Believers? Interesting...
Speaking of Elect... (Zechariah 13:6). Where is Jesus when He says this? And... How are the people asking Him this question... standing before God... and still alive?
CALVINISM: The Belief that God Predestinates People to Hell Before Birth.
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Believers? Interesting...
Speaking of Elect... (Zechariah 13:6). Where is Jesus when He says this? And... How are the people asking Him this question... standing before God... and still alive?
fishrovmen
Active member
I couldn't find any version of the bible that reads there is more than one person asking the question in verse 6.
These three remain...
Faith... Hope... and Love... According to (2 Peter 3:9) ... God has a Salvational Desire... thus "Will". I will simply say this... is it God's scriptures that depletes your HOPE in Gods Love for ALL Of Mankind?
(Galatians 3:22) would explain this... But... even scripture is NOTHING... compared to (John 5:39)
I'm certain it isn't HE that depletes your hope for ALL mankind.
# Perhaps we agree on these matters.
Last edited:
fishrovmen
Active member
I dont recall ever mentioning being a calvinist, nor a loss of hope for God's love for mankind. You must have me confused with someone else.
Last edited:
Well... don't I look stupid...
My apologies...
And... If you agree with the last thing I posted... then... we both Rejoice in the Love of the King of kings and Lord of lords.
# I fixed the post...
This type of reply is called an ad hominem or just plain trolling. Please support your side with sound arguments and scripture instead of attacks. Lon was very polite with you in his reply. Please return the favor. You'll have more successful dialogue.
heir
TOL Subscriber
You're out of order. You aren't saved and sealed until after that you trust the Lord believing the gospel of the grace of God (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
This type of reply is called an ad hominem or just plain trolling. Please support your side with sound arguments and scripture instead of attacks. Lon was very polite with you in his reply. Please return the favor. You'll have more successful dialogue.
[MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION] ,
God knows I deserve the Missle I'll catch for this... I would rather buzz the tower and take what comes... then tolerate a bully named [MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] that wraps themselves in self righteous... false humility...
The second # (hashtag) in my eloquent slam... was directed to discover a suspiciousion that my burning carcass would draw historically humorous attention to.. The Calvinists are Soft and Tattle...
I've Got no tolerance for people that elevate themselves above others and hide behind snitching... while acting sweet enough to veil their deceit. They are as theologically reliable as "Jim Jones Energy drinks"...
Essentially... [MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] proved my suspicion and now owns # point two...
Light this "EVIL" Bird up
[MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION] ...
I'll be okay....
You're my favorite F-14 and I have learned a valuable lesson from ToL. The man that stabs someone in the back can afford to be kind... but the man that walks in integrity is willing to go toe to toe.
I'll put it this way... I don't like money changers that charge a theological toll to get into the pearly gates...
[MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] ... (1 Kings 8:27) ... what makes you think that you and AMR's Ideas are any different? You both disgust me... and I hope I go down in a blaze of glory... Snitches boast of theological riches... but (Proverbs 27:6) ... Way to prove my point [MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] ... wear those stickers with pride... you earned em.
; )
I never backstab... but square off face to face...
# Light me up [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION] ... troll I am not... I was just disgusted... at [MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION]'s post ...
He has been passive aggressively bullying two people I count friends... those two people may not feel the same about me... but I can honestly say that I'm not a passive aggressive coward like some children of the Geneva Distortion.....
LONG LIVE ISRAEL and MAY ALL FALSE ALTERS BURN!!!!!
Lon
Well-known member
I ignored the former. It is a flame-out and not worth or worthy of my or anybody's time. This one at least attempts to discuss the subject.
.
.
Do you even know what you are asking? This question doesn't make sense. The answer is 'yes.'
.
I said yes. You don't even understand Calvinism clearly enough to ask a cogent question. "Yes" won't make sense because your question is wrong. Ask me why if you like. You, like Robert, hate Calvinists and we are perfect scapegoats for your vinegar. Why? :idunno: We are within Evangelical circles and councils. There are many of us affiliated with Billy Graham and the ETS. In my church denomination, we worship side by side. Just because a lay person doesn't know why, doesn't mean they are all of the sudden experts in theology. You don't 'get' to oust us. One church? Sure, but then by your own nonaffiliation, you oust everybody else. Am I defending? :nono: I'm trying to get you to think. You realize I only give grief to admitted nonChristians on TOL, right? You are angry at me because I don't put up with false teaching? The Apostle Paul didn't either. I'm not an Apostle, but I know false teaching when I see it. You? Calvinism ain't it :nono: You go ahead and think that, but it is incorrect. I'd rather you were informed than just another flamer.
I answer this differently than some of my fellow Calvinists. I believe John 3:16 as it sits. You can ask me why or how or you can sit in your self-righteous mudpuddle. Champion Jesus, please. This flame-out is just hate and vinegar. If you really thought I was in a terrible cult, and had the grace of Jesus, you'd cry for me and in patience hope for my salvation. At least as I understand the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul wished he could be cursed that his fellow Jews might be saved. I long for that kind of love. Forgive me for not portraying it as well as he. I do pray for that kind of love in me. God is not finished with me yet. Perhaps, in grace and mercy, have patience with me?
.
You'll have to come up with a few full sentences before some of this can be addressed. As it and more of this sits, I've no response to partial thoughts.
Do you understand that such would be 'saving ourselves?'
A prohibition is not giving a choice. Without the serpent, they were hard-wired to follow God's instructions ELSE you, as a nonCalvinist, have God purposefully creating sin. Do you understand that? Can you PLEASE try talking to us Calvinists without being vitriolic? I realize some Calvinists do believe like you think, but not many of us. Can you please learn that there are dead Lutherans and Evangelical Lutherans and in the same way, there are different Calvinists as well? I've never talked to you, but here is your opportunity to be meaningful instead of petty or forgettable, in grace. I'm inviting you in and trying to extend you a measure of grace. You've no history with me to have been any other way, so it is truly grace and mercy extended. Please don't treat this other human being as if I'm disposable. Such would make you the worst kind of Calvinist that you seem to hate. I don't know if you realize or understand that: Love is patient. Love is kind. If I'm lost, show me the right way. -Lon
Lon
Well-known member
Er, re-read John 6:29, please. That is 'our' verse. Can you see why?
Well, yeah. Why are you flaming out all over the board, and not just at me? :idunno:
Nanja
Well-known member
If a person is not Born of God he is unable to spiritually hear God's Words.
John 8:43, 47
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Also, the natural man can't believe on Christ or obey the Gospel because his carnal mind is enmity against God Rom. 8:7-8.
His own faith is worthless, unprofitable.
Rom. 3:11-12
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
The only Faith that pleases God is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.
Rom. 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Hi "friend"...
I wasn't kidding... You are a passive aggressive bully and your colors are exposed.
Now... I only need to quote ONE verse to rebutt you.
(John 5:39). Those are YeHoshua's (YHWH is Salvation) verses. I'm off for the week so you whiner-babies don't cry to Sherman... This is my last post until next Wednesday. (Self Saccrifice on my part to make [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION]'s life easier)
I seriously meant every word I wrote... I just threw in some good humor to cut the sting down.
"Our" verse... I could scripturally level you... See you in my Slaying thread next Wednesday? I'm already ahead of you... my first post to you and I called you Arrogant...
"OUR" scripture... I pity you...
John 5:39 + 1 John 2:27
Sorry to cause you trouble [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION] ... I'll be off till next Wednesday to appease this whining baby and hopefully spare you more crocodile tears from people that would rather defend "doctrine" than get in the "real" trenches...
# Respect to you [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION]
# [MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] "Our" verse? Someone has a Complex God complex...
Ohhh... and those religious clicks you secretly referenced to me... (through your Judas kiss rep) they're called Mid Acts Dispensationalism and Open Theism...
They are rooted in Jesus and HIS Scripture...
You, my deceitful friend, are an anti Zionist and follow a post humous prophet named "Reform".
# Don't ever rep me again! I mean it! Back stabbing, false humility... gospel distorter.
That's what's really on my mind...
If I'm not banned... I'll see you next Wednesday.
# Keep your Judas Kisses for your Calvin Clique.
Being that the Reformation produced the doctrine of justification by faith (alone), he wouldn't have one based in legitimacy :chuckle:
I'm starting to feel like the best way to tackle anti-Calvinists is to just repeat these facts and let them crash into them over and over until it sinks in.
Because it seems like they simply want you to delve into just enough detail which they can skew with false dilemmas.
Lon
Well-known member
Ah, so we passive aggressives (if that's what I am) can't be saved? :think: You don't have much room in your version of heaven. That's too bad
You'll not like this, coming from me and all, but your theology is threatened. I cannot be threatening to ask people to reread scriptures. Are you so clingy to your pet ideals not even Christ can assail them? Good grief, I asked you to pray for me.
Whether you know it or not, you agreed to abide by TOL rules. You are breaking them. I don't think our Lord Jesus Christ needs that kind of attribution.
I never thought otherwise.
:think: I didn't see any? :idunno:
It is a personal problem for you, not really a spiritual one. I am arrogant, and God opposes the proud, but I didn't assume he'd use someone more arrogant to correct me. You'll need to soul search as often as I by the time we are finished with our little spat (you are standing in the way of Jesus).
Agreed, but you posted it like it didn't agree with Calvinism. It does. You are trying for petty and hasty 'kills.' Why? :idunno: If you actually spend time discussing with me, I will give you scriptures to think about.
:nono: When you refuse to listen to her or follow TOL rules you've agreed to follow in signing up, that is absolutely not respect. It is actually disrespect and makes your initial agreement a lie.
:nono: This isn't even trendy pop-psych :nono:
:think: Makes sense. I've seen this phenomena before.
There are some tremendous archive threads on TOL covering the subject. Knight has Open Theism 1,2 and 3. Well worth the read whether OT or not.
And you've called down lightening. A few of you are as zealous as new Calvinists. It makes sense to me. I think temperance...
James and John were sons of thunder... :think:
Uhm, I use rep simply to send messages.
It was what I was thinking. James and John wanted to call down lightening. It was zealous but wrong. Jesus loved them anyway. I appreciate zealousness for the Lord, even if misguided (which I think this is).
Maybe even if you are. I'd guess just a zero point warning for first offense.
Try and see how your fellow Open Theists think of me before you go off? See ya around son of thunder.
heir
TOL Subscriber
You are not and cannot be saved having never had a moment in your life when you trusted the Lord AFTER hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Your thinking that you were zapped before ever hearing the gospel by which we are saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), proves that you are still in a lost condition as the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (although no longer to the Jew first and also to the Greek).
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Nanja
Well-known member
Your mind is blinded to understanding the scriptures because you are Lost 2 Cor. 4:3-4.
According to the scripures, first a person is Born of God, then they receive the Faith / Trust in the Lord which is a Fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22.
Only then are they able to Hear and Believe the Gospel through the working of the Spirit of God.
Remember, those who are not of God cannot Hear God's Words John 8:43, 47.
Prov. 20:12
The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.
So it's only the Believing / Faith which is a Fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth that pleases God Gal. 5:22. Because we know that those in the flesh cannot please God Rom. 8:7-8!
Also, you must know that 1 Cor. 15:1-4 only applies to God's Elect which were chosen In Union with Him before the foundation. They were In Christ when He died, when He was buried, and they were raised together with Him experimentally by New Birth.
And Rom. 1:16 which you quoted applies to to everyone that believeth.
Who are the ones which believeth?
Those who are Born of ths Spirit of God, given Belief/Faith in New Birth Gal. 5:22.
fishrovmen
Active member
We all know that there is no "Calvinist teaching" to be found as Pate claims. Even Robert knows it. It just goes to show how blind to the truth and desperate a person can be to cling to the man made religion of Pateism.
Lon
Well-known member
I'm not sure she isn't saying she didn't Romans 10:13, but rather that Christ did everything, including prompting that trust, 'if' I am reading that correctly. We may vary on what Jesus did, and what we did, but I don't believe that, in and of itself, negates salvation. I put a lot of stock in Romans 10:13. I believe "all" means all but conversely, I think a few people said a prayer who have no intention (not necessarily anybody I know on TOL) of loving or wanting the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 John 5:12
heir
TOL Subscriber
:rotfl:
That's the gospel by which I am saved (the glorious gospel of Christ 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). You believe not that it is the power of God to save you after you believe. That makes you the lost in the passage.