popsthebuilder
New member
So ages to come within context means now at this time to you based on scripture?
I don't doubt that saints are in heaven, just to be clear.
Are there Saints In Heaven? Poll Question
- Thread starter patrick jane
- Start date
I don't doubt that saints are in heaven, just to be clear.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I would think the point was that those "good works" would be credited to God....for we are His workmanship. That He has ordained such proves it is Christ who lives in us, and it is the Spirit's fruit that is manifest in us.
"And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us." (Hebrews 11:39-40)
Why didn't any of these people make it?
I gave the answer, you didn't see it
glorydaz
Well-known member
The question should be what Promise is being spoken of there. Some possibilities....
One, they lived before the Cross, and received not the promised Messiah in their lifetime.
Two, they lived before the Cross, and no man ascended into heaven before the Lord.
Three, they were not "made perfect" by being created IN CHRIST JESUS.
You routinely take verses out of context, I'll read about it tonight
Rosenritter
New member
Your answer is at the resurrection of the dead then?
Ephesians 2:6-7 KJV
(6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
(7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
That would be consistent with Revelation 22:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Luke 19:15, etc.
Spoiler
So why did you just now say the saints are in heaven? You asked me for clarification before, and one of the points I gave was that scripture straight out denies that there are saints in heaven. Twice. Meaning it says two different times "not in heaven" not that I repeated this point twice.
John 3:13 KJV
(13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Acts 2:34 KJV
(34) For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
God's Truth
New member
The saved are seated with him now:
1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
God's Truth
New member
You are going against me for saving Jesus is the temple!
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."
God's Truth
New member
The scriptures plainly say that we are seated with Christ now.
The scriptures plainly say that when Jesus died on the cross he went in his Spirit to the spirits that died a long time ago.
Rosenritter
New member
Now? As in you are in heaven right this very second GT? I'm just trying to make sure, it sounds a lot like an answer I once heard from someone.
Rosenritter
New member
Spirits that died a long time ago? I know of a spot where it says that by the quickening of his spirit (his resurrection) Jesus preached to spirits in prison, ancient ones from the days of Noah, but nothing about these spirits having died.
God's Truth
New member
Those scriptures you referenced say they received it when the first Christians received it! They should not be made perfect about from us...
Those who waited for it received it when the first Christians did, they were the great cloud of witnesses.
Those righteous of the Old Testament still waited for the day Jesus came and died for the world.
No one was made perfect until Jesus came and died.
Faith in Jesus' blood makes those belonging to God perfect, even those who died before Jesus’ ministry on earth; however, they still had to wait till Jesus' blood was shed. The Old Testament righteous people who died before Jesus came to earth, they did not in their time get to see the promised salvation through Jesus Christ, the grace that was to come (1 Peter 1:10-12; 2 Peter 1:19; Romans 16:25-26; 1 Corinthians 4:1). Paul says about the faithful in the Old Testament times, "These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect." God's grace through faith in Jesus made the spirits of the righteous, those who had died before Jesus, they in the spirit were made perfect together with Paul and the other first Christians (Hebrews 12:23; 11:39-40). The Old Testament faithful were alive in the spirit watching from above. Paul says, "Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses..." Jesus also tells us Abraham waited to see his day, Abraham saw it and was glad (John 8:56). Abraham died, yet was alive in the spirit.
God's Truth
New member
When a person comes to God through Jesus, they HAVE COME TO MOUNT ZION, to the heavenly Jerusalem. We actually come to heaven where God is.
Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,
When people come to God through Jesus, they actually come to heaven, where God is, and Jesus, and to thousands upon thousands of angels, and to the spirit of righteous men made perfect. The spirits of the faithful who had died, but live in the spirit
The Old Testament faithful, who had died before, and Paul and all those first Christians living on earth, together were being made perfect by faith in Jesus Christ, when the gospel was first being proclaimed.
Hebrews 11:40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,
When people come to God through Jesus, they actually come to heaven, where God is, and Jesus, and to thousands upon thousands of angels, and to the spirit of righteous men made perfect. The spirits of the faithful who had died, but live in the spirit
The Old Testament faithful, who had died before, and Paul and all those first Christians living on earth, together were being made perfect by faith in Jesus Christ, when the gospel was first being proclaimed.
Hebrews 11:40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
God's Truth
New member
I don't think you seen his answer and I don't know why you are acting like you did when you didn't.
God's Truth
New member
You keep bringing up the scripture about David. It is about David's physical body not being in heaven. Go think about it some more.
God's Truth
New member
The Bible says I am in the spiritual realm now.
You should believe what you read instead of trying to reason it away.
Rosenritter
New member
Take this as a rhetorical question if you will, but then why does he says that "these all died, not having received the promises" if they had already received the promises then? It seems like you'd expect him to say "they have now received the promises" or something along that line.
God's Truth
New member
Jesus is the Holy Spirit and he went in his Spirit to prison/hell.
When do you think he preached to the spirits in prison?
You are very confused.