Catholics Should Believe Their First Pope

turbosixx

New member
You follow the mere interpretations and opinions of the human teachers
Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

If you believe what you are telling me, then how do YOU know. You can't know you are following truth because you can't understand the bible to determine if what these men are telling you is truth. You therefore, are putting your trust and faith in men. They will not be able to answer for you on judgment day, THEN you will have to answer for yourself.
 
Last edited:

turbosixx

New member
They were baptized in Christ's one historic Church, just as people are today baptized in Christ's one historic Catholic Church. Same Church. In any case, I've already discussed the development and growth of Christ's one historic Church over the past two millennia.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

The steps these people took in Acts to be added are NOT THE SAME steps that the rcc teach and practice. It has been added to by men and changed by men. People who follow the steps in scripture are added to Christ's church. People who follow rcc steps are added to the catholic church. It can't be different and be the same.
 

turbosixx

New member
What wealth and power bro??

We Catholics do more for the poor around the world than all other Christian religion combined (by my estimates).

Just because we have some fancy Cardinal in Rome that like to go around in exotic clothes does not reflect the totality of our religious and believers. We are a church of poor people because GOD LOVES THE POOR.

The whole claim about the leaders of the RCC being super rich is an empty myth. On the other hand name one mega pastor in the US and lets talk about the millions they make.

I'm not saying the rcc hasn't helped the poor but they help themselves first.

Here is a recent headline: How the ‘Bishop of Bling’ spent $43 million renovating this house

Where did this guy get this kind of money?

This is one recent thing that has come out. The rcc is great at keeping secrets and hiding skeletons.
 
Last edited:

Sancocho

New member
Oh my, the evil white Protestants are forcing black mothers to get their babies chopped up!
You do know how ridiculous this sounds?
In the US about 1.1 million abortions were performed in 2011, at a rate of 16.9 abortions for every 1,000 women of childbearing age, down from a peak of 29.3 per 1,000 in 1981.
The vast majority of these were among blacks and Catholic minority hispanics rather than white Protestants, so again your little blame game falls flat.
I was raised Protestant, and the idea of abortion in my Protestant church was basically abhorrent. When I converted to the non "Protestant" LDS church, the idea of abortion was still abhorrent, and basically remains that way except in cases of endangering the mother's life or perhaps mental well being such as in cases of rape in which case the church believes the considerate prayer of the mother can be considered.
Nor does the Church of Jesus Christ take a stance against contraception.
Now in Europe I'm sure this is different, but that is not the US so it is rather unfair of you to blame all these evils on "Protestants" as you repeatedly try to do - especially when the statistics simply do not support your egregious generalizations.

You statistics do not support your claim that Protestant nations don't kill their children less than Catholic one but do point out that minorities are being targeted, especially young girls who are told the lie that they do not have a living child inside them.
 

Sancocho

New member
I'm not doing any "trick" but am simply quoting a 10 year old article bud. I really don't know where they got their information except for the one Catholic source they mentioned. Nor am I generally "pro-choice" with the possible exceptions noted above. I do not agree with abortionists that a fetus has no rights under the law, and I agree that selling aborted baby parts as Planned Parenthood is doing is despicable.


Again, statistics don't support your innuendo that Protestants are to blame. I believe statistics will show that most Republicans are Protestant and are pro-life. You are simply making unfounded innuendos and conclusions. Both non-Protestant and even Catholic nations have substantial abortion rates showing it is not strictly a "Protestant" evil as you are tying to suggest.

So what you are trying to tell me is if you see a claim in print it must somehow be correct??

With all due respect I do research for a living. Your claim is not valid without a reference. I know where the numbers come from and have told you 2 times already and yet you persist playing with the devil. In fact that is one of the reasons America has fallen so hard, Protestants desire to discredit Catholics or even other Protestants who do not share the same doctrine overwhelms their love of Christ.
 
Last edited:

Sancocho

New member
My heart is far from uneasy, but I do want to challenge what I understand to be truth. When I compare what I see in scripture and the rcc, they don't look the same. I'm just trying to challenge others version of truth as well.

As far as incomplete doctrine, what is it that is not in the canon that I NEED to adhere to? The bible is either sufficient or insufficient.

Please remember bro the Bible was not readily available in complete form for centuries. I know there are a lot of claims but conspicuously there is no proof only conjecture. The canon (doctrine) was developed along with the Bible from the beginning. As someone who became Protestant because of such claims I investigated any and all supposed claims about doctrine against the Bible and understanding the "spirit" or intention of said and it has never failed the test. And why would it? It has never been separate from the Bible nor the community that wrote it.
 

turbosixx

New member
Please remember bro the Bible was not readily available in complete form for centuries. I know there are a lot of claims but conspicuously there is no proof only conjecture. The canon (doctrine) was developed along with the Bible from the beginning. As someone who became Protestant because of such claims I investigated any and all supposed claims about doctrine against the Bible and understanding the "spirit" or intention of said and it has never failed the test. And why would it? It has never been separate from the Bible nor the community that wrote it.

That is what I see. Man feels they are sticking to the spirit or intention but in actuality they are perverted the truth.


Matt. 15:3 And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother,' and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother is to be put to death.' 5 But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God," 6 he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
 

Sancocho

New member
That is what I see. Man feels they are sticking to the spirit or intention but in actuality they are perverted the truth.


Matt. 15:3 And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother,' and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother is to be put to death.' 5 But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God," 6 he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

I have been on both sides of the fence and can say with confidence the RCC has been the most faithful to the Gospel that we wrote.
 

turbosixx

New member
I have been on both sides of the fence and can say with confidence the RCC has been the most faithful to the Gospel that we wrote.

I haven't been on the other side, but what I have seen is enough to know the rcc is not measuring up to scripture. Here is one example of what I see.

Jesus taught he apostle to preach the gospel and baptize the believers. We see them do exactly that.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.

Acts 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.


It's easy to see and understand that is how one is added to the body of Christ, baptize the believers.

Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

The rcc baptizes infants who are incapable of being believers.

What am I to believe?
 

RevTestament

New member
You statistics do not support your claim that Protestant nations don't kill their children less than Catholic one but do point out that minorities are being targeted, especially young girls who are told the lie that they do not have a living child inside them.
At least I gave some statistics. You have given zilch, nada my friend - except for your unfounded opinion, which I have provided at least some statistics to show are unfounded. I don't share your opinion that minorities are being especially "targeted." Such is especially not so in Europe. I do happen to dislike the sex ed program in public schools and believe that the epidemic of unwed mothers and abortions began and coincided with sex ed in the schools. But I don't believe this was a result of "Protestant" intervention either. I believe the sex ed program was essentially pushed through by non-Protestant liberals and feminists who infiltrated the education dept. Most Protestants reacted negatively to the sex ed program. The point being that as a Christian parent I taught my own children the birds and the bees, and why they should abstain from sex until they get married. Without such guidance it is apparent that minority children were more influenced by the sex education program which offered no moral or ethical teaching along with all their hormone-promoting talk of intercourse and pictures. Sadly, in this sense I am forced to agree with you, but the children in public schools whether they be Protestant or otherwise were all equally subjected to this sex education without a moral compass, so how do you believe the minorities are "targeted?"
Your bald-faced assertions trying to blame Protestants for the ills of the world do not add up.
It is widely accepted there is a lot of abortion in Brazil, but it is illegal there so no official statistics are kept. It doesn't matter whose statistics you rely on, they are going to be an estimate. But my sister-in-law from Brazil knows about it. The "abortion pill" is largely relied upon there.
 

RevTestament

New member
So what you are trying to tell me is if you see a claim in print it must somehow be correct??

With all due respect I do research for a living. Your claim is not valid without a reference.
I gave a reference which you did not care for, and instead accused me of lying or trying to trick you.
I know where the numbers come from and have told you 2 times already and yet you persist playing with the devil. In fact that is one of the reasons America has fallen so hard, Protestants desire to discredit Catholics or even other Protestants who do not share the same doctrine overwhelms their love of Christ.
I think you have a deep religious bias which you refuse to give up. This insistence of yours that abortion statistics all seem to come from the Guttmacher Institute is simply not valid.
Here is another:
(CNSNews.com) – In 2012, there were more black babies killed by abortion (31,328) in New York City than were born there (24,758), and the black children killed comprised 42.4% of the total number of abortions in the Big Apple, according to a report by the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene.
For Hispanic women, there were 22,917 abortions in New York City in 2012, which is 31% of the total abortions.

Black and Hispanic abortions combined, 54,245 babies, is 73% of the total abortions in the Big Apple in 2012.
The report is entitled, Summary of Vital Statistics 2012 The City of New York, Pregnancy Outcomes, and was prepared by the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, Office of Vital Statistics.
The CDC also does abortion statistics which are independent of Planned Parenthood.
None of them support your insistence that Protestants are leading the charge for abortion. I will also remind you that abortion in Russia and China is also quite high, and there has nothing to do with Protestantism but rather "Communism."
 

Cruciform

New member
Actually the Church of Jesus Christ is as old as Adam...
Yes---however the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" is not. Rather, it was invented by Joseph Smith less than 200 years ago.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints simply represents the last of these restorations.
No supposed "Great Apostasy" has ever occurred in Christ's one historic Church---nor could it---unless Jesus Christ himself is a liar (Mt. 16:18). And, thus, no such "restorations" have ever been required. This is perhaps the fatal flaw in the Mormon belief system, though there are certainly many others as well.

See also, this and this.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

RevTestament

New member
Yes---however the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" is not. Rather, it was invented by Joseph Smith less than 200 years ago.

The Lord has had to restore His priesthood several times to the earth, and had to one more time in order that His word might be fulfilled as pointed out in Acts that all things would be restored before Christ's return.

No supposed "Great Apostasy" has ever occurred in Christ's one historic Church---nor could it---unless Jesus Christ himself is a liar (Mt. 16:18). And, thus, no such "restorations" have ever been required. This is perhaps the fatal flaw in the Mormon belief system, though there are certainly many others as well.
Christ's words didn't fail. The stone of revelation has been fulfilled even by apostasy in his own church on the earth which He Himself prophesied would occur in the darkness in which no man could work. Peter is not the only rock of revelation the Lord has my friend, but your "pope" is not one, nor is he among the last of the 144,000 prophets to be sealed by the end of the sixth seal in Revelation 7.
 

Cruciform

New member
The Lord has had to restore His priesthood several times to the earth...
Already categorically refuted in Post #272 above.

Christ's words didn't fail. The stone of revelation has been fulfilled even by apostasy in his own church on the earth...
Already decisively answered in a previous post above. I recommend a careful and thorough study of this, this, this, this, and this. You may want to make copies to consider at your own pace. Be well.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

RevTestament

New member
QUESTION: Would the Spirit ever affirm or endorse a human interpretation of Scripture that failed to comport with the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Church, yes or no?​
1. It depends which spirit is doing the affirming.
I pray in secret to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ.
2. And yes, the Holy Spirit will affirm the truth, and not necessarily interpretations made by churches. He will also affirm the will of the Lord even though that does not necessarily comport with the ideas of men.
 

RevTestament

New member

Already decisively answered in a previous post above. I recommend a careful and thorough study of this, this, this, this, and this. You may want to make copies to consider at your own pace. Be well.
Making copies would be a complete waste of my time, as those contain virtually nothing about what being the rock meant. The Lord is the rock of our salvation - why? Why is Jesus the chief cornerstone? I proffer because He is steadfast and unchanging in His revelation to us, and changes not in His righteousness. As the chief cornerstone Jesus was the revelation of the Father to us. Thus, what Jesus is telling Peter is that you are going to be of that rock and follow me to the cross. That is the stone on which the kingdom will be built - not your earthly church - sorry. :)
 

Cruciform

New member
1. It depends which spirit is doing the affirming.
I assumed you were referring to the Holy Spirit of the New Testament.

2. And yes, the Holy Spirit will affirm the truth, and not necessarily interpretations made by churches.
  • Does that, then, include the LDS church?
  • Also, does that include the documents of the New Testament, which are themselves "interpretations made by a Church"?
He will also affirm the will of the Lord even though that does not necessarily comport with the ideas of men.
How, exactly, would He do this...?



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

Dona Bate

New member
Making copies would be a complete waste of my time,....
Course it would be! Why?....The book of Mormon makes THIS blasphemous statement against the Holy Bible.

From the introduction of the Book of Mormon:
"The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible... ...and contains, as does the Bible, the fulness of the everlasting gospel."...
"Concerning this record the*Prophet Joseph Smith*said: "I told the brethren that the BOOK OF MORMON WAS THE MOST CORRECT OF ANY BOOK ON EARTH, AND THE KEYSTONE OF OUR RELIGION, AND A MAN WOULD GET NEARER TO GOD BY ABIDING BY ITS PRECEPTS, THAN ANY OTHER BOOK."

The BOM clearly elevates itself above the Bible.

How can the LDS Church even use the Bible at all if they teach it is inferior to the Book of Mormon?


God Bless!
 

Cruciform

New member
Making copies would be a complete waste of my time, as those contain virtually nothing about what being the rock meant.
Your tacit claim to know and comprehend the content of my posted sources without having read them is noted, and rejected as patented nonsense. Here you merely beg the question in favor of your present bias toward the Mormon belief system. To paraphrase C.S. Lewis: "A Mormon has to be very careful of what he reads." Your deliberate avoidance of relevant material is noted, as is the lack of intellectual integrity that stands behind it.

...what Jesus is telling Peter is that you are going to be of that rock and follow me to the cross.
Categorically refuted here, here, here, here, and here.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
Top