, this did not start a new church, but just continued the revelations of God. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints simply represents the last of these restorations. We hold the same high priesthood as did Melchizedek, which priesthood was lost prior to Christ, and then again when the bishop of Rome decided to claim prominence over the other bishops contrary to biblical precedent, so had to be restored again.

If you are Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

The Jews said the same thing to Christ. The Roman Catholic church was one of the many early churches established throughout the Roman Empire, and kicked out the early Egyptian church, the later Byzantine church, the Eastern Syrian church, etc, largely because they did not accept her alleged authority over them. They too all claim to descend from the original church founded by Christ and the apostles....just sayin'​

 

[Sancocho]

I've spent hours with Jehovah Witnesses and the rcc is no different. They are told what the bible says and can't question it because they can't understand if for themselves.

Interestingly this is what I have seen regarding Protestants. Just sayin bro. Peace.

 

[Sancocho]

The rcc uses things other than the bible to control people and gain wealth and power.

What wealth and power bro??

We Catholics do more for the poor around the world than all other Christian religion combined (by my estimates).

Just because we have some fancy Cardinal in Rome that like to go around in exotic clothes does not reflect the totality of our religious and believers. We are a church of poor people because GOD LOVES THE POOR.

The whole claim about the leaders of the RCC being super rich is an empty myth. On the other hand name one mega pastor in the US and lets talk about the millions they make.

 

[Sancocho]

Actually the church of Jesus Christ is as old as Adam, who was the first high priest of God on this earth. Although the priesthood has been restored several times, this did not start a new church, but just continued the revelations of God. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints simply represents the last of these restorations. We hold the same high priesthood as did Melchizedek, which priesthood was lost prior to Christ, and then again when the bishop of Rome decided to claim prominence over the other bishops contrary to biblical precedent, so had to be restored again.



The Jews said the same thing to Christ. The Roman Catholic church was one of the many early churches established throughout the Roman Empire, and kicked out the early Egyptian church, the later Byzantine church, the Eastern Syrian church, etc, largely because they did not accept her alleged authority over them. They too all claim to descend from the original church founded by Christ and the apostles....just sayin'

When it comes down to details there are never any - just sayin.

 

[Sancocho]

Tell me how the church I attend is not the church that Jesus died for. I need to know.

Jesus died for you bro and you already know it. God's love is so immense for He will not hold it against you nor anyone else if you are part of a church that has an incomplete doctrine. He is looking for people that love Him and their brother.

Nonetheless, if your heart is uneasy you need to investigate the RCC.

 

[RevTestament]

When it comes down to details there are never any - just sayin.

I agree... the details reveal none of the churches retained the original structure and authority of the initial church which is why it had to be restored. The RCC certainly is no exception. This is not necessarily their "fault." They could no more resist becoming the prophesied harlot than the Jews could resist the prophecies that they would reject their Savior. Christ's church had apostles and seventy. Bishops were appointed over the local churches in each city. Bishops were not apostles, and did not hold apostolic authority, much less the authority of Christ over the church. So you are right - the details do not show Christ established the RCC.

 

[Sancocho]

I agree... the details reveal none of the churches retained the original structure and authority of the initial church which is why it had to be restored. The RCC certainly is no exception. This is not necessarily their "fault." They could no more resist becoming the prophesied harlot than the Jews could resist the prophecies that they would reject their Savior. Christ's church had apostles and seventy. Bishops were appointed over the local churches in each city. Bishops were not apostles, and did not hold apostolic authority, much less the authority of Christ over the church. So you are right - the details do not show Christ established the RCC.

Sorry bro I was once a Protestant because I believed the plethora of empty claims but once we got down to the details there were none. If you think you have some real details please post them.

As far as the prostitute, no one promotes child sacrifice, homosexuality and pornography than the US while the RCC and Catholic countries all fight this, so your case has no legs to stand on. Jesus says to judge fellow brothers by their fruits, not ability to quote Scripture, sorry.

 

[RevTestament]

Sorry bro I was once a Protestant because I believed the plethora of empty claims but once we got down to the details there were none. If you think you have some real details please post them.

I just did. Are scriptural details not authoritative to you?

Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

Early church history also reveals there were a seventy who assisted the apostles. Where are these in the RCC? Where is the RCC curia in Christ's church? I find it in the Roman senate which opposed Christ - not in his church.
Perhaps you ought to take a closer look at the RCC, and the many changes it instituted while all the time alleging to be the church established by Christ. What happened to the baptismal font it installed in the Lateran? Do you believe the apostles baptized with holy salted water? Where did that practice come from? You do realize the Roman pagans used salted water in their "holy" rites don't you?

As far as the prostitute, no one promotes child sacrifice, homosexuality and pornography than the US while the RCC and Catholic countries all fight this, so your case has no legs to stand on. Jesus says to judge fellow brothers by their fruits, not ability to quote Scripture, sorry.

I will take that as a complement, but I have learned the scriptures thoroughly over many years. I offer what I see freely.
While I agree with you that the US has become a beast, she is not the prophesied woman. Countries or ruling governments are beasts. She is the second prophesied beast of Revelation which rises out of the wilderness and brings about the image of the beast.
But as for fruits, the RCC has plenty of rotten ones the latest of which were the many cases of molestation she allowed by allowing homosexual priests, and then covering them up. The past is strewn with the bodies of Christ's followers who attempted to translate the scriptures or speak out against the false teachings of the RCC, and so were persecuted and killed by "one historic, true church." The Protestants were mostly Teutonic tribes who were led astray by the RCC in the first place, so it is her fault they did not have the truth and now wander about haphazardly. But they can now live in the truth.

Revelation 17:17

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

 

[Sancocho]

I just did. Are scriptural details not authoritative to you?

Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

Early church history also reveals there were a seventy who assisted the apostles. Where are these in the RCC? Where is the RCC curia in Christ's church? I find it in the Roman senate which opposed Christ - not in his church.
Perhaps you ought to take a closer look at the RCC, and the many changes it instituted while all the time alleging to be the church established by Christ. What happened to the baptismal font it installed in the Lateran? Do you believe the apostles baptized with holy salted water? Where did that practice come from? You do realize the Roman pagans used salted water in their "holy" rites don't you?


I will take that as a complement, but I have learned the scriptures thoroughly over many years. I offer what I see freely.
While I agree with you that the US has become a beast, she is not the prophesied woman. Countries or ruling governments are beasts. She is the second prophesied beast of Revelation which rises out of the wilderness and brings about the image of the beast.
But as for fruits, the RCC has plenty of rotten ones the latest of which were the many cases of molestation she allowed by allowing homosexual priests, and then covering them up. The past is strewn with the bodies of Christ's followers who attempted to translate the scriptures or speak out against the false teachings of the RCC, and so were persecuted and killed by "one historic, true church." The Protestants were mostly Teutonic tribes who were led astray by the RCC in the first place, so it is her fault they did not have the truth and now wander about haphazardly. But they can now live in the truth.

Revelation 17:17

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Mere ability to quote Scripture does not impress me like it did before.

Protestant nations are the source of everything God abhors, child sacrifice, pornography, homosexuality.

Catholic nations promote the Gospel.

"they will be known by their fruit"

 

[RevTestament]

Mere ability to quote Scripture does not impress me like it did before.

I am not trying to "impress" you. I merely show the application of scripture. I'll let the spirit do the impressing as to whether it is true or not.

Protestant nations are the source of everything God abhors, child sacrifice, pornography, homosexuality.

Well, that is not quite true now is it? Actually, the Bible makes it clear that Sodom and Gomorrha were pretty darn bad, and I don't think they were "Protestant nations." Homosexuality was obviously around at the time of Moses since it is condemned in the Torah, and can hardly be blamed on the Protestant nations - nor can Prostitution. Abortion is a new creature created by the desire of industrialized nations to live comfortably and not be "inconvenienced." It is heavily present in Russia and China without the influence of "Protestantism." Indeed the opposite - a complete rejection of Christianity by "communists." So it is more a function of modern selfishness of more affluent nations rather than a product of "Protestantism."

Catholic nations promote the Gospel.

I have seen many countries which allegedly became Catholic which retain many pagan beliefs and practices. An example is in "Catholic" Latin America, which continues to hold many traditional pagan beliefs, and therefore has never been converted to Christ. Miners still have their pagan idol god in the mines which they pay homage to in order to appease the god of the mountain, etc.
So how much these nations really "promote the gospel" is totally up for grabs.
Let's take a look at Brazil which is traditionally a Catholic country.
"Every year an estimated 1.4 million Brazilian girls and women take the law into their hands, and often put their health at risk, to terminate their pregnancies. This gives Brazil an abortion rate much higher than that of the United States, even though one country allows the procedure and the other all but bans it." So I suppose you are going to blame this on Protestantism too?

"they will be known by their fruit"

That pertains to alleged prophets including the Roman pontiff.
May I suggest you do so and see how the Roman pontiff stacks up over the centuries?

 

[Sancocho]

I am not trying to "impress" you. I merely show the application of scripture. I'll let the spirit do the impressing as to whether it is true or not.

You make a simple topic complicated. That was never Jesus way. Sory.

Well, that is not quite true now is it? Actually, the Bible makes it clear that Sodom and Gomorrha were pretty darn bad, and I don't think they were "Protestant nations." Homosexuality was obviously around at the time of Moses since it is condemned in the Torah, and can hardly be blamed on the Protestant nations - nor can Prostitution. Abortion is a new creature created by the desire of industrialized nations to live comfortably and not be "inconvenienced." It is heavily present in Russia and China without the influence of "Protestantism." Indeed the opposite - a complete rejection of Christianity by "communists." So it is more a function of modern selfishness of more affluent nations rather than a product of "Protestantism."

I never stated Protestantism created abortion nor homosexuality.

I said Protestant countries PROMOTE both more than anyone else, specifically the US and Europe.

I have seen many countries which allegedly became Catholic which retain many pagan beliefs and practices. An example is in "Catholic" Latin America, which continues to hold many traditional pagan beliefs, and therefore has never been converted to Christ. Miners still have their pagan idol god in the mines which they pay homage to in order to appease the god of the mountain, etc.
So how much these nations really "promote the gospel" is totally up for grabs.
Let's take a look at Brazil which is traditionally a Catholic country.
"Every year an estimated 1.4 million Brazilian girls and women take the law into their hands, and often put their health at risk, to terminate their pregnancies. This gives Brazil an abortion rate much higher than that of the United States, even though one country allows the procedure and the other all but bans it." So I suppose you are going to blame this on Protestantism too?
That pertains to alleged prophets including the Roman pontiff.
May I suggest you do so and see how the Roman pontiff stacks up over the centuries?

With all due respect your anecdotal evidence never trumps real statistics. The homicide rate in Europe and the US is that of a major war, 10 times more than Latin America. Furthermore, homosexuality is not generally accepted and not promoted either.

As far as the quote about abortion in Brazil, might that per chance be from the propaganda arm of Planned Parenthood that sells babies parts after cutting them up into pieces so they can increase their bottom line already floated by a half a billion dollars a year? They are also looking to expand to new markets in Latina America because there is a lot of money to be made from murdering children.

Latin Americas social indicators are real Christian fruit, not like the ones in the US and Europe promoted to us by the godless UN. There is a reason for that and it is not from God either.

 

[RevTestament]

You make a simple topic complicated. That was never Jesus way. Sory.

It wasn't?
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

I never stated Protestantism created abortion nor homosexuality.

I said Protestant countries PROMOTE both more than anyone else, specifically the US and Europe.

In my quote of you you said they are "the source" of these things, and I showed otherwise. You are not teaching fact but merely promoting your opinion.

With all due respect your anecdotal evidence never trumps real statistics. The homicide rate in Europe and the US is that of a major war, 10 times more than Latin America. Furthermore, homosexuality is not generally accepted and not promoted either.

If by "homicide rate" you mean abortion, I gave you facts that abortion per capita is higher in a "Catholic" country than the US.

As far as the quote about abortion in Brazil, might that per chance be from the propaganda arm of Planned Parenthood that sells babies parts after cutting them up into pieces so they can increase their bottom line already floated by a half a billion dollars a year? They are also looking to expand to new markets in Latina America because there is a lot of money to be made from murdering children.

No, actually it is from an old Chicago Tribune story:
November 01, 2006|By Colin McMahon | Colin McMahon,CHICAGO TRIBUNE

Just do an internet search. The info is there for all to see.

Latin Americas social indicators are real Christian fruit, not like the ones in the US and Europe promoted to us by the godless UN. There is a reason for that and it is not from God either.

I am not here to necessarily defend Protestantism, but I think it apparent that you are playing fast and loose with the facts, and so am merely pointing out that you should be accountable. This is the day of evil spoken of by our Lord, so yes there is much evil in the world, and darkness reigns. But as in the days of Noah, so shall the end be.

 

[Sancocho]

It wasn't?
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

In my quote of you you said they are "the source" of these things, and I showed otherwise. You are not teaching fact but merely promoting your opinion.

If by "homicide rate" you mean abortion, I gave you facts that abortion per capita is higher in a "Catholic" country than the US.


No, actually it is from an old Chicago Tribune story:
November 01, 2006|By Colin McMahon | Colin McMahon,CHICAGO TRIBUNE

Just do an internet search. The info is there for all to see.

I am not here to necessarily defend Protestantism, but I think it apparent that you are playing fast and loose with the facts, and so am merely pointing out that you should be accountable. This is the day of evil spoken of by our Lord, so yes there is much evil in the world, and darkness reigns. But as in the days of Noah, so shall the end be.

The claim is from the Guttmacher Institute, the propaganda arm of the company that cuts children up for profit and sells their body parts. They lied to have abortion legalized in the US and are doing their best to lie to have it legalized in Latin America, where it is mostly illegal. Those are the facts.

The US and Europe kill their children at rates only seen during major wars and not only allows homosexual marriage they indoctrinate children. America is the number one source of pornography in the world. Worse is the US is promoting this garbage in real Christian countries.

"By their fruits they are known".

 

[meshak]

I said Protestant countries PROMOTE both more than anyone else, specifically the US and Europe.

You don't seem to realize that Mexico and Philippine are Catholic countries. Are they godly nation? I don't think so.

It is filled with criminals. It is dangerous place to visit.

But I am not for protestants. I don't believe they are godly Christians either.

 

[RevTestament]

The claim is from the Guttmacher Institute, the propaganda arm of the company that cuts children up for profit and sells their body parts. They lied to have abortion legalized in the US and are doing their best to lie to have it legalized in Latin America, where it is mostly illegal. Those are the facts.

Um. No they are not. The only source mentioned in the article was a Catholic one:

Catholics for the Right to Choose, a group working to have abortion de-criminalized, estimates that each year in Brazil 250,000 women suffer health complications from secret abortions. Across Latin America, abortion-rights groups attribute 10,000 deaths a year to unsafe abortion.

The US and Europe kill their children at rates only seen during major wars and not only allows homosexual marriage they indoctrinate children. America is the number one source of pornography in the world. Worse is the US is promoting this garbage in real Christian countries.

Again, baseless accusations by yourself. While I am not defending American policy one can hardly call Pres Obama, for example, a "Protestant."

 

[Sancocho]

You don't seem to realize that Mexico and Philippine are Catholic countries. Are they godly nation? I don't think so.

It is filled with criminals. It is dangerous place to visit.

But I am not for protestants. I don't believe they are godly Christians either.

There are many other Catholic countries, especially in Latin America.

The US and Europe are very dangerous to visit if you haven't been born, especially if you are a minority. In fact only half of the blacks that are conceived make it out of the womb without being chopped up in the US.

 

[Sancocho]

Um. No they are not. The only source mentioned in the article was a Catholic one:




Again, baseless accusations by yourself. While I am not defending American policy one can hardly call Pres Obama, for example, a "Protestant."

The article does not have a reference but anyone that has been part of the pro life movement and investigation knows where the number comes from. You are actually using the same diabolical trick that Planned Parenthood uses here in Latina America so they can have abortion legalized so they can cut children up and sell their body parts.

America's fruits are rotten. Conspicuously it is a mostly Protestant nation, or used to be. One thing for sure it has never been Catholic so that is why children are so easily killed.

 

[RevTestament]

The US and Europe are very dangerous to visit if you haven't been born, especially if you are a minority. In fact only half of the blacks that are conceived make it out of the womb without being chopped up in the US.

Oh my, the evil white Protestants are forcing black mothers to get their babies chopped up!
You do know how ridiculous this sounds?
In the US about 1.1 million abortions were performed in 2011, at a rate of 16.9 abortions for every 1,000 women of childbearing age, down from a peak of 29.3 per 1,000 in 1981.
The vast majority of these were among blacks and Catholic minority hispanics rather than white Protestants, so again your little blame game falls flat.
I was raised Protestant, and the idea of abortion in my Protestant church was basically abhorrent. When I converted to the non "Protestant" LDS church, the idea of abortion was still abhorrent, and basically remains that way except in cases of endangering the mother's life or perhaps mental well being such as in cases of rape in which case the church believes the considerate prayer of the mother can be considered.
Nor does the Church of Jesus Christ take a stance against contraception.
Now in Europe I'm sure this is different, but that is not the US so it is rather unfair of you to blame all these evils on "Protestants" as you repeatedly try to do - especially when the statistics simply do not support your egregious generalizations.

 

[RevTestament]

The article does not have a reference but anyone that has been part of the pro life movement and investigation knows where the number comes from. You are actually using the same diabolical trick that Planned Parenthood uses here in Latina America so they can have abortion legalized so they can cut children up and sell their body parts.

I'm not doing any "trick" but am simply quoting a 10 year old article bud. I really don't know where they got their information except for the one Catholic source they mentioned. Nor am I generally "pro-choice" with the possible exceptions noted above. I do not agree with abortionists that a fetus has no rights under the law, and I agree that selling aborted baby parts as Planned Parenthood is doing is despicable.

America's fruits are rotten. Conspicuously it is a mostly Protestant nation, or used to be. One thing for sure it has never been Catholic so that is why children are so easily killed.

Again, statistics don't support your innuendo that Protestants are to blame. I believe statistics will show that most Republicans are Protestant and are pro-life. You are simply making unfounded innuendos and conclusions. Both non-Protestant and even Catholic nations have substantial abortion rates showing it is not strictly a "Protestant" evil as you are tying to suggest.

 

[turbosixx]

Jesus died for you bro and you already know it. God's love is so immense for He will not hold it against you nor anyone else if you are part of a church that has an incomplete doctrine. He is looking for people that love Him and their brother.

Nonetheless, if your heart is uneasy you need to investigate the RCC.

My heart is far from uneasy, but I do want to challenge what I understand to be truth. When I compare what I see in scripture and the rcc, they don't look the same. I'm just trying to challenge others version of truth as well.

As far as incomplete doctrine, what is it that is not in the canon that I NEED to adhere to? The bible is either sufficient or insufficient.