Can Man's Sinful Adamic Nature Be Rehabilitated?

[iouae]

My rule for determining when something is literal or not is scriptural context. Scripture is written here a little and there a little. We must connect the dots.

As for the river of the water of life, Jesus said, "On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink" (John 7:37 NKJV)

If the river in Revelation 22 were literal where would the water go? There is no sea.

Also there was no more sea. (Revelation 21:1 NKJV)

See?

Obviously anything I say is speculative...

There is a huge river in Botswana which does not run into the sea. Every year it rains in the highlands, and this river runs into the Okavango Delta. This is a huge land honeycombed with smaller rivers and which supports some of the best game viewing in Africa - which few tourists have ever heard of.

The river just runs into this inland delta where the water slowly seeps into the sandy soil. It never gets salty like the Dead Sea either.

The Rev 22 river runs down the middle of a huge street (of gold??). On either bank are the Trees of Life with their different fruits every month. The river flows from the throne of God, for thousands of miles, and eventually just disappears as trees absorb its water and as it soaks into the soil.

People stroll, cycle, rollerblade or whatever on the road on either side of the river. Occasionally they rest in the shade of the Tree of Life, or eat its varied fruits, which are not love, joy etc. but pomegranate, and fig, and mulberry etc. including fruits we have not yet seen.

 

[jamie]

Obviously anything I say is speculative...

Why do people eat the figs and the other fruit? After all they are immortal.

 

[chrysostom]

My rule for determining when something is literal or not is scriptural context. Scripture is written here a little and there a little. We must connect the dots.

As for the river of the water of life, Jesus said, "On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink" (John 7:37 NKJV)

If the river in Revelation 22 were literal where would the water go? There is no sea.

Also there was no more sea. (Revelation 21:1 NKJV)

See?

the river is literal
if
there is no sea isn't

rome has a river runnning through it

 

[jamie]

What is this unitarian verse you spew?

Jesus' prayer.

 

[iouae]

Why do people eat the figs and the other fruit? After all they are immortal.

Because they taste good, and when you are immortal they do not put on weight.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Why do people eat the figs and the other fruit? After all they are immortal.

Jesus ate fish after the Resurrection.

 

[Robert Pate]

Jesus ate fish after the Resurrection.

Will we eat fish in heaven?

 

[jamie]

Because they taste good, and when you are immortal they do not put on weight.

Ok, so the people don't have to eat the fruit, it's just something to do, right? If they eat it's okay, if they don't eat it's okay.

 

[iouae]

Ok, so the people don't have to eat the fruit, it's just something to do, right? If they eat it's okay, if they don't eat it's okay.

This is my position.

Only the YHWH Gods have immortality. That is Christ and the Father.

All other spirit beings, meaning all angels in heaven, demons, and us in the future have conditional eternal life. We will have to eat continually forever to maintain our immortality. This was no different to what Adam was offered. I believe they did eat of the Tree of Life. Nothing was stopping them. But, being cut off, they died.

This is being hinted at in the following verse...

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Why would immortals need healing? Because even immortals need maintenance. They run down.

 

[jamie]

This is my position.

Only the YHWH Gods have immortality. That is Christ and the Father.

And this is my position.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Corinthians 15:53 NKJV)​

 

[jamie]

Only the YHWH Gods...

Gods?

God is one and we are one with him.

 

[iouae]

And this is my position.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Corinthians 15:53 NKJV)​

Immortality means living forever. I believe in that.

Most ASSUME this means without sustenance.

 

[jamie]

...and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Yes, the fruits of the Spirit will heal the nations. One of those fruits is peace.

 

[iouae]

Gods?

God is one and we are one with him.

The Bible uses the word "elohim" both of Christ and the Father, as well as the angels and demons. All spirit beings are spoken of in the Bible as "elohim" but only the elohim who created the other elohim are referred to as the Jehova (YHWH) Elohim.

 

[iouae]

Yes, the fruits of the Spirit will heal the nations. One of those fruits is peace.

Yes, I read your rule of context - which I consider no rule at all.

My rule, which actually is a rule which can be applied by others as well as me is this "If it can be taken literally, then take it literally". And there is no problem with me taking trees and rivers literally.

 

[jamie]

Immortality means living forever. I believe in that.

Most ASSUME this means without sustenance.

Satan told Eve that if she ate the fruit she would not die.

Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die." (Genesis 3:4 NKJV)​

Immortality means life inherent.

 

[iouae]

Satan told Eve that if she ate the fruit she would not die.

Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die." (Genesis 3:4 NKJV)​

Immortality means life inherent.

First, the snake was lying.

Second, prove that immortality given to others is life inherent.

 

[iouae]

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Does the "his" refer to the drinker, or Christ?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Many believe that it can be. Some Catholics believe that by the grace of God working in a persons life and through the indwelling Holy Spirit, they can live a life of perfect obedience to God's Holy Law and be justified. This is why they are continually going to mass to be like Jesus.

If that were true, that we could become righteous by what we do, then Jesus lived and died in vain.

This is one reason why some people believe that Catholicism is anti-Christ. It does away with the substituionary and representative work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf, that justifies us and reconciles us to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Christians are called to live their lives before God as sinners. Saved sinners. This is why Paul refered to himself as "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Paul struggled with sin just like we do, "For the good that I would do, I don't do it, but the evil which I would not do, that I do" Romans 7:19. It is the Holy Spirit working in the Christians life that convicts him of sin. If you don't see yourself as a needy sinner, you may not have the Holy Spirit.

We are always pressing towards the "high calling" that is in Jesus Christ, but we never arrive, we always fall short of the righteousness of Christ. This is why Paul said, "As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

The Gospel is the good news that Jesus came into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. By his sinless life, he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy Law. It is this life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26. That was not enough, something had to be done about our sins, "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

When God accepted Jesus into heaven we were accepted in him. God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

Excellent post Pate

 

[jamie]

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Does the "his" refer to the drinker, or Christ?

"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."

But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive... (John 7:38-39 NKJV)​