Can Man's Sinful Adamic Nature Be Rehabilitated?

iouae

Well-known member
Do you often blame others when you choose to sin?

Show me how she shoved it down his throat.

Also was God wrong when sin was attributed to entering the world though Adam? Should it not say Eve according to you?

God was not wrong. Paul was wrong. He was being a bit of a misogynist not to attribute sin to Eve. Paul was intent on cramming everything into his 1st Adam, 2nd Adam analogy, that he ignored what the woman did as being of no consequence.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
God was not wrong. Paul was wrong. He was being a bit of a misogynist not to attribute sin to Eve. Paul was intent on cramming everything into his 1st Adam, 2nd Adam analogy, that he ignored what the woman did as being of no consequence.

A misogynist would be the first to attribute being deceived as willful sin, especially when it came to a woman.

Better than also claiming either God or Paul was wrong, how about admitting you might be wrong?
 

iouae

Well-known member
The Bible doesn't say how long "a long time" was, but okay so far.
Here's where your logic breaks down. His choice to sin (for he was not deceived as the woman was) IS the fall as far as you and I are concerned for we are all counted as in him, not in her. This, I suspect, prefigures the believer's positional standing in Christ, simultaneous with his positional removal from Adam.


OK so Adam chose wrong. Why make this sound like a switch clicked in the universe from "all righteous" to "all sinners"? There were only two people and they represented all humanity in that all humanity from that time on has been in the sinful camp.

But that is a far cry from blaming Adam for my sin. There is no connection.

I'm not going to argue the nature of Adam's nature. All I need to do is remind you that his relationship with God - heretofore perfect - was now damaged by his choice to sin. So it is with our own relationship with God, BY NATURE (take that as literal or as a figure of speech but it amounts to the same thing, for we ALL sin and fall short...where do we get that? From Adam).

No we don't. All we got from Adam were our genes, and a bad example, just like all of us pass on to our own offspring.


Dead wrong. The old man is all one has and is apart from Christ, and the old man, the flesh, IS sin.

How can the flesh of itself be sin? I have eaten some good flesh. Is that also sin? Adam was made mortal/flesh. By your logic, Adam was made sin, by God.


Dead wrong. The old man can do nothing BUT sin.

Not so. Adam, made of flesh, lived without sin for a while.
Every day, pagans love their children and do noble things, which are not sin. The problem is that even with one sin, and no Christ, the wages of sin is death. But please don't give be some story that my eyes can see is false.


That's why the only remedy to Him is the crucifixion...being reckoned as DEAD. The logic of your position, to the contrary, seems to be that the old man can be tamed, trained or reformed to an extent that eventually pleases God.

You do realise that "old man" is an analogy for our past self making sinful choices? It gets, by analogy, drowned at baptism.

Walking with Christ, we make better choices as the "new man".
But the "old man" rears its ugly head when someone cuts us off in traffic. It is only by analogy "dead". Our past bad habits come back to haunt us under pressure.

Dead wrong. The new man CANNOT sin.

Why do you think we pray "forgive us our trespasses as we..." if the new man CANNOT sin? Are you saying we CAN and DO sin, but God forgives this? But paleeese don't say you cannot sin.


We -- all of us -- get that alienation from Adam.

Again, not so. God had a fine relationship with Abel.
We -- all of us -- get that alienation from SINNING OURSELVES.
 

iouae

Well-known member
A misogynist would be the first to attribute being deceived as willful sin, especially when it came to a woman.

Better than also claiming either God or Paul was wrong, how about admitting you might be wrong?

I read the original story, as well as Paul's retelling of it.
No, I am not wrong, Eve sinned first. I am quite sure of that.
 

chair

Well-known member
Because God is Holy he must judge sin. If he did not judge sin he would not be holy and righteous.

Jesus became sin for us, 2 Corinthians 5:21. Instead of God's judgment falling on us, it fell on Christ, 1 Peter 2:24.

So, your god is incapable of forgiveness. But human sacrifice can help placate him

Did I get this right?.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
OK so Adam chose wrong. Why make this sound like a switch clicked in the universe from "all righteous" to "all sinners"? There were only two people and they represented all humanity in that all humanity from that time on has been in the sinful camp.

But that is a far cry from blaming Adam for my sin. There is no connection.

That's why monks and hermits live in a cave, so they can't sin.
 

iouae

Well-known member
That's why monks and hermits live in a cave, so they can't sin.

I have a different reason for wanting to live in a cave - to escape all the stuff falling to earth which Rev talks about. I am a doomsday prepper at heart, without the preps :)
 

iouae

Well-known member
So, your god is incapable of forgiveness. But human sacrifice can help placate him

Did I get this right?.

No. Let's suppose you see your daughter sick and suffering in bed. You wish it could be you in her stead, so that she could be happily running around outside. That is what God feels, compassion for His suffering children. So He sent Christ to suffer in their stead, so that we can be happily running around, as we do today.

It has nothing to do with God needing placation.
It is about God wishing to show mercy by changing places with our suffering.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Do you often blame others when you choose to sin?

No, I know why I do it.

Adam and Eve didn't.



Show me how she shoved it down his throat.

She didn't have to.

He wanted her to dig him too.


Also was God wrong when sin was attributed to entering the world though Adam?

Course not, Adam was the one commanded not to eat.

Should it not say Eve according to you?

No, you should really go back a few pages and read what I have said.

I think you might be surprised.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
But that is a far cry from blaming Adam for my sin. There is no connection.

The woman was deceived and sinned inadvertently. Adam was not deceived and chose to sin.

Because of Adam's willful sin God has appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment (Hebrews 9:27 NKJV).

Jesus died to redeem Adam from his sin as well as redeeming us from our sin.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
I have a feeling this is your generic answer to all questions ;)

So let us test your answer. What do you say being subject(ed) to vanity means?

I say it means everything we do is transient, short-lived, because it disappears after we die. That is what Solomon meant when he said "all is vanity".

So I see your answer that Adam was subject to vanity as having no bearing on Adam's choices.

How does Adam being made mortal make him unable to choose wisely?

Adam was created flesh.

Sin is in the flesh.

Adams spirit could only search himself.

Therefore Adam was enslaved to himself.

In this state, Adam had no more ability to perform that which is good than Paul did.

Not only that, he didn't want to.

Until the spirit of God comes to commune with our spirit one cannot know or love God.
 

iouae

Well-known member
Because of Adam's willful sin God has appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment (Hebrews 9:27 NKJV).

Adam's sin got all mankind cut off from the Tree of Life.

But one speculates what would have happened if Adam and Eve did not sin. At some stage one of their descendants would have sinned. How would this have played out? Would all have been cut off from the TOL from then on, or only those who sinned? Would we have had some living in Eden, and some outside Eden?
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Adam was created flesh.

Sin is in the flesh.

Adams spirit could only search himself.

Therefore Adam was enslaved to himself.

In this state, Adam had no more ability to perform that which is good than Paul did.

Eve was just a typical woman.

Not only that, he didn't want to.

Until the spirit of God comes to commune with our spirit one cannot know or love God.


interesting
 

iouae

Well-known member
Adam was created flesh.

Sin is in the flesh.

Adams spirit could only search himself.

Therefore Adam was enslaved to himself.

In this state, Adam had no more ability to perform that which is good than Paul did.

Not only that, he didn't want to.

Until the spirit of God comes to commune with our spirit one cannot know or love God.

Thank you for this elaboration.

It sounds reasonable.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day and Adam and his wife... (Genesis 3:8 NKJV)​

Bad translation of the Hebrew.

It wasn't until she received his seed that he knew his wife.

Guess what?

Hadn't happened yet.

Kinda screws up the serpent seed doctrine hunh?
 

iouae

Well-known member
Bad translation of the Hebrew.

It wasn't until she received his seed that he knew his wife.

Guess what?

Hadn't happened yet.

Kinda screws up the serpent seed doctrine hunh?

I honestly do not know how anyone can think that Adam and Eve were not married from day 1 (or should I say day 6/Friday). Of course they were. They were naked and in love. There is ZERO doubt in my mind what happened Friday night, or shortly thereafter, with God's full blessing. God even encouraged them to be fruitful and multiply. For God to say this proves they were "married" by default.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
What fall?



Romans 8:20 KJV


20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,







No he said he would multiply the sorrow, the shameful sorrow brought on by her vanity.

She would lie beneath the man during conception and her desire to rule would go to her husband.


Nice try though.:)

Bump.

Not labor pains.

Multiplied sorrow.



Genesis 3:16 KJV


16 Unto the woman he said , I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
 
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