Abortion and The Holocaust....Differences?

[Alate_One]

I'm not stereotyping women. I'm calling some women baby murderers because that's what they do. There are plenty of women that don't murder their babies.

No, you were promoting the stereotype that all women are obsessed with shoes. And worse that women value shoes more than babies.

And they choose murdering their baby as their solution. A baby that is NATURALLY right where it is supposed to be due to the actions of the baby's parents.

What about the reasons I listed - if economic considerations weren't an issue, do you think they would still have abortions?

 

[Quetzal]

I am taking part in a similar discussion in another forum. A user and I have been going back and forth. Today he sent me this message, I thought I would share it with you.

Dear Quetzal,

I notice that we are at ends in regards to the topic. I thought it might be helpful to share with you the reason I feel the way I do in hopes you might better understand my position.

I have lived a great life and hope to continue to do so over the coming years. I have a wonderful wife, family, and friends. I have experienced many joys and many pains along the way. These experiences have created who I am today.

I disagree with abortion in theory, and here is why. Life is a wonderful thing and I would never want to withhold that from anyone, even potential life in the form of unborn people. I see them as potentials. They could do anything, be anyone. They could do wonderful things or terrible things; that will be up to them.

This view is not perfect, of course. I have hindsight and have never been pregnant (being a man and all), so I do not have a critical perspective. I also understand that there are situations when abortions are a viable option to save the life of the mother. I allow my views the flexibility and pray for understanding as to why these things happen. Those are questions I can never hope to answer and that is why I give myself a bit of wiggle-room when these conditions arise.

I love this world, as flawed as it is. I would like as many people to experience it as possible. Who knows what they might build, create, or find. These thoughts are my only “reasoning” behind my opinion. And that is all this is, an opinion. I would never want to force anyone to accept my opinion, but I don’t let that stop me from sharing it with anyone who might listen.

I hope these words find you and ring true to my message. Thanks for reading.

I really, really like this letter. I post it not only to share the words but to also highlight the tone. There is no demonizing, none of that "You are a murderer/nazi/monster, Quetzal!" that is spewed in excess here. It is an honest, genuine display of opinion and thought, supported by what he believes is the right thing to do.

I respect that.

 

[Town Heretic]

I am taking part in a similar discussion in another forum. A user and I have been going back and forth. Today he sent me this message, I thought I would share it with you.

I really, really like this letter. I post it not only to share the words but to also highlight the tone. There is no demonizing, none of that "You are a murderer/nazi/monster, Quetzal!" that is spewed in excess here. It is an honest, genuine display of opinion and thought, supported by what he believes is the right thing to do.

I respect that.

It's a terrific letter. And your response to it is encouraging. I'm hoping it also means I won't be reading prose from you along the line of that regrettable response to Stripe the other day, because the Christian response to it would be much the same as your response to being demonized.

:e4e:

 

[Stripe]

Promoting stereotypes that paint women as making flippant decisions supports sexism and isn't borne out by the facts.

But you're allowed to question the personhood of babies because their skin hasn't formed enough for you yet.

Since when did the nature of a baby's skin determine his personhood?

 

[King cobra]

FIRST OFF....
It's a fetus, not a baby.

Planned PareTheHood’s own refer to them as babies!
Unless, of course, they are desperately trying to justify the slaughter by using more “palatable” terms like fetus or embryo.

SECOND....
It may not even be a fetus, but an embryo.

So the line is a bit fuzzy? Why take a chance?
The line at conception is crystal clear.

And THIRD....
A fetus is not cognitive, sentient, viable or able to maintain homeostasis.

So you place him/her below even vermin? He/she is a human, you know.

FOURTH
The woman doesn't have to be the host body for the fetus.

The Nazis made a similar claim regarding the Jews.

 

[Quetzal]

So you place him/her below even vermin?

That is not what was said.

The woman doesn't have to be the host body for the fetus.

The Nazis made a similar claim regarding the Jews.

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[King cobra]

I am taking part in a similar discussion in another forum. A user and I have been going back and forth. Today he sent me this message, I thought I would share it with you.

Dear Quetzal,

I notice that we are at ends in regards to the topic. I thought it might be helpful to share with you the reason I feel the way I do in hopes you might better understand my position.

I have lived a great life and hope to continue to do so over the coming years. I have a wonderful wife, family, and friends. I have experienced many joys and many pains along the way. These experiences have created who I am today.

I disagree with abortion in theory, and here is why. Life is a wonderful thing and I would never want to withhold that from anyone, even potential life in the form of unborn people. I see them as potentials. They could do anything, be anyone. They could do wonderful things or terrible things; that will be up to them.

This view is not perfect, of course. I have hindsight and have never been pregnant (being a man and all), so I do not have a critical perspective. I also understand that there are situations when abortions are a viable option to save the life of the mother. I allow my views the flexibility and pray for understanding as to why these things happen. Those are questions I can never hope to answer and that is why I give myself a bit of wiggle-room when these conditions arise.

I love this world, as flawed as it is. I would like as many people to experience it as possible. Who knows what they might build, create, or find. These thoughts are my only “reasoning” behind my opinion. And that is all this is, an opinion. I would never want to force anyone to accept my opinion, but I don’t let that stop me from sharing it with anyone who might listen.

I hope these words find you and ring true to my message. Thanks for reading.

I really, really like this letter. I post it not only to share the words but to also highlight the tone. There is no demonizing, none of that "You are a murderer/nazi/monster, Quetzal!" that is spewed in excess here. It is an honest, genuine display of opinion and thought, supported by what he believes is the right thing to do.

I respect that.

It’s a lovely, smooth message...until you spot the burrs.
Would this person allow “wiggle room” if he saw Jews crammed, naked in a room when the zyklon b began to spew?
Would he not want to “force anyone” with a differing “opinion” to stand trial for genocide?
His “flexibility” protects him, not the innocent victims.

 

[Quetzal]

It’s a lovely, smooth message...until you spot the burrs.
Would this person allow “wiggle room” if he saw Jews crammed, naked in a room when the zyklon b began to spew?
Would he not want to “force anyone” with a differing “opinion” to stand trial for genocide?
His “flexibility” protects him, not the innocent victims.

Unlike yourself, he was able to portray his opinion without resorting to inaccurate comparisons for the sake of his own argument. You could take a page from that book and learn something.

 

[King cobra]

That is not what was said.

It was implied that a fetus is not always worthy of protection because said “fetus is not cognitive, sentient, viable or able to maintain homeostasis.”

Vermin are cognitive, sentient, viable and able to maintain homeostasis so, it is implied, they are worthy of protection.

That doesn't make any sense.

Then you haven't been following the discussion.
A woman who claims she "doesn't have to be the host body for the fetus," is similar in principle to the Nazis who claimed they didn't have to be a host country for the Jews.

 

[King cobra]

Unlike yourself, he was able to portray his opinion without resorting to inaccurate comparisons for the sake of his own argument. You could take a page from that book and learn something.

They are accurate comparisons. You've even proven that by not offering a significant difference.

And I don't want any part of a book that would have me compromise with evil.

 

[Quetzal]

It was implied

You didn't make the statement, you do not get to imply anything.

 

[Quetzal]

They are accurate comparisons. You've even proven that by not offering a significant difference.

And I don't want any part of a book that would have me compromise with evil.

I have, actually, none of which you addressed in a critical way. Just more of the same. "Because Nazi" from you does not equate to a statement worth anything.

 

[Daniel1611]

I prefer pro-choice. Pro-abortion seems to assume that someone goes out of their way to promote abortion. Pro-choice assumes that someone supports abortion as an option, but not necessarily the best choice by default.

If abortion isn't killing a person, why be so concerned about calling yourself pro-abortion?

 

[Nick M]

Ben Carson pointed out that Planned Parenthood dropped abortion mills in every black neighborhood. I guess they didn't really want to get off that plantation.

 

[rocketman]

You are not accepting contrast, at all. You refuse to acknowledge anything that resembles a counter argument. There is no logical thought behind the way you guys are presenting yourself here. You have framed it in a way that accepts only one answer. That is not a discussion or a debate. At best, it is a very well thought out trolling attempt. Heck, I fell for it.

It was never up for debate it was a declaration of the obvious, your attempt to distort it only shows your alignment and acceptance with murder of the innocent. Your position is duly noted...lain:

 

[rocketman]

"Because Nazi" from you does not equate to a statement worth anything.

How about Pol Pot? Stalin? Mao? pick your favorite they all have the same thing in common with the abortionist...murder of the innocent & dismissal of the humanity of others, you are in great company Quetzal, they like you thought the same way about decency, humanity, & morality they are all relative, right?

 

[Quetzal]

It was never up for debate it was a declaration of the obvious, your attempt to distort it only shows your alignment and acceptance with murder of the innocent. Your position is duly noted...lain:

The topic of the OP was a question, how is that not an invitation for debate?

 

[Quetzal]

How about Pol Pot? Stalin? Mao? pick your favorite they all have the same thing in common with the abortionist...murder of the innocent & dismissal of the humanity of others, you are in great company Quetzal, they like you thought the same way about decency, humanity, & morality they are all relative, right?

Quite finished? Though I should know better than to expect more out of you.

 

[rocketman]

There are numerous similarities between abortion and The Holocaust.

The dehumanization of human beings, the economic “justification,” the use of victims’ bodies for research, the incinerators, and on and on.

It would seem more economical then, to find differences.

So, can anyone offer a significant difference between the two?

The topic of the OP was a question, how is that not an invitation for debate?

You really should read the OP again, the first portion of the post is a declaration of the similarities between the two...not up for debate even though you felt compelled to debate it.

The question was the differences which was up for discussion or debate if you will but, the core of the OP was a declaration that these similarities exist...period. I really couldn't care less if you agree with
it or not, in the end this site is about debate whether it be a declaration or not, I won't stand in the way of your expression of thought but, I will oppose you and point out where I think you are in error just as you will towards me. Try not to get too wrapped around the axle that I oppose you it isn't personal unless you make it that way.

 

[rocketman]

Quite finished? Though I should know better than to expect more out of you.

Not at all...is that the best you got?