ECT Catalog of Pentecostal scandals

[musterion]

From its beginning at Asuza, literally anything can be defended as "a new move of the Spirit." As such, those who think that way will not heed correction and reproof from that "dusty, dry old wineskin."

 

[Cross Reference]

Pentecostal and or Charismatic are the polar opposite of being committed to scriptural truth.

Since when is any form of Mysticism (the supposed "divine" via the senses, etc.) related in any way, shape, or form to "scriptural truth"?

It matters not how "committed" any of them are if they are off-base if they "walk...by sight."

Jesus lived His life by the written word of God. Care to explain His actions that by faith His allegiance was established in Him as an example for us who believe for His sonship in the Father, to follow?

. . . . . . . . John 5:20; 14:12

 

[musterion]

And many Pentecostals would reject most (if not all) of the people on the list as being those to avoid. Cloud claims a charitable attitude towards Pentecostals and fails to make a clear distinction between Pentecostalism and the Charismatic circus that has grabbed most of the attention.

Every extreme seen in modern Charismaticism is also recorded during Pentecostalism's earliest years going right back to the riotous circus that was Asuza Street.

 

[Cross Reference]

Every extreme seen in modern Charismaticism is also recorded during Pentecostalism's earliest years going right back to the riotous circus that was Asuza Street.

I take it, you where there?

 

[musterion]

I take it, you where there?

 

[Cross Reference]

I'll take that as being NO, you weren't.

So what can you say for sure that would lend credibility for what you are spouting as an accurate summation of what was experienced that day on Azuza street that turned the church right-side up to make it ready for what was to come that we are presently just beginning to witness?

 

[lifeisgood]

You can't restore the unrepentant and scandal-ridden Pentecostals are notoriously unrepentant. Swaggart appeared to, but only after the story broke and he'd told the AoG to pound sand. Jim Bakker crawled under a courtroom table and screamed about demons. Paul Crouch relished the idea of shooting critics who he said were blocking God's bridges.

God will accept and continue using any and ALL who He has really called, have failed, and they have really REPENTED. Just like He did with David, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Noah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, etc., etc., etc.

They were truly called, truly fell, and truly REPENTED and God continued to use them, and as many times and they fell, for example, David, he kept on going back to God and God kept on forgiving him and continue using him.

So, yes, God can save even a truly repentant Pentecostal, just like he has always forgiven all of us who truly repent.

May we tread lightly on judging the 'failures' of others so that per adventure, we fall on the same trap, and others keep on telling us that we have not repented enough as being implied here.

 

[musterion]

God will accept and continue using any and ALL who He has really called, have failed, and they have really REPENTED. Just like He did with David, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Noah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, etc., etc., etc.

They were truly called, truly fell, and truly REPENTED and God continued to use them, and as many times and they fell, for example, David, he kept on going back to God and God kept on forgiving him and continue using him.

So, yes, God can save even a truly repentant Pentecostal, just like he has always forgiven all of us who truly repent.

May we tread lightly on judging the 'failures' of others so that per adventure, we fall on the same trap, and others keep on telling us that we have not repented enough as being implied here.

You're missing the point.

 

[lifeisgood]

You're missing the point.

I don't think so, for I believe God looks at individuals and not at denominations and that is my point.

I do not look at the denomination where the brother or sister was caught with the hands in the lump, I look to see if the brother or sister show signs of real repentance, according to God's prescribed order of victory.

We, all of us, have a tendency of being harsher to a fallen brother or sister than to the fallen in the world, for we believe that a brother or sister is supposed to be perfect.

Who can know how much a brother or sister is struggling with something that is so much bigger than they, how much they have cried out to God for help, how many hours studying the word, how many hours praying and ashamed and sorry and hurting, etc. Who can know what a fallen brother or sister goes through. Only the Lord can know that.

I have a Christian friend that says all the time to me, anything you don't want someone else to know, sew your lips, for they will shred you to pieces, I know, she said to me, I told a sister something I was struggling with and all it brought me was condemnation from others, and I had not even done anything wrong. I value her words greatly.

 

[Danoh]

I don't think so, for I believe God looks at individuals and not at denominations and that is my point.

I do not look at the denomination where the brother or sister was caught with the hands in the lump, I look to see if the brother or sister show signs of real repentance, according to God's prescribed order of victory.

We, all of us, have a tendency of being harsher to a fallen brother or sister than to the fallen in the world, for we believe that a brother or sister is supposed to be perfect.

Who can know how much a brother or sister is struggling with something that is so much bigger than they, how much they have cried out to God for help, how many hours studying the word, how many hours praying and ashamed and sorry and hurting, etc. Who can know what a fallen brother or sister goes through. Only the Lord can know that.

I have a Christian friend that says all the time to me, anything you don't want someone else to know, sew your lips, for they will shred you to pieces, I know, she said to me, I told a sister something I was struggling with and all it brought me was condemnation from others, and I had not even done anything wrong. I value her words greatly.

The moment we reveal something about ourselves or others to someone, we stand the chance of having done them the disservice of having tempted them to judge us or another after the flesh.

Our focus would be better focused on that; on "by my revealing this or that to this individual, might I tempt them to fall; are they actually mature enough in their own spiritual understanding to where they will know how to handle such a temptation?"

Its the Grace Life focus that Paul found himself having to put the Galatians on the right path towards, once more.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

...that it is more blessed to GIVE than to receive..."

As he so lovingly, so brokenheartedly, said to the Ephesians as he wondered if he would ever see them again, as into the wilderness of humanity's opposition to the gospel of the grace of God, he headed off once more...

Acts 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

The best to you in this, LG.

 

[Cross Reference]

You're missing the point.

You are missing the point.
It would be easy or us to understand if God did take back His gifts when sin is committed, however, He is no indian giver and any way, everyone will one day give an account of their deeds, right? That said, if you are as those who believe Jesus has forgiven all sins past, present and future, what does Swaggart or anyone else as him, have to worry about? Why accuse when you no doubt, will answer for yourself in that same day of judgment?

 

[musterion]

I don't think so, for I believe God looks at individuals and not at denominations and that is my point.

I do not look at the denomination where the brother or sister was caught with the hands in the lump, I look to see if the brother or sister show signs of real repentance, according to God's prescribed order of victory.

We, all of us, have a tendency of being harsher to a fallen brother or sister than to the fallen in the world, for we believe that a brother or sister is supposed to be perfect.

Who can know how much a brother or sister is struggling with something that is so much bigger than they, how much they have cried out to God for help, how many hours studying the word, how many hours praying and ashamed and sorry and hurting, etc. Who can know what a fallen brother or sister goes through. Only the Lord can know that.

I have a Christian friend that says all the time to me, anything you don't want someone else to know, sew your lips, for they will shred you to pieces, I know, she said to me, I told a sister something I was struggling with and all it brought me was condemnation from others, and I had not even done anything wrong. I value her words greatly.

The OP is about Pentecostal false teachers and false prophets. Period. Whatever Cloud's intent was with the article, that was MY intent. The vibe I keep getting from you is that you seek to mitigate on their behalf. I don't think that is your intent but that's what keeps coming across.

 

[Cross Reference]

The OP is about Pentecostal false teachers and false prophets. Period. Whatever Cloud's intent was with the article, that was MY intent. The vibe I keep getting from you is that you seek to mitigate on their behalf. I don't think that is your intent but that's what keeps coming across.

I would to say that all of the accusers are false teachers. Now how does one go about balancing that out without a personal Pentecost in their life that they be taught by the Holy Spirit? Did not Jesus say that would and must be the only way to sort out the issues?

 

[lifeisgood]

The OP is about Pentecostal false teachers and false prophets. Period. Whatever Cloud's intent was with the article, that was MY intent. The vibe I keep getting from you is that you seek to mitigate on their behalf. I don't think that is your intent but that's what keeps coming across.

What keeps coming across to me, even though I do not think that is your intent, is that there is no hope for them.

 

[musterion]

What keeps coming across to me, even though I do not think that is your intent, is that there is no hope for them.

For whom -- pentecostals in general? Or Gospel-denying false teachers who show zero sign of even thinking they have anything to repent of? Because I'm talking about (b), not (a).

 

[musterion]

False teachers make merchandise of their followers. "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not" (2 Peter 2:1-3). They eye your goods more than your good; and mind more the serving of themselves, than the saving of your souls. So they may have your substance, they care not though Satan has your souls (Rev. 18:11-13). That they may the better pick your purse, they will hold forth such principles as are very indulgent to the flesh. False teachers are the great worshippers of the golden calf (Jer. 6:13).

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

What's frightening, and it's been going on for many years, is the huge following these false gospels receive. It's all about carnality, enriching the flesh, like a sore thumb how the leaders live in obscene luxury. It has always been affirmation there's a false gospel and broad road, as opposed to a true gospel and narrow one, the whole truth not to be found at most mega-churches. A large percentage of the likes of TBN is nothing more than lame show business, of hucksters. They better enjoy it, while they can.

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 7

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

2 Peter 2

1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Prosperity gospel.

"Heresy hunters."

"Quit blocking God's bridges or I'll shoot you if God don't."

"Holy Ghost machine gun...blow your head off."

"Touch not God's anointed!"

Your people came up with all that and made the false teachers who preach it unbelievably rich.

Nobody I ever listened to say those things...why do you not find out what is good and true and true to scripture.

I am Pentecostal because that is what I got when I got saved, not in a meeting but in my own home.

I very soon discovered that most Christians even though they are saved do not have the fullness of the Spirit.

YOU know if you have the fullness of the Holy Spirit or not. Stop making excuses like this preacher or that preacher or tv star. You seek the fullness of the blessing for yourself.

I read C.H.Spurgeon and he mourned in his day that so very few Christians ever enter into the fullness of the Holy Spirit

 

[musterion]

why do you not find out what is good and true and true to scripture.

Okay. Tongues are not a sign for believers, but for unbelievers.

Who is the last non-Christian you spoke to in tongues?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Okay. Tongues are not a sign for believers, but for unbelievers.

Who is the last non-Christian you spoke to in tongues?

Why don't you study the subject for yourself in scripture? instead of squawking out practised lines~?

Find out from Paul if it is right or wrong to desire the gifts? what their proper use is in private devotion and in the assembly.

Whether tongues with interpretation is for a sign or for edification.

Who are you insulting? you think me? you think I will be abashed at your unbelief? your mockery?