Abortion and The Holocaust....Differences?

[aikido7]

Of course we can use a metaphor to compare ANY two things. And Nazism and Hitler have been steady candidates to compare with our enemies. Obama has been depicted as Adolf since the first Tea Party gatherings.

Nazism could also be compared to a rose. After all, it bloomed in broad daylight, has thorns (the SS), was watered by uncertainty and anger, and was eventually picked by the allies at the end of the war.

But it is Obama who has been most likened to National Socialism. From the beginning, conservatives were on record deciding to kick him in the teeth from the beginning and to stifle and thwart his agenda for the country.

The Nazi metaphor works because most old white men--the conservative citizens today--were all veterans or friends of veterans from World War II.

 

[quip]

Nazism could also be compared to a rose. After all, it bloomed in broad daylight, has thorns (the SS), was watered by uncertainty and anger, and was eventually picked by the allies at the end of the war.

Ergo, there's absolutely no difference between roses and Nazism? :banana:

 

[aikido7]

Ergo, there's absolutely no difference between roses and Nazism? :banana:

Metaphors unite different things in a mini-story or fable. Rationality and logic won't do it.

A criticism I have of evangelicals, fundamentalists and most traditional believers is that they approach the sacred language and stories of our sacred literature with logic and rationalism. The literal trumps the holy, in my opinion.

 

[aikido7]

Nevermind.

Right !

NIRVANA !!!

 

[Alate_One]

That, and anyone who can think of a difference between abortion and The Holocaust.

The holocaust was an intentional orchestrated killing of millions of people because of who they were: Jews, Poles, Romani, the mentally ill, Political prisoners etc. The people involved in the final solution *wanted* to wipe such people off of the face of the earth.

Abortion is carried out by individuals for a variety of reasons, most of which have nothing to do with what sort of "person" we're dealing with (a 9 week old embryo doesn't have skin).

Abortion deals with a life that's dependent on another person for every moment of its existence. That means the rights of the mother and the incipient life are intertwined in a way that is not the case once a child is born.

The holocaust is the killing of people that have no dependence nor done any harm to the perpetrators simply because the perpetrators believe the group of people are damaging to society in some way.

Giving people, that can't otherwise afford them, contraceptives reduces abortion. You can't the reduce killing of adults with contraception.

Other than both being "events/practices that intentionally kill a lot of people" they really have little in common.

What is the difference between the holocaust and gun violence then?

 

[Selaphiel]

Calling for the execution of homosexuals seems to have a lot more in common with The holocaust than abortion does. Intentional killing of autonomous individuals, because they are being de-humanized based on a "difference" which is deemed inferior. Which is of course why the execution of homosexuals was a part of the organized mass murder of the Nazis.

 

[Stripe]

A 9-week-old embryo doesn't have skin.

Since when does the nature of a person's skin determine his personhood?

 

[chair]

Godwin's Law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

This entire thread illustrates this law quite nicely.

 

[chrysostom]

Calling for the execution of homosexuals seems to have a lot more in common with The holocaust than abortion does.

give me a break

how many million jews were killed?
how many million babies were killed?

how many million homosexuals were killed???????

 

[Quetzal]

Godwin's Law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

This entire thread illustrates this law quite nicely.

Pretty much this. They understand their comparison is pathetically weak, they just want to frame it in a way to empower their argument in a way they can't do themselves.

 

[Selaphiel]

give me a break

how many million jews were killed?
how many million babies were killed?

how many million homosexuals were killed???????

So as long as the numbers were not that high, it is OK or not so bad? I think you missed the entire point of the comparison. The point of the comparison is that both target autonomous individuals for eradication based on deeming them inferior, the numbers are irrelevant to the comparison. This is more analogous to The holocaust (in fact, it was part of The holocaust) than abortion.
The Nazis persecuted the homosexuals and wanted them eradicated and de-humanized them. At least 10 000 homosexuals perished in concentration camps. The persecution of homosexuality has a long history, perpetrated by many creeds and cultures, using methods ranging from the death penalty to imprisonment and inhumane medical "treatments".

 

[Stripe]

Godwin's Law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

This entire thread illustrates this law quite nicely.

And therefore, something. :idunno:

The Nazis ... wanted [homosexuals] eradicated.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[Quetzal]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Are you suggesting that the Nazis were correct to attempt to exterminate homosexuals?

 

[King cobra]

Nazism could also be compared to a rose. After all, it bloomed in broad daylight, has thorns (the SS), was watered by uncertainty and anger, and was eventually picked by the allies at the end of the war.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet…..despite the best efforts of aikido7.

And despite aikido7’s best efforts, abortion and The Holocaust smell as putrid.

The Nazi metaphor works because most old white men--the conservative citizens today--were all veterans or friends of veterans from World War II.

Interesting thought. So, I Googled “abortion holocaust” and what do you know...the top three results are about a group comprised of people born after Roe vs. Wade (1973). They point out that one third...that’s right…one third of their generation has been intentionally killed by abortion.

Also, are you saying that if you knew a veteran of WWII, you wouldn’t want to be friends??

 

[King cobra]

Metaphors unite different things in a mini-story or fable. Rationality and logic won't do it.

A criticism I have of evangelicals, fundamentalists and most traditional believers is that they approach the sacred language and stories of our sacred literature with logic and rationalism. The literal trumps the holy, in my opinion.

You’re a fan of Trump’s??

The Holy is both logical and rational, which are very similar.
Much like abortion and The Holocaust are very similar on the flip (evil) side.

 

[Tambora]

Godwin's Law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

This entire thread illustrates this law quite nicely.

It is common sense that one would use a comparison of an incident that was notorious rather then obscure.

It would be like using a notorious name to compare to another betrayer ----- like Judas or Benedict Arnold. You use a name that is notorious.
Or to use a notorious group like the KKK to compare to another racist.

The Holocaust is a notorious wickedness that is known worldwide.
Being that the Holocaust is soooooo notorious, it's gonna be used in comparisons a lot more than any other event.
That's just common sense.


In conclusion, it is common sense to compare abortion to the Holocaust.

 

[King cobra]

Right !

NIRVANA !!!

It’s good that you admit that you are justifying abortion. That’s the first step.

 

[Quetzal]

For crying out loud, let's try to stick to the facts.

• There is no systematic or purposeful genocide of fetuses.
• There is no organization working for the sole, purposeful destruction of any kind of people that is supported by law.
• There is no highly organized and vitriolic State policy aimed at demonizing and eradicating the fetus as a social/racial class.
• There is a medically viable right that women have in order to end a pregnancy that they do not want within certain time limits. (Your opinion has no weight on the fact that this exists, deal with it.)
• Nazi's wanted to control their population and they did so forcefully. There is no one going door to door looking for pregnant women to force abortions.
• There are not dedicated prisons that force women to have abortions.
• Pregnant women are not forced to live in Ghettos or other housing that is intentionally sub-par.
• Women are not forced to wear badges that display they are pregnant and must have an abortion.

Need I go on? I mean, it is pretty clear we are talking about two things that are not comparable.

 

[King cobra]

The holocaust was an intentional orchestrated killing of millions of people because of who they were: Jews, Poles, Romani, the mentally ill, Political prisoners etc. The people involved in the final solution *wanted* to wipe such people off of the face of the earth.

No argument here. Jews, Poles, Romani, the mentally ill, Political prisoners etc. were unwanted by the Nazis. They posited that some were the cause of their national and economic woes (Jews), and some sullied their racial purity (Jews, handicapped), while others were considered just plain burdensome (all of their victims).
Abortion proponents, on the same hand, posit that the vicitms of abortion are unwanted, or the cause of economic hardships, or just plain burdensome. And the targeting of minority groups and Sanger’s advocacy for eugenics confirms an underlying goal of racial purity.
And again, we’re looking for differences...not similarities.

Abortion is carried out by individuals for a variety of reasons, most of which have nothing to do with what sort of "person" we're dealing with

I wonder how many individual SS thugs gave any consideration to the sort of “person” they were shooting for target practice? After all, they were just “vermin.”

(a 9 week old embryo doesn't have skin).

A sixteen week old baby does. So let’s burn it with a final solution of hypertonic saline?

Abortion deals with a life that's dependent on another person for every moment of its existence. That means the rights of the mother and the incipient life are intertwined in a way that is not the case once a child is born.

The holocaust is the killing of people that have no dependence nor done any harm to the perpetrators simply because the perpetrators believe the group of people are damaging to society in some way.

This is merely a matter of acceptance. That child should be afforded the same motherly love whether he/she gets oxygen from the air or from amniotic fluid.

Giving people, that can't otherwise afford them, contraceptives reduces abortion. You can't the reduce killing of adults with contraception.

The “conception” of genocide (the killing of adults, children, unborn) can indeed be countered. It’s called the love of God...and loving your neighbor.

 

[King cobra]

Other than both being "events/practices that intentionally kill a lot of people" they really have little in common.

What is the difference between the holocaust and gun violence then?

Considering your choice of lower case, you must mean to compare abortion and gun violence. Sounds like an interesting thread.