Battle Talk ~ BR XI

[theo_victis]

Does this person deserve the DP?

He was divorced once, had problems with lust (committing adultery in his heart), then remarried while his wife was still alive (making it adultery), got divorced again, then recieved a misdemenor for beating a child.

 

[DEVO]

Does this person deserve the DP?

He was divorced once, had problems with lust (committing adultery in his heart), then remarried while his wife was still alive (making it adultery), got divorced again, then recieved a misdemenor for beating a child.

Who are you addressing?

 

[theo_victis]

anyone can feel free to answer. Based on Turbo's view, should this man be put to death?

 

[Turbo]

anyone can feel free to answer. Based on Turbo's view, should this man be put to death?

No. Even according to the laws God set up for Israel, none of the things you listed were capital crimes.


Even if this person had actually committed adultery, it would not be right to execute him because adultery is not currently a capital crime in this nation. If our government were to correct our laws today to make adultery a capital crime, it could not rightly prosecute those who had committed adultery before the new law went into effect.

 

[DEVO]

anyone can feel free to answer. Based on Turbo's view, should this man be put to death?

Theo my question isn't so much about a specific crime but more tuned to help us all understand your assertion that the phrase "love keeps no record of wrongs" should be applied to criminal justice.

Yet since I know this is causing you a major hang up lets assume we are talking about a murderer....

Now, Theo lets try again

This is not love! Love keeps no records of wrong:

Theo, my question for you....

Which of the following two options fits best with the statement "keeps no record of wrongs"?

A. Keeping no record of a murderers wrongs and setting them free just as they were before the murder.

or...

B. Determining a jail sentence for a murderer and keeping a criminal record for that murderer so that we know how long to keep him in jail. When the murderer asks... "can I leave jail?" we can tell them "no" because we have a record of the murder they committed and the length of jail term they are to serve.

Which is more like "keeping no record of wrongs", A or B?

 

[theo_victis]

Originally Posted by theo_victis

anyone can feel free to answer. Based on Turbo's view, should this man be put to death?

Turbo responded with this:

No. Even according to the laws God set up for Israel, none of the things you listed were capital crimes.

Lets look at the Bible concerning adultery.

Leviticus 20:10 (New International Version)

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Proverbs 6:32 (New International Version)
32 But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment;
whoever does so destroys himself.

I asked and you responded:

TheoQ5: What are things that should mandate the DP?

Turbo A-TheoQ5: Capital crimes. These include murder, rape, adultery, homosexual conduct, bestiality, kidnapping, falsely accusing another of a capital crime.

Turbo stated:

I've chosen to mainly focus on murder because the topic of this debate is whether or not Christians should support the death penalty, and murder is the most obvious crime deserving of death. Seeing as though you don't even think murderers should be executed, I don't think a discussion about whether adulterers should be put to death would be productive.

Turbo also stated:

thousand years prior to the two examples you gave, God forgave David for committing murder and adultery. Yet in doing so, you acknowledge that God did not negate his commandments that murderers and adulterers be put to death. The same is true of the two New Testament example you cited.

So Turbo, did you change your mind about adultery then? Is it or isnt it a capital offense?

What this man did is considered adultery:

Romans 7:1-3 (New International Version)

1Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.

Even if this person had actually committed adultery, it would not be right to execute him because adultery is not currently a capital crime in this nation.

Interesting, does this apply to the DP as well?

 

[DEVO]

You can run but you can't hide

This is not love! Love keeps no records of wrong:

Theo, my question for you....

Which of the following two options fits best with the statement "keeps no record of wrongs"?

A. Keeping no record of a murderers wrongs and setting them free just as they were before the murder.

or...

B. Determining a jail sentence for a murderer and keeping a criminal record for that murderer so that we know how long to keep him in jail. When the murderer asks... "can I leave jail?" we can tell them "no" because we have a record of the murder they committed and the length of jail term they are to serve.

Which is more like "keeping no record of wrongs", A or B?

 

[theo_victis]

Theo maybe you missed my post?
Now, Theo lets try again
You can run but you can't hide

Ok. I am going to answer you, but seriously, I am not obligated to respond to you!

alright.....

Which of the following two options fits best with the statement "keeps no record of wrongs"?

A. Keeping no record of a murderers wrongs and setting them free just as they were before the murder.

or...

B. Determining a jail sentence for a murderer and keeping a criminal record for that murderer so that we know how long to keep him in jail. When the murderer asks... "can I leave jail?" we can tell them "no" because we have a record of the murder they committed and the length of jail term they are to serve.

Which is more like "keeping no record of wrongs", A or B?

\

A, which is exactley what Christians should try to impliment.

However, A cannot always be applied, say someone does not repent, but rather insists on killing a billion people when they get out. We cannot let them go until they are reformed.

Life isnt as black and white, A or B, this choice or that one, as you make it out to be with this dichotomy.

 

[Primghar]

What about judging? Why are you judging Turbo if you think judging is bad?

haha. Just because I said something Turbo said was stupid is not judging him. I did not say he was stupid.

 

[DEVO]

A

Correct! Option "A" more closely follows the notion "keeps no record of wrongs".

Yet you advocate option "B" (imprisonment).

Why do you not practice what you preach?

 

[Primghar]

i am the christ

can you imagine me throwing the switch ??????

you idiotes

the is no one here...no body in my head

dont faint

ONLTY THe OBSERVING

the real you and me == ONE

no misery self ha ha

forgivrness and compassion are automatic

worship music

hahaha--i love this person! Ohhhh, funny.

 

[theo_victis]

Why do you not practice what you preach?

Well... certainly advocating that people should get the DP doesnt allow me to practice what I preach! In fact, I have stated that idealistically I would let people free after confession, repentance and transformation by Christ. However, as I indicated in the debate, there are times where we must excersise more caution (such as Charles Manson who wanted to kill no matter what).

 

[DEVO]

I have stated that idealistically I would let people free after confession, repentance and transformation by Christ.

And if they murdered again?

 

[theo_victis]

Devo, now can you answer my question? Should the described man (that I indicated a few posts back) recieve the DP? Does he deserve it?

 

[Primghar]

Turbo's comment was funny, and meaningful.

No...it was just juvenile. Kinda funny....but not meaningful at all.

 

[Turbo]

Lets look at the Bible concerning adultery.

Leviticus 20:10 (New International Version)

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

That is a great law! Every nation should have a law like that. :up:

So Turbo, did you change your mind about adultery then?

Nope.

Is it or isnt it a capital offense?

In our nation it is not a capital offense. However, God says that it should be a capital offense, so our government should change its laws accordingly. However, as I said, if adultery became a capital crime in this nation today it would be wrong to prosecute someone for committing adultery before it was recriminalized.

What this man did is considered adultery:

Romans 7:1-3 (New International Version)

1Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.

There is no mention of divorce in this passage. Paul is setting up an illustration about being "dead to the law":

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.​

Although God hates divorce, He allows it.

Even if this person had actually committed adultery, it would not be right to execute him because adultery is not currently a capital crime in this nation.

Interesting, does this apply to the DP as well?

I don't understand what you are asking. Could you please rephrase it?

 

[Primghar]

How old are you, 14?

So...how old are you? I am 19. I will guess you are.....29?

 

[Turbo]

So...how old are you? I am 19. I will guess you are.....29?

Psst! Her birthdate is in her profile.

 

[Primghar]

Psst! Her birthdate is in her profile.

Yah, but she got mine wrong. I thought maybe since her math skills weren't so great that she was off a little bit on her birth year.

Just kidding. I actually just forgot the birthdate was in the profile.

 

[theo_victis]

In our nation it is not a capital offense. However, God says that it should be a capital offense, so our government should change its laws accordingly. However, as I said, if adultery became a capital crime in this nation today it would be wrong to prosecute someone for committing adultery before it was recriminalized.

So on a technicality he gets off? What happened to eliminating the arbitrary nature of the DP?

Although God hates divorce, He allows it.

Maybe you were missing the point of the passage. Remarriage after divorce while either spouse is still alive is considered adultery. This man committed adultery in his heart, ending his first marriage, and external adultery by remarrying.

I don't understand what you are asking. Could you please rephrase it?

Sure. If our country doesnt have the DP in some states, then it would not be right to execute someone in those states? Right? It would be unjust.