666

George Affleck

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
It should be noted that, in Hebrew, Nero Caesar is rendered נרונ קסר.

Hebrew number equivalents for each letter are: (from right to left)

נ Resh - 200
ר Samekh - 60
ו Qoph - 100
נ Nun - 50

ק Vav - 6
נ Resh - 200
נ Nun - 50
_________
Total 666


We should also keep in mind that the things spoken of in Revelation were "things which must shortly come to pass". This places, I believe, the occurrences prophesied as being within the general time period of the beginning of the Christian church. (Unless conclusive evidence shows otherwise) Nero ruled from 54-68 a.d.

Perhaps the reason John (God as the ultimate author or course) referenced the Hebrew for the numerology was to keep the reference hidden from Rome but understandable by 1st century Christians who were mostly converted Jews.
 
George Affleck

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
I'm going to suggest that in attempting to tie 666 to Solomon, arguably the Bible's wisest individual, though not without faults, you have made a wrong turn somewhere.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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Nihilo said:
The Church---Jesus' temple (Matthew 16:18)---is a big temple!
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How massive is Jesus' temple the Church?

Global human population is about seven billions. Five of every 14 people are the Church. That's 2.5 billion people. A quick web search suggests the average weight of people is 137 pounds or a bit over 62 kilos. As a safety margin, even if we take 50% of this figure, then Jesus' Church weighs at least 171 billion pounds, or 77.5 million tons!

How heavy was King Solomon's temple, or the second temple?

I don't know, but for reference, a quick web search suggests that one of the World Trade Center's twin towers that was ruined on 9-11 weighed about 500 thousand tons, that the two towers together weighed almost one million tons, and that the largest buildings nowadays weigh about 3/4 of a million tons.

So the Church is about 77 times as heavy as were together both the World Trade Center's twin towers.

Here's a quick chart showing the relative mass of the WTC's twin towers & the Church:

-(WTC twin towers)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------(the Church)

And it could be twice as large.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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George Affleck said:
I'm going to suggest that in attempting to tie 666 to Solomon, arguably the Bible's wisest individual, though not without faults, you have made a wrong turn somewhere.
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Well I figured as much George. :)

To me we're discussing how many angels dance on the head of a pin. That it's Nero is interesting, surely, and if it's not Nero then the numerology is therefore a coincidence, but, it isn't biblical. That it's King Solomon is biblical, and it may not be correct, in which case the biblical coincidence1 remains just that, though to my eyes that coincidence is greater than Nero's numerological one. I keep pounding the podium for Solomon because he's to my eyes the most obvious choice.


1 - Revelation 13:18; cf. 1st Kings 10:14, 2nd Chronicles 9:13

:)
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Lon said:
Rev 13:16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,
Rev 13:17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.
Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Question: Where else is there a binding on the forehead or hand? see v8

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Deu 6:5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
Deu 6:6 And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart.
Deu 6:7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
Deu 6:8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
Deu 6:9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

The Jews, even today, literally bind these on their right hand and forehead:
Spoiler
V10p024001.jpg

Phylacteries.jpg



Eschatology has never been my strong suit (take it as such) but the jews misread Deuteronomy to think this was a physical binding they needed to do, even up to today as shown in the spoiler. Not that a good reminder is a bad idea, but I believe Deuteronomy is talking about the way they were/are to think and the way they were/are to act: That His scriptures need to be in thier thoughts and actions.

Similarly then, (again eschatology is not my strong suit) I believe the mark could also be about what we think and do that would have us denying Christ as our Lord and Savior. How that would account for buying or selling I do not know so I see potential flaws here.

The theme is carried here: Matthew 22:37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

Again, eschatoly - end times prophecy is not my strong suit. I had a half of a year 3 hour class on this, and did well, but I have never had strong confidence in trying to ascertain prophetic pictures and types. The ones that are tied to Daniel Joel, and Ezekiel are somewhat clear for me.

-Lon
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Lon,

Have you ever looked at Ezekiel 9? Verse 4, of course, is the hard link to the Apocalypse :

And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
Ezekiel 9:4

The 2 chapters before are the background to what is going on. But generally speaking, we have judgment beginning at the house of God. We have a great falling away (the temple was filled with idols and men worshipping towards the East). We have a generally lackadaisical attitude towards the things of God. It reminds me of Jesus asking if He will find faith on the earth when He returns (connected, I assume, with the falling away mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2). I tend to think that the monetary fixation that many have on the nature of the mark of the beast is misguided. It makes one's position in God based on the flesh more than on the spirit. So while I concede there could be a futuristic mark taken physically in the hand or forehead, I have to believe that it is primarily a spiritual mark per Ezekiel 9. The buyer and the seller are mentioned in Ezekiel 7:12, so the whole concept of buying and selling, in my mind are more general. More in terms of any transaction - conversation is one of the most basic transactions. So in the context of Armageddon (which I also believe is primarily spiritual - the demonic references are clear in Revelation), I see it more in terms of the ability to carry on life at all in any meaningful way. Those, however, that do take the mark of the beast, are free of that warfare - having capitulated to a lie, to submitting their allegiance to that Man of Sin, they have temporary lack of restraint. Interesting also that it is said of Satan that he is freed for a thousand years to deceive the whole earth.

These are part insinuation. The links are not clearly forged in exhaustive and systematic fashion, but I wonder if there is something there. AT the very least it makes it clear to me that the mark is primarily spiritual.

Thoughts?
 
F

fzappa13

Well-known member
During the course of this thread it has become apparent that those who see the events of Rev 13 as history are inclined to discount its monetary implications while those who see this as a future situation tend to focus on them.

Interesting.
 
George Affleck

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
fzappa13 said:
During the course of this thread it has become apparent that those who see the events of Rev 13 as history are inclined to discount its monetary implications while those who see this as a future situation tend to focus on them.

Interesting.
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Deliberate humour or Freudian slip?
 
George Affleck

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Nihilo said:
Well I figured as much George. :)

To me we're discussing how many angels dance on the head of a pin. That it's Nero is interesting, surely, and if it's not Nero then the numerology is therefore a coincidence, but, it isn't biblical. That it's King Solomon is biblical, and it may not be correct, in which case the biblical coincidence1 remains just that, though to my eyes that coincidence is greater than Nero's numerological one. I keep pounding the podium for Solomon because he's to my eyes the most obvious choice.


1 - Revelation 13:18; cf. 1st Kings 10:14, 2nd Chronicles 9:13

:)
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Then let's assume, for the moment, that you are correct. How do you see that working out? What are we to learn from it and how does it apply within the context of Rev. 13?
 
Skybringr

Skybringr

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George Affleck said:
I don't doubt your word on this but can you give particulars? I don't understand the process.
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Honestly, I don't know myself. I just know that the Church and many historians swear by it, so I just go on it. It makes sense in general that John of Patmos would be speaking of Nero- motive of the century, really.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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George Affleck said:
Then let's assume, for the moment, that you are correct. How do you see that working out? What are we to learn from it and how does it apply within the context of Rev. 13?
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I don't know. How would you answer the above question yourself?

Food for thought
Spoiler

Solomon sacrificed to idols. Even if he didn't really believe in those
idols, that's still huge scandal. That encouraged his whole kingdom
to sin, either literally through worshiping and believing in idols
themselves, or spiritually through the weakening of their faith;
because their own king-brother---Solomon of course being of
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's family---or brother-king, knew a
thousand different women from all over the known world, and
continuously sacrificed to their idols.

He was a terrible man, and he was the first potential
Messiah, son of David. A huge failure. As I said, he wrecked the
kingdom his father had spent the previous 40 years building, in just
another 40 years; he failed in succession planning.

His name happens to come up in a discussion of 666. I don't think
it's a coincidence.
 
JosephR

JosephR

New member
Nihilo said:
I don't know. How would you answer the above question yourself?

Food for thought
Spoiler

Solomon sacrificed to idols. Even if he didn't really believe in those
idols, that's still huge scandal. That encouraged his whole kingdom
to sin, either literally through worshiping and believing in idols
themselves, or spiritually through the weakening of their faith;
because their own king-brother---Solomon of course being of
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's family---or brother-king, knew a
thousand different women from all over the known world, and
continuously sacrificed to their idols.

He was a terrible man, and he was the first potential
Messiah, son of David. A huge failure. As I said, he wrecked the
kingdom his father had spent the previous 40 years building, in just
another 40 years; he failed in succession planning.

His name happens to come up in a discussion of 666. I don't think
it's a coincidence.
Click to expand...


This opens up a much larger can of worms as to what Solomon did, in respect to what He built physically and spiritually...

When Solomon was in relations with spirits of the brazen vessel was He blind to the God of His fathers?
 
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