Can someone answer this?

[csuguy]

The kingdom is about being of the same Spirit as Jesus who is unified with our Father.

Father said not to eat certain things. We either comply with his instructions or we don't.

We are rewarded a place in the kingdom according to our compliance.

The Father said to remember his designated day of rest. We either do or we don't.

Our performance report reflects our words and actions.

It's more complicated than that Jamie. For one thing, you have the letter of the Law vs the Spirit of the Law. According to the Letter of the Law you can argue that all Priests are violating the Sabbath, for instance.

For another thing, the Law included many things like how to celebrate different holidays, how to perform different sacrifices, and other laws for special cases and for limited times, places, and people (Nazirite Vows for instance). It also contained customs pertaining to the culture which were not necessarily of direct moral consequence.

The Kosher Laws, in particular, were about culture and separating/distinguishing the Jewish People from others. Circumcision was such a practice as well, and something else that the modern Church also doesn't require of converts to Christianity. To keep/break the Kosher Laws was never a matter of sinning.

Acts 11:4-10 Starting from the beginning, Peter told them the whole story: 5 “I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was. 6 I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds. 7 Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’

8 “I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’

9 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’ 10 This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again.​

Luke 15:2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”​

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I would not call a small, young modern sect that is only 17 years old a major divide in the Jewish Tradition. That would be like saying that with the introduction of Mormonism in the 19th century, there is a major divide in the Christian Tradition as to whether there is only one God or many gods. Even approaching 200 years old now, Mormonism cannot outweigh 2000 years of traditional Christianity. (Not to say there haven't been other sects throughout history that have attempted to incorporate the God of Abraham into a larger pantheon, for surely there have been - though they are all different.)

That doesn't mean this Nehemia Gordon is necessarily wrong, of course. Tradition preserves truth, but also error should it creep in. Tradition is not infallible. I've got my own share of traditions that I don't agree with that are commonly held by Christians.

Nevertheless, the point remains that some major evidence is necessary to show a break in the Jewish Observance of the Sabbath. While you can use differences between the modern calendar and Jewish calendar to demonstrate differences in terms of the calculation of month year and numerical day of the month, the same thing cannot be said for determining which day of the week it is. As far as I am aware, 7 days in either the modern or the Jewish calendar are the same thing. So long as every seven days they observed the sabbath, then there is no logical point at which Jewish Tradition could have deviated from the proper Sabbath.

Of course, if your concern is not with whether Jews observe the Sabbath on the proper day of the week, but other numerical information like the year, month, etc. Then you can make more of a case. Again, the calculation of Easter was one example where the early Christians felt that the Jewish Tradition was incorrect in its calculations of when to observe this each year.



Perhaps, perhaps not. You would need to be able to present and defend arguments to this effect (in your own words, not by giving me a bunch of random internet links - an internet page isn't able to discuss and reason). If you are willing to put in this effort I and others will reciprocate.



Referencing materials is fine, but they should be used to substantiate particular claims - not take the place of your own arguments. I've done the link-war style of debating in the past and I don't find it to be very informative to anyone involved. In cases like this, you are asking me to devote a lot of time to studying up on your resources before you've even presented any arguments or explained what is so important about the differences between these calendars.

I love theology and will put forth every effort to studying an issue that I think is important or highly interesting. Currently I would consider this discussion a minor curiosity without any real importance in the end. I am more than willing to reconsider if you can provide appropriate arguments that can establish the importance of this topic. However, if you are not willing to put forth even this much effort, then you surely can't expect me or others to spend hours reading/watching your materials.

Ahhr so you didn't read all of the thread after all. If you did you would not have said half of what you said there. I can't waste my time if you're not going to be honest.

 

[jamie]

9 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’ 10 This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again.

What did God say not to call unclean?

"God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean." (Acts 10:28)

 

[csuguy]

Ahhr so you didn't read all of the thread after all. If you did you would not have said half of what you said there. I can't waste my time if you're not going to be honest.

First off, I never claimed to have read every little thing in this thread. So don't be insinuating that I have lied to you in some way.

Secondly, I did read a good deal of the thread - albeit not with a magnifying glass. If I reiterated a point that was presented earlier that you disagreed with, I may have either missed your rebuttal or else felt you didn't adequately address the point earlier. You should be willing to at minimum point me to the post #s where you address such and such a point.

Thirdly, I have told you that I am willing to listen to what you have to say providing you are willing to take the time to provide your arguments yourself and discuss them with me. If you think this topic truly important and worth informing others about, then I can't see what you have to complain about.

Right now you are simply coming off as lazy. If your effort here is any inclination as to the importance and/or interest you hold for this subject matter, then it is certainly not worth my time to go reading through and watching your external resources.

 

[csuguy]

What did God say not to call unclean?

"God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean." (Acts 10:28)

In Acts 11:4-10 what is being referred to is "four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds"

Or do you claim that God was telling Peter to kill and eat men?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

First off, I never claimed to have read every little thing in this thread. So don't be insinuating that I have lied to you in some way.

Secondly, I did read a good deal of the thread - albeit not with a magnifying glass. If I reiterated a point that was presented earlier that you disagreed with, I may have either missed your rebuttal or else felt you didn't adequately address the point earlier. You should be willing to at minimum point me to the post #s where you address such and such a point.

Thirdly, I have told you that I am willing to listen to what you have to say providing you are willing to take the time to provide your arguments yourself and discuss them with me. If you think this topic truly important and worth informing others about, then I can't see what you have to complain about.

Right now you are simply coming off as lazy. If your effort here is any inclination as to the importance and/or interest you hold for this subject matter, then it is certainly not worth my time to go reading through and watching your external resources.

Csuguy

There are rules here about cutting pasting lengthy posts, so I can't do that. Calling me lazy is pot kettle time or should I say splint plank time? Moving your index finger 1mm to click on the link I provided isn't exactly a taxing task. But of course it's not about that, it about the spiritual warfare; Don't listen to those demons providing you with endless excuses to not look at the truth, just do it.

 

[csuguy]

First off, I didn't ask you to copy and paste external content here. That's the opposite of what I asked for. I want you to provide arguments and discuss these things in your own words. If you can't do that, then you don't understand the material well enough to discuss it.

Second off, far more effort is required than clicking the links. I would need to spend hours reading and watching through those materials. And to what end? You aren't willing to discuss, so what reason is there to put forth such effort?

 

[jamie]

In Acts 11:4-10 what is being referred to is "four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds"

Or do you claim that God was telling Peter to kill and eat men?

Peter did not eat anything unclean, including Cornelius.

He told the Jerusalem council God made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

That's what Peter got out the vision.

 

[csuguy]

Peter did not eat anything unclean, including Cornelius.

He told the Jerusalem council God made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

That's what Peter got out the vision.

You appear to be selectively ignoring different parts of scripture to try to substantiate your view. Not a healthy approach.

 

[jamie]

Clean and unclean food is not really about what we eat.

Some people are willing to obey God, some are not.

Suit yourself.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

First off, I didn't ask you to copy and paste external content here. That's the opposite of what I asked for. I want you to provide arguments and discuss these things in your own words. If you can't do that, then you don't understand the material well enough to discuss it.

Second off, far more effort is required than clicking the links. I would need to spend hours reading and watching through those materials. And to what end? You aren't willing to discuss, so what reason is there to put forth such effort?

The words used are exactly how I would explain it. As said it's a deep study, not you usual surface reading. The rules prohibit long posts like that. whether read it here or there makes no difference. You want to be spoon fed but I don't have the time.

1 Corinthians 3:2
I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

You appear to be selectively ignoring different parts of scripture to try to substantiate your view. Not a healthy approach.

Jamie is right on this point. That's an old teaching that is not that hard to understand.

 

[csuguy]

The words used are exactly how I would explain it. As said it's a deep study, not you usual surface reading. The rules prohibit long posts like that. whether read it here or there makes no difference. You want to be spoon fed but I don't have the time.

1 Corinthians 3:2
I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.

If it isn't worth your time to present your own arguments and to debate the matter properly, then it isn't worth anyone's time to bother considering what you have to say.

 

[csuguy]

Jamie is right on this point. That's an old teaching that is not that hard to understand.

You are either ignorant of verses like Acts 11:4-10, or you also choose to turn a blind eye.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

If it isn't worth your time to present your own arguments and to debate the matter properly, then it isn't worth anyone's time to bother considering what you have to say.

You're like a child who won't eat his vegetable unless they're on his favourite plate.

 

[csuguy]

You like the child who won't eat his vegetable unless they're on his favourite plate.

You are like the shady Tsunami Insurance Agent going door to door in Utah.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

You are like the shady Tsunami Insurance Agent going door to door in Utah.

Ha ha, stranger things have happened.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Between the 1st and 3rd centuries AD, the Roman Empire gradually replaced the old eight-day Roman nundinal cycle with the new seven-day week. Our earliest evidence for this new system is a Pompeiian graffito referring to the 6th February (viii idus Februarius) of the year AD 60 as dies solis ("Sunday"):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_days_of_the_week

Yet the modern calendar says it was a Wednesday:

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=60&country=9

Julius Caesar was not Jewish or a Christian! Nor was Sosigenes! Has anyone got a brain here?

Can anyone prove our current seven day week matches the Israelite's week from the Bible? No you can't can you.

 

[Nihilo]

Between the 1st and 3rd centuries AD, the Roman Empire gradually replaced the old eight-day Roman nundinal cycle with the new seven-day week. Our earliest evidence for this new system is a Pompeiian graffito referring to the 6th February (viii idus Februarius) of the year AD 60 as dies solis ("Sunday"):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_days_of_the_week

Yet the modern calendar says it was a Wednesday:

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=60&country=9

Julius Caesar was not Jewish or a Christian! Nor was Sosigenes! Has anyone got a brain here?

Can anyone prove our current seven day week matches the Israelite's week from the Bible? No you can't can you.

So what are you saying. Tuesday is the sabbath, and Wednesday is Resurrection Day?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

So what are you saying. Tuesday is the sabbath, and Wednesday is Resurrection Day?

No.

Let me give you more detail and hopefully you will see what I am saying:

The current week on our Gregorian calendar continued without break from the previous Julian calendar; from THURSDAY 4th October 1582 to FRIDAY 15th October 1582 on to the Gregorian calendar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar

However this calendar took hundreds of years to be accepted by other countries, England didn't accept the new Gregorian calendar till the 2nd September 1752):

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar...1752&country=9

The Julian calendar began on the 1st January 45BC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar

However this calendar also took hundreds of years to be accepted by other countries and over the 1st to 3rd centuries AD, the Roman Empire gradually replaced it's old 8 day Roman week calendar with this new 7 day week Julian calendar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Now the 1st of January 1 AD was a SATURDAY:

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1&country=9

This matches Torahcalendar.com:

http://www.torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y-1M10

Which would make the 1st of January 45 BC a FRIDAY:

http://www.torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y-46M10

But what was the day before? Because the Romans were previously using an 8 day week calendar before this date and the days were not called Monday, Tuesday etc (which are names based on Roman gods), but instead the days were simply listed as; A, B, C, D, E, F, G, & H (8 Days):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Therefore how can the Roman Julian 7 day week calendar invented by the Greek Mathematician Sosigenes in 45 BC have anything to do with the 7 day week the Jews and Israelites had been using for hundreds of years before this new 7 day week was invented?

If you want to keep thinking Saturday or Sunday is your special day then carry on ignoring all this but if you want to know when the real Sabbath is then you can find out by studying any of these links:

Texts:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

Videos:

The Creator's Calendar

9 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbzFGEfgP_8

15 mins (or faster with the high speed setting):

International Date Line Change: The Sabbath Unchanged by Worlds Last Chance Ministries?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sUyZpM5xls

79 min (or faster with the high speed setting):

Robert-Aaron Richmond explains from scripture how God’s Calendar works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=wJq8tKvnemU