Not just me, but most Open Theists too. It is
Process Theology, which most Open Theists are not. I think it would be good for you to look into the difference to determine if you are OV or Process (or perhaps both?). I think a lot of Open Theist laymen are advocates for Process Theology without probably realizing it. I just think it a good idea for a few on TOL to know they've crossed that line and become Process Theologians. Either that, or they'll have to realize they need to pull away from that edge to remain Open Theist.
Could you elaborate, and be a bit more clear? Please.
God is not limited by, or to, anything outside of Himself. He the power to limit Himself, including His knowledge. He can also limit other things by which He effectively limits what He can do. In order to do things outside those limits He must first change the other things.
No. That was my response to you asking a stupid question. And I went on to tell you what the context was, though you should have been smart enough to know the context.
That's a sign of weakness.
What is?
You provide one verse to assume God learns things that God is unaware of.
Actually it was two verses. Do you want some more?
Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought
them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that
was its name.
-Genesis 2:19
If God did not know what was happening to the people in Sodom, why was it microwave time?
Can you not read? He went to see, and He learned. He then decided it was time to drop some fire on them.
If you continue reading the chapter in question [Genesis 18] you will see more evidence that God was unaware of the situation, as Abraham bargained with Him. And God didn't simply dismiss Abraham by telling him He knew how many righteous there were; He actually engaged in the bargaining.
Then there is also Genesis 22:11-12:
But the Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!”So he said, “Here I am.”
And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only
son, from Me.”
If God did not know only Lot and company was saved (righteous) then why did the Angels go directly to Lot's house?
- They saw the debauchery in the town as soon as they entered, and walked through.
- Lot was Abraham's brother [which is actually the primary reason they went to his house].
- No one was saved prior to the cross.
Why does Abraham question God?
Because he was under the impression that God was unaware of the details of the situation. And God never corrected him on that, because Abraham wasn't wrong.
What was Abraham's question?
Do you really need me to answer that?
“Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked?”
-Genesis 18:23
Here's what I think is happening in that story.
ABE knew that the city was wicked.
ABE knows Lot lives in the town.
Abe knows God will destroy the city.
Abe is seeking to deliver Lot.
God asks if Abe should be left out of the plans.
God tells Abe that judgment has arrived.
God puts up with Abe's questioning of the righteous (saved) population within the town.
God knows who are his saved people there already (or he doesn't know us either).
God knows us because He dwells within us, and we in Him. Such was not true of His followers at this time. Not B.C.
And if God knew these things as you propose why did Abraham believe otherwise?
In response to Abe's questioning God replies:
"I have heard the cries of the people (not the victims of the city - the cries of the wicked - the stench of their abominations) I will go down and see if it is so"
Actually God said that before Abraham asked any questions regarding the cities.
This was God's chosen words to comfort Abe concerning what Abe must have known was coming. That's why God asked the question should I hide what I will do from Abe?
Abe knew it was a matter of time.
By God saying to Abe "I will go down and see"
Is a nice way of saying:
You know what is there, I hear the noise, I will go down and see if the noise is what it is - homo livin
Actually it wasn't just homosexuality.
That is it.
One statement seen in light of the context of the relationship God has to Abe and their conversation.
Actually you completely missed God stating, "and if not, I will know."
Why did God later send Abe to kill Isaac?
Did God not know?
Or was it Abe who had been learning to trust God?
Abraham didn't even know what he would do until he was doing it. That is clear in the story. God learned that Abraham's faith was strong at the same time Abraham did. God even says so, as I pointed out above with the quote from the story, when the words "now I know" proceeded from His mouth.
Why does Abe not think God would not have saved God's children out of Sodom?
Because God had been known to "rain" on the just as well as the unjust when punishing the unjust in times past. Abraham was asking Him to spare the cities for the sake of a number of righteous [which meant not destroying even the wicked if the number of righteous were met].
Abe should have trusted God but his relationship of trust had not matured.
He trusted God to be God.
Just look at SARAH his "sister" and how Abe failed her. God does not force maturity on any of us. That episode of Abe's life was to show the stage in Abe's spiritual maturity and God is merely gently telling Abe you will see.
Abraham's issue was fear of people, not a lack of trust in God. His focus was in the wrong place.
