2 Cor 4.4 (Jesus, The God of this age!)

[marhig]

Yes, according to scripture.








Correct, according to scripture.





That is Pre-Cross scripture.







Actually, scripture gives FULL credit to the JEWS for murdering Jesus.






Correction...WAS....







That is Pre-Cross scripture.

I see you've skipped all the verses I quoted from Paul that show us that Satan isn't bound?

 

[marhig]

God is the Light of the Word, and Jesus is the True Light. That's why YOU'RE blind.



Ah, so your claim is that God gives us over to satan. Wow.

Because we "love our flesh". So, satan is blinding the world because we love our flesh. :chew:

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.​

In the first place, Miss Smarty Pants, I haven't entered into the conversation concerning satan being bound. Keep jumping the gun like that, and I'll be convinced you're a simpleton.



Never mind. I'm convinced already. You're a simpleton. "If we listen he's in"....unless we have the Spirit....then he can't as long as we..... :blabla:



Then maybe you should try trusting Him. :chuckle:



Satan isn't free. He has never been free, but can only do what God allows.

It's satan that is "enlightening" you, little girl. He's a liar.

"FREE" :rotfl:

I see you too have left out the verses I've quoted from Paul? They show us that Satan isn't bound, I thought he is the apostle that you follow?

And as for this verse that you have quoted: John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

If the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life is not of the father but of the world, then Jesus isn't the God of this world. Satan is, because those things come from him.

Jesus said this

John 17

They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 8

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world

John 14

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

If Jesus is not of this world, then he is not the God of this world, and if Satan is the prince of this world, then he is. This world and the flesh are his domain. Jesus came into the world to save us from Satan who has control of us before we hear the gospel and have a chance to see the light. And he has those of the world in chains of darkness. God is over everything, but he has given Satan the world and those who love the world are his, and the flesh is the dust that is the food that he lives off. Christ is the light of the world, but he's not of the world he comes to bring light into this world of darkness to save as many as well believe in him and truly follow him.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, he is the way out of the world. And he's come showed us the way. And through him by the power of the Holy Spirit, the power of darkness which is the prince this world can be put to death in our hearts and cast out. We have free will, love the world and live by the will of Satan, or love God and live by his will.

We can't have both, we can't love God and mammon.

 

[marhig]

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

That was to those who don't believe in Jesus, those who said that his gospel isn't for them, those who blaspheme God and go against his will, not for those who love and follow him and obey the gospel of God and obey his words and commandments.

 

[marhig]

No.

According to Paul, Satan is bound.







The 'power of Satan', refers to his demons.






The context of 2 Cor 11 informs the reader that Satan is not present himself in the world, but, instead, his presentment is in his demons as detailed in the context of 2 Cor 11.12 – 15.









This passage simply re-enforces that Satan is bound, as they had to be 'delivered' to Satan....as Satan cannot make it in person.

The lexicons back this up with the definition of 'paredōka', as....'to deliver one into the power of Satan to be harassed and tormented with evils.'

There are numerous Biblical passages that refer to Satan's 'power' when referring to the demons.


Thus, Satan is bound, but his minions are free-ranging...

Which verse are you referring to when you say Satan is bound? Can you quote it please? Thanks

 

[marhig]

Jesus, Himself, told us in Mat 24 that terrible things would occur BEFORE the end comes, and BEFORE the release of the 'abomination of desolation' (i.e. Satan).

Jesus lists-out many things occurring BEFORE the release of Satan....false prophets, wars, rumors of wars, nation set against nation, famine, plagues, earthquakes, the killing of Christians, etc...

So....what we are seeing today IS to be expected, per scripture.


But....

When Satan is unbound, we will see, for a brief period, 'great affliction, such as has not happened from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be.'

Everything going on in the world today has been seen played-out in various forms for thousands of years.


Clearly, any student of scripture can see that Satan is bound today.

Study your scriptures, and thank God that Satan is currently bound!

I too believe that Satan is the abomination of desolation, I don't think I've heard anyone else say that in here. Many seem to believe it's a natural man.

If you believe that Satan is the abomination of desolation, then what do you believe Jesus means when he says this? (below) I'm just wondering how you see it? Thanks

Matthew 24

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

 

[glorydaz]

I see you too have left out the verses I've quoted from Paul? They show us that Satan isn't bound, I thought he is the apostle that you follow?

You don't see much, do you? Apple addressed those verses. I thought you knew how to read.

And as for this verse that you have quoted: John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

If the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life is not of the father but of the world, then Jesus isn't the God of this world. Satan is, because those things come from him.

No, those things do not come from satan. The lust of the flesh comes from our flesh wanting something, the lust of the eyes comes from our eyes seeing something we want, and the pride of life comes from our own EGO. Satan only uses God's Law to increase the draw of the forbidden fruits in this world. He a deceiver. A liar. That's all he has going for him. A god in his own mind and the minds of those who fall for his lies.

Jesus said this

John 17

They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 8

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world

John 14

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

If Jesus is not of this world, then he is not the God of this world,

Jesus is God and Creator of all things. Funny how you're saying He's not of this world now. Perhaps you'd care to finally admit He is God...become flesh to dwell among us. I'll wait.

and if Satan is the prince of this world, then he is.

Prince and god are two different things.

This world and the flesh are his domain. Jesus came into the world to save us from Satan who has control of us before we hear the gospel and have a chance to see the light. And he has those of the world in chains of darkness. God is over everything, but he has given Satan the world and those who love the world are his, and the flesh is the dust that is the food that he lives off. Christ is the light of the world, but he's not of the world he comes to bring light into this world of darkness to save as many as well believe in him and truly follow him.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, he is the way out of the world. And he's come showed us the way. And through him by the power of the Holy Spirit, the power of darkness which is the prince this world can be put to death in our hearts and cast out. We have free will, love the world and live by the will of Satan, or love God and live by his will.

We can't have both, we can't love God and mammon.

The statements in yellow are figments of your imagination.

Satan does not dwell in the hearts of men. If you want to make things up, go to the threads where your cohorts hang out.

 

[glorydaz]

People who are in Christ, will not talk the way so many posters do as if they are representatives of Jesus.

Jesus never allow hateful talks.

He is prince of peace, LOVE.

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

That was to those who don't believe in Jesus, those who said that his gospel isn't for them, those who blaspheme God and go against his will, not for those who love and follow him and obey the gospel of God and obey his words and commandments.

Jesus was speaking those "hateful" words to hypocrites....which is what I was proving to Meshak. I speak to hypocrites as Jesus did. Those words appear hateful to those they're addressed to.

Those "serpents" Jesus was addressing claimed to obey the commandments too. They claimed to follow God. They denied Jesus was God exactly like you people do.

Which should tell you that not everyone falls for your claims. :chew:

 

[way 2 go]

We seem to be having a disconnect, here. I'm talking about satan being the "god of this world", and his ability to blind the minds of the unbelievers.

If you're saying satan has no power to blind, then I'm wondering how you interpret this verse.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​

you said:

If the god of this world blinds us, then he must have more power than the Gospel

which is a false syllogism.

and to answer your question the god of this world is satan

Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

 

[glorydaz]

Those verses don't answer my question. If the god of this world blinds us, then he must have more power than the Gospel....which none of us believe. So it has to be he's given indirect credit somehow. Sin, for instance.

you said:


which is a false syllogism.

And this is why I said we have a disconnect. An indirect" connection, for which he gets credit.

and to answer your question the god of this world is satan

Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Again, ruler and prince are not the same as "god", and the word in 2 Cor. 4:4 is Theos, as Apple said.

If satan has been "judged" at the cross, why would he still be considered the "god of this world"?

I'm not saying you're wrong, way 2 go, but it does need to be explored, IMO. When the judges in Israel were called "gods", it was because they spoke in the place of God. Satan certainly doesn't.

John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;​

 

[Apple7]

And Paul speaks of the "restrainer". I believe that restrainer is the church (will be taken in the rapture), ie. the Holy Spirit. What do you think?

2 Thess. 2:6-7 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.​

I believe that you are referring to the word 'katechon', which is a verb, and is best rendered as 'binding'...And you know that which is binding him for now, to be revealed in his appointed time. For The Hidden, The Lawless is already working, only he is bound at present, taken out of the way, until he comes out of the midst.

 

[Apple7]

I know why you said it.

That doesn't give you license to drag everything written in as a proof text of it.

Actually, it is a proof text for other scriptures which are exquisitely clear that Satan is bound.

Time to change your mindset...

 

[glorydaz]

I believe that you are referring to the word 'katechon', which is a verb, and is best rendered as 'binding'...And you know that which is binding him for now, to be revealed in his appointed time. For The Hidden, The Lawless is already working, only he is bound at present, taken out of the way, until he comes out of the midst.

There is so much there in that second chapter of 2 Thess., that we almost need another thread on it. But, there has to be a big clue in there. I need to look closer.

 

[Apple7]

I see you've skipped all the verses I quoted from Paul that show us that Satan isn't bound?

None of your passages show that Satan is freely roaming planet earth, after The Cross.

 

[Apple7]

Which verse are you referring to when you say Satan is bound? Can you quote it please? Thanks

The Lawless One is bound now ‘katechon’ (present tense), but will be revealed ‘apokalyphthēsetai’ (future action) 2 Thes 2.6 – 8

 

[Apple7]

I too believe that Satan is the abomination of desolation, I don't think I've heard anyone else say that in here. Many seem to believe it's a natural man.

Satan goes by many names and titles...we are in agreement here...

If you believe that Satan is the abomination of desolation, then what do you believe Jesus means when he says this? (below) I'm just wondering how you see it? Thanks

Matthew 24

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Jesus is referencing Dan 9, of which, appears to parallel legions of other scriptures which proclaim the release of Satan upon the world at the end of time...

 

[Apple7]

There is so much there in that second chapter of 2 Thess., that we almost need another thread on it. But, there has to be a big clue in there. I need to look closer.

Agreed....it is deserving of a full blown exegesis in order to dig out all the gold nuggets...

 

[way 2 go]

And this is why I said we have a disconnect. An indirect" connection, for which he gets credit.

satan is responsible to different degrees for blinding people

Again, ruler and prince are not the same as "god", and the word in 2 Cor. 4:4 is Theos, as Apple said.

are you saying satan never posses as a god?

do we throw out this commandment since there really is no other gods?

Exo_20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

If satan has been "judged" at the cross, why would he still be considered the "god of this world"?

still considered the "god of this world" because he is
Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying you're wrong, way 2 go, but it does need to be explored, IMO. When the judges in Israel were called "gods", it was because they spoke in the place of God. Satan certainly doesn't.

John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;​

do you have God being referred to as "God of this age" or temporarily God in another verse?

 

[glorydaz]

satan is responsible to different degrees for blinding people

How exactly?

are you saying satan never posses as a god?

In what way?

do we throw out this commandment since there really is no other gods?

Exo_20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

People make gods of the moon, money, golden calves.

still considered the "god of this world" because he is
Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.

I think Paul is encouraging them to trust God will soon give them the complete victory over those who are deceiving the hearts of the simple that he's speaking of here. The evil in general.

Satan certainly is the father of evil and of lies. In all of Romans, Satan is mentioned this one time at the end of the book....not with fear or dread but with a sureness of his demise.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.​

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I don't know when that might be speaking of chronologically. It's been years since I studied Revelation.

do you have God being referred to as "God of this age" or temporarily God in another verse?

No, but there isn't another verse that refers to satan as a god, either. The Judges were called gods because they spoke for God, and Jesus certainly did come to speak for God, didn't He?

 

[marhig]

The Lawless One is bound now ‘katechon’ (present tense), but will be revealed ‘apokalyphthēsetai’ (future action) 2 Thes 2.6 – 8

Hi Apple, thanks for the verses. I see those verses as yes a future action but also something present too. In other words, people will have the chance to see the day of the Lord, that's future, some haven't seen it yet until they hear the gospel of truth. But when that day comes to our own hearts and we have a chance to know God, then that is present and we then have a chance to walk in the day.

Many don't know evil is present with them, they don't see Satan, they just think it's human nature, but Satan causes the evil in the world, and God overcomes his evil with good when he is in our hearts. God within us shows us that evil is present with us and that it is not just everywhere else and in others only, but it is also within our own selves something we don't see when we are in darkness, we think we are good and nice, but God shows us that we're not. When the light shines in our hearts, and our hearts are opened and we receive understanding through progressive Revelation as we live by the will of God, and God also he shows us our own sins within, and teaches us that we are to fight against sin and the wickedness of the world, once we belong to him, and we overcome by the love of Christ within our hearts, he is the only way, the way is through Christ by the power of the Spirit and the way is love and God's love is in the heart and lives of those who truly follow Christ.

I'm not saying that Satan makes us do evil, we do that because our hearts are wrong, and we love our flesh first until the Spirit changes our hearts, then we should be loving God before ourselves and putting our lives last. Satan is our stumbling block, the tempter, the adversary and he is out to try and make us fall, he has the world, he's rocking them in his arms as they destroy each other, and he's out to try devour God's people, to make them desolate and he is an abomination before the living God. But if God is with us, then he can't get in, unless we let our lusts overcome us. He who is in us is stronger than he who is in the world. But we have to remain in God's goodness and live by his will and then he will never leave us.

Also, where does it say in those verses that Satan was bound at the cross? Thanks

 

[marhig]

You don't see much, do you? Apple addressed those verses. I thought you knew how to read.



No, those things do not come from satan. The lust of the flesh comes from our flesh wanting something, the lust of the eyes comes from our eyes seeing something we want, and the pride of life comes from our own EGO. Satan only uses God's Law to increase the draw of the forbidden fruits in this world. He a deceiver. A liar. That's all he has going for him. A god in his own mind and the minds of those who fall for his lies.



Jesus is God and Creator of all things. Funny how you're saying He's not of this world now. Perhaps you'd care to finally admit He is God...become flesh to dwell among us. I'll wait.





Prince and god are two different things.




The statements in yellow are figments of your imagination.

Satan does not dwell in the hearts of men. If you want to make things up, go to the threads where your cohorts hang out.

Really? Well I didn't see either of you address those verses, and Paul makes it quite clear, that Satan is loose and free. And how can he be a deceiver and a liar if he was bound at the cross?