ECT Catalog of Pentecostal scandals

[Totton Linnet]

Sloppy workman

 

[Totton Linnet]

Is death burial and resurrection taught in M,M,L,J ?

Of course they are

 

[musterion]

Are some of us saying that if a person in these modern times only has Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, for whatever the reason, cannot find Salvation?

Depends. Do we find there the death (not life, not coming, but the death), AND the burial AND the resurrection of Christ preached as the best news ever for Jews and Gentiles, without distinction and without works? Or are those elements exclusive to Paul's body of revealed doctrine?

 

[musterion]

As I said, my argument is not about where the brethren fell short.

So you agree Cloud's accounts of these peoples' lives is accurate, as far as it goes.

Not sure now which thread it was, but I discussed the Baptist views on the baptism in the Holy Ghost and all THEIR errors in at least one thread on here.

While related, the main issue here is not doctrinal errors as much as moral carnality. That goalpost will not be moved.

Their inexperienced and unlearned input, sorta reminds me of the implausible situation of a plumber trying to tell a surgeon how an operation is to be done....and btw, it shouldn't have been done in the first place, and carries just about as much weight. Peace

You're engaging in what C.S. Lewis termed bulverism: telling someone WHY they're wrong rather than refuting point by point THAT they're wrong.

 

[lifeisgood]

Is death burial and resurrection taught in M,M,L,J ?

I do not think you're saying that if a person, for whatever reason, only has M, M, L, J, that person cannot find Salvation.

I mean, e.g., Abraham did not even have the whole OT, much less even M,M,L,J, not to say anything about Paul's revelation, but he is saved. Is he not?

If I only had M,M,L,J, eventually I would get the DBR of Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary. I mean there's the Holy Spirit to give me understanding. It would take the Holy Spirit a while to make me understand though.

At least that is the way I see it.

I am not knocking Paul, so please do not misunderstand.

 

[lifeisgood]

Depends. Do we find there the death (not life, not coming, but the death), AND the burial AND the resurrection of Christ preached as the best news ever for Jews and Gentiles, without distinction and without works? Or are those elements exclusive to Paul's body of revealed doctrine?

The Lord sketched it, but did not expound on it.

Paul was given the revelation of what the Lord had sketched.

The Holy Spirit would have to help me to see it clearly though.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

An enlightening article. I'm surprised I forgot to include Hobart Freeman, the one guy TBN would never mention, but maybe he'll add him in later.

http://www.wayoflife.org/database/recent_pentecostal_scandals.html

Why are you so concerned musty, after all, when your salvation is secure, you can do anything that you want to. I know this because I learned it from some good Christians on TOL.

 

[Nick M]

So tongues with interpretation is for edifying the body.

1 Corinthians 14

7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? 8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle? 9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

....14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.....

22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers;

Take a seat.

Tongues is speaking into the air if you are not speaking to somebody who speaks that language. Speaking what they know is what is edifying.

 

[Nick M]

1 Corinthians 13

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

 

[patrick jane]

I do not think you're saying that if a person, for whatever reason, only has M, M, L, J, that person cannot find Salvation.

I mean, e.g., Abraham did not even have the whole OT, much less even M,M,L,J, not to say anything about Paul's revelation, but he is saved. Is he not?

If I only had M,M,L,J, eventually I would get the DBR of Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary. I mean there's the Holy Spirit to give me understanding. It would take the Holy Spirit a while to make me understand though.

At least that is the way I see it.

I am not knocking Paul, so please do not misunderstand.

True, and I don't discount the gospels.

 

[andyc]

1 Corinthians 14

7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? 8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle? 9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

....14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.....

22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers;

Take a seat.

Tongues is speaking into the air if you are not speaking to somebody who speaks that language. Speaking what they know is what is edifying.

Can you give me one example from scripture where Paul had a conversation with someone while not having a clue what he was actually saying?

 

[andyc]

Why are you so concerned musty, after all, when your salvation is secure, you can do anything that you want to. I know this because I learned it from some good Christians on TOL.

This is the thing. They'll only accept your eternal salvation until you disagree with them, then you were never saved in the first place.

 

[andyc]

1 Corinthians 13

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

Your knowledge seems to have vanished away.

 

[andyc]

I'm sitting on you

Don't you read Paul's letters at all?...you don't seem to know what he said.

I would that ye all spake with other tongues but rather that ye prophesy EXCEPT

except he interpret that the church may be edified.

So tongues with interpretation is for edifying the body.

You should study the word of God so that you might be a workman not needing to be ashamed

They skip over all of parts where Paul is encouraging people to seek the power of God. Instead they see Paul as the messiah to the gentiles with a message of "eat sleep and be merry, for we are saved". Paul is their messiah.

Oh thank you Paul
Blessed be the name of Paul
Paul Paul Paul the sweetest name I know
There is no name under heaven and earth like the name Paul
All hail the power of Paul's name
I love you Paul, and I lift my voice......
Oh because of my wonderful Paul, I can sit and eat milk duds all day.......
Because of my wonderful Paul I don't need to do horrible things like get baptized, go to church, repent of sin, speak in tongues, fast and pray. Paul has taken these terrible things from us, he's so wonderful. Bless the name of Paul oh my soul

 

[Lazy afternoon]

1 Corinthians 14

7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? 8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle? 9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

....14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.....

22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers;

Take a seat.

Tongues is speaking into the air if you are not speaking to somebody who speaks that language. Speaking what they know is what is edifying.

1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.


LA

 

[Totton Linnet]

1 Corinthians 13

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

What do YOU know about love? does a spring gush forth both pure and bracken? you are full of cursing.

So the perfect has come has it? what? the bible? Paul's collected letters?

Do you ever read them?

Tongues are a sign to the unbeliever...that's YOU, YOU are the unbeliever

Verse 26
How is it then brethren when ye come together? EVERYONE OF YOU hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto EDIFYING

If any man speak in a tongue let it be by two or at the most three and that by course and let one interpret.

What is YOUR function in the body of Christ?

....handing out hymnbooks I suppose

 

[Totton Linnet]

Sloppy workman

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

They skip over all of parts where Paul is encouraging people to seek the power of God. Instead they see Paul as the messiah to the gentiles with a message of "eat sleep and be merry, for we are saved". Paul is their messiah.

Oh thank you Paul
Blessed be the name of Paul
Paul Paul Paul the sweetest name I know
There is no name under heaven and earth like the name Paul
All hail the power of Paul's name
I love you Paul, and I lift my voice......
Oh because of my wonderful Paul, I can sit and eat milk duds all day.......
Because of my wonderful Paul I don't need to do horrible things like get baptized, go to church, repent of sin, speak in tongues, fast and pray. Paul has taken these terrible things from us, he's so wonderful. Bless the name of Paul oh my soul

Your ignorance is refreshing.

 

[musterion]

The Lord sketched it, but did not expound on it.

Paul was given the revelation of what the Lord had sketched.

The Holy Spirit would have to help me to see it clearly though.

No, use your own mind, that's what it's there for. Just find someone before the start of Paul's preaching ministry that was saved by hearing and believing Christ had died for their sins, was buried, and rose again for their justification, without works but simply on the basis of faith in the Gospel of the grace of God.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Don't let Mayor STP try to bamboozle you into thinking it was Dr. H. E. Breen. He is a Breen follower, a Breenite, in denial.

How can you talk that way about Dr. Breen after the inspiring message he gave us all that Sunday?