2 Cor 4.4 (Jesus, The God of this age!)

marhig

Well-known member
Jesus was speaking those "hateful" words to hypocrites....which is what I was proving to Meshak. I speak to hypocrites as Jesus did. Those words appear hateful to those they're addressed to.

Those "serpents" Jesus was addressing claimed to obey the commandments too. They claimed to follow God. They denied Jesus was God exactly like you people do.

Which should tell you that not everyone falls for your claims. :chew:
The hypocrites are those who say that they believe in God and say that they love him, but don't live by his will!

Just like the Pharisees at the time of Jesus. Those who put their flesh before God. They look the part, but inside they put themselves first! Those who truly belong to God put themselves last and God first and they don't put anyone before him including their own life and they leave behind the ways of the world and put their trust in God.

Matthew 19

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Those who truly belong to God put themselves last and God first and they don't put anyone before him including their own life and they leave behind the ways of the world and put their trust in God.

Yes, His followers will overcome the world:)
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
You're NOT a Christian, so why worry about being 'offended'...?

Further, scripture supports my interpretation of this passage.

If you disagree, then speak to scripture to buttress your worldview....or admit that you cannot...

I said
I think your falling short with your assumptions.
[2Co 4:2-4
2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

[2Co 11:14-15
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
[2Th 2:4-5
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
 

KingdomRose

New member
People are still giving this thread any attention???? Let it go, so it can fade away! It is one of the most ridiculous ideas that I have heard in some years.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Except.....this verse still bothers me.

2 Corinthians 4:4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​


What is it, do you think, that actually blinds the minds of them which believe not?

How is it that the "god of this world" can compete with the POWER of God (Gospel)?
Their believing not allows the god of this world to blind their minds. They believe not that the gospel of Christ is the power of God. In short, they "believe not" and are blinded. Simple stuff, sister.

The god of this world is at work today using a corrupted word of God (many perversions) and adds works to the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) which requires none of ours (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV). There is his corrupting minds from the simplicity that is in Christ (2 Corinthians 11:3-4).
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Their believing not allows the god of this world to blind their minds. They believe not that the gospel of Christ is the power of God. In short, they "believe not" and are blinded. Simple stuff, sister.

The god of this world is at work today using a corrupted word of God (many perversions) and adds works to the gospel of our salvation which requires none of ours. There is his corrupting minds from the simplicity that is in Christ (2 Corinthians 11:3-4).

I understand that, but there is much more there. I'm looking to go deeper into that particular text, because it does say the "god of this world" does the blinding. I also find it interesting that Paul is bringing up how the Jews are blinded....the veil remains. And, of course we know, that the blinding will last until the time of the gentiles be fulfilled.

As far as adding works ie obedience and the commandments, that IS what the other apostles are preaching. So, satan can't get the credit for that. We see Paul addressing this in the previous chapter, and Isaiah even prophesied it would happen.

2 Cor. 3:14-16 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.​

We see it addressed here, as well.

Matt. 13:14-15 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.​

And it's the Lord that does the blinding....

Isaiah 6:9-10 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.​
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
The hypocrites are those who say that they believe in God and say that they love him, but don't live by his will!

The hypocrites, the pharisees of Jesus' day, claimed to love God, but they denied Him when He came to dwell among them. They crucified the Lord of Glory. Just like you guys. :wave:
 

Apple7

New member
Hi Apple, thanks for the verses. I see those verses as yes a future action but also something present too. In other words, people will have the chance to see the day of the Lord, that's future, some haven't seen it yet until they hear the gospel of truth. But when that day comes to our own hearts and we have a chance to know God, then that is present and we then have a chance to walk in the day.

Many don't know evil is present with them, they don't see Satan, they just think it's human nature, but Satan causes the evil in the world, and God overcomes his evil with good when he is in our hearts. God within us shows us that evil is present with us and that it is not just everywhere else and in others only, but it is also within our own selves something we don't see when we are in darkness, we think we are good and nice, but God shows us that we're not. When the light shines in our hearts, and our hearts are opened and we receive understanding through progressive Revelation as we live by the will of God, and God also he shows us our own sins within, and teaches us that we are to fight against sin and the wickedness of the world, once we belong to him, and we overcome by the love of Christ within our hearts, he is the only way, the way is through Christ by the power of the Spirit and the way is love and God's love is in the heart and lives of those who truly follow Christ.

I'm not saying that Satan makes us do evil, we do that because our hearts are wrong, and we love our flesh first until the Spirit changes our hearts, then we should be loving God before ourselves and putting our lives last. Satan is our stumbling block, the tempter, the adversary and he is out to try and make us fall, he has the world, he's rocking them in his arms as they destroy each other, and he's out to try devour God's people, to make them desolate and he is an abomination before the living God. But if God is with us, then he can't get in, unless we let our lusts overcome us. He who is in us is stronger than he who is in the world. But we have to remain in God's goodness and live by his will and then he will never leave us.

Also, where does it say in those verses that Satan was bound at the cross? Thanks


There are numerous independent creation passages contained within scripture that parallel the Gen narrative.

A close examination of some of these creation ex-nihilo passages informs us that evil was inherently woven into creation, as if the creation of the physical Universe was intended as a battle ground for conquering the devil, evil, sin....of which, makes perfect sense with the passages that mention Satan being cast out of Heaven (spiritual) onto a physical earth.

Thus...the war that began in the spiritual, is going to be completed in the physical realm.

We are in battle, yes...but not directly with Satan at this time (thankfully). Satan's 'power' is in the free-ranging demons. There are absolutely no Post-Cross scriptures showing that Satan possessed anyone...but, there are several Pre-Cross ones.


Col 2.13 – 15 Satan Bound at The Cross

και υμας νεκρους οντας τοις παραπτωμασιν και τη ακροβυστια της σαρκος υμων συνεζωοποιησεν υμας συν αυτω χαρισαμενος ημιν παντα τα παραπτωματα εξαλειψας το καθ ημων χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν ο ην υπεναντιον ημιν και αυτο ηρκεν εκ του μεσου προσηλωσας αυτο τω σταυρω απεκδυσαμενος τας αρχας και τας εξουσιας εδειγματισεν εν παρρησια θριαμβευσας αυτους εν αυτω

kai hymas nekrous ontas en tois paraptōmasin kai tē akrobystia tēs sarkos hymōn synezōopoiēsen hymas syn auto charisamenos hemin panta ta paraptōmata exaleipsas to kath' hēmōn cheirographon tois dogmasin ho ēn hypenantion hemin kai auto ērken ek tou mesou prosēlōsas auto tō staurō apekdysamenos tas archas kai tas exousias edeigmatisen en parrēsia thriambeusas autos en autō

And you, being dead in the transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the transgressions, having blotted out the handwritten bond in the decrees against us, which was an adversary to us, and He has taken him out of the way, having nailed him to The Cross; having stripped of authority the rulers and the powers, He made a show of them in public, triumphing over them in Him.

Here is the rational for this passage pertaining to Satan:

• The closest preceding nominative (subject) word to ‘He has taken him out of the way’ is the word ‘hypenantion’, rendered as ‘adversary’.
• ‘Adversary’ is singular.
• The only other inflection of this word, in the entire NT, is in the plural term ‘hypenantious’ and is used in Heb 10.27 in the context of a fiery judgment for the ‘adversaries’.
• Clearly, the singular ‘hypenantion’ is Satan; and the plural ‘adversaries’ are the demons.
• The singular neuter personal pronoun ‘auto’ which follows it, can, and does, apply to ‘him’.
• Juxtaposed to this is the conquering of evil in in the statements of disarming ‘the rulers and the powers’, which are evil spirits.
• This public display, at The Cross, is referred to using the term ‘thriambeusas’, triumphing, which carries the meaning, ‘I lead one as my prisoner in a triumphant procession’.
• Clearly, and unmistakably, the reader is informed that Satan was bound as a prisoner at The Cross.



Hope this helps...
 

Apple7

New member
I said
I think your falling short with your assumptions.
[2Co 4:2-4
2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

[2Co 11:14-15
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
[2Th 2:4-5
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.


Satan cannot make himself God...he can only aspire to be God.

Ezekiel 28 makes this clear.

2 Cor 4.4 is a clear declaration of God and His authority to harden hearts...just like Isaiah claims about Jesus Christ.....NEVER regarding Satan!

Its elementary....
 
Last edited:

glorydaz

Well-known member
Interesting.... speaking of this dispensation of the Gospel of Grace.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

2 Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;​

The light of the glorious Gospel is the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Those who reject Jesus Christ as the true God seem to be those who are blinded.


2 Cor. 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Cor. 4:5-6 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
 

marhig

Well-known member
There are numerous independent creation passages contained within scripture that parallel the Gen narrative.

A close examination of some of these creation ex-nihilo passages informs us that evil was inherently woven into creation, as if the creation of the physical Universe was intended as a battle ground for conquering the devil, evil, sin....of which, makes perfect sense with the passages that mention Satan being cast out of Heaven (spiritual) onto a physical earth.

Thus...the war that began in the spiritual, is going to be completed in the physical realm.

We are in battle, yes...but not directly with Satan at this time (thankfully). Satan's 'power' is in the free-ranging demons. There are absolutely no Post-Cross scriptures showing that Satan possessed anyone...but, there are several Pre-Cross ones.


Col 2.13 – 15 Satan Bound at The Cross

και υμας νεκρους οντας τοις παραπτωμασιν και τη ακροβυστια της σαρκος υμων συνεζωοποιησεν υμας συν αυτω χαρισαμενος ημιν παντα τα παραπτωματα εξαλειψας το καθ ημων χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν ο ην υπεναντιον ημιν και αυτο ηρκεν εκ του μεσου προσηλωσας αυτο τω σταυρω απεκδυσαμενος τας αρχας και τας εξουσιας εδειγματισεν εν παρρησια θριαμβευσας αυτους εν αυτω

kai hymas nekrous ontas en tois paraptōmasin kai tē akrobystia tēs sarkos hymōn synezōopoiēsen hymas syn auto charisamenos hemin panta ta paraptōmata exaleipsas to kath' hēmōn cheirographon tois dogmasin ho ēn hypenantion hemin kai auto ērken ek tou mesou prosēlōsas auto tō staurō apekdysamenos tas archas kai tas exousias edeigmatisen en parrēsia thriambeusas autos en autō

And you, being dead in the transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the transgressions, having blotted out the handwritten bond in the decrees against us, which was an adversary to us, and He has taken him out of the way, having nailed him to The Cross; having stripped of authority the rulers and the powers, He made a show of them in public, triumphing over them in Him.

Here is the rational for this passage pertaining to Satan:

•The closest preceding nominative (subject) word to ‘He has taken him out of the way’ is the word ‘hypenantion’, rendered as ‘adversary’.
•‘Adversary’ is singular.
•The only other inflection of this word, in the entire NT, is in the plural term ‘hypenantious’ and is used in Heb 10.27 in the context of a fiery judgment for the ‘adversaries’.
•Clearly, the singular ‘hypenantion’ is Satan; and the plural ‘adversaries’ are the demons.
•The singular neuter personal pronoun ‘auto’ which follows it, can, and does, apply to ‘him’.
•Juxtaposed to this is the conquering of evil in in the statements of disarming ‘the rulers and the powers’, which are evil spirits.
•This public display, at The Cross, is referred to using the term ‘thriambeusas’, triumphing, which carries the meaning, ‘I lead one as my prisoner in a triumphant procession’.
•Clearly, and unmistakably, the reader is informed that Satan was bound as a prisoner at The Cross.



Hope this helps...



Hi again,

Colossians 2

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Above I've highlighted this "in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"

This circumcision is the circumcision of the heart, and once we are circumcised of the heart then we start to put off our sins of the flesh (start to turn away from them) and we start to die to self will, being ready to live by the will of God. We are denying sin, and baring our cross and in doing so we are following Jesus, just as he bore his cross that was set before him. This is the cross that Christ has nailed our sins to, as he works in our hearts through the Holy Spirit putting sin to death within us as we bare our cross and follow him. That's how Christ Jesus destroyed Satan, be denying him, he never let sin into his heart, he always lived by the will of God triumphing over Satan, overcoming him, and he never even sinned once, no matter what Satan put him through, even crucifixion. His heart was with God the whole time, overcoming evil with good making a show of the powers and principalities of darkness as he overcame them. Overcoming Satan as he bore his cross, overcoming with love.

And Christ Jesus helps those who belong to God those who are willing to lay down their lives to live by the will of the father. Christ helps us to overcome our flesh as he did, and takes away our sins, casting sin our of our hearts as we walk in the Spirit and walk in the light obeying God as we are taught the truth by the law that is written in our hearts and minds by Christ through the Spirit. Showing us our sins daily, and helping us to turn from them as we walk in the truth and light of God. The life of Christ being made manifest within us by the Spirit, helping us to overcome evil with good.

Jesus said the following, straight after Peter said "this shouldn't happen to you Lord" he said, get behind me Satan, Jesus could see Satan in Peter at that time tempting him, and he never let him in, and when he's in our hearts, he shows us when Satan is tempting us, and we are to deny him as he did and he strengthens us through the Spirit to overcome by giving us the light to see the truth. That is why he says the following

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

If we are willing to lose our lives for his sake then we are willing to die to self and live by the will of God so that Christ can live through us and save as many as will believe in him through his people. We can gain the whole world and lose our soul or we can lose our lives for Christs sake and be born anew and walk in the Spirit, being brought from death to life as we are raised with Christ by the power of the Spirit. Then we will be willing to deny ourselves, take up our cross and partake in the sufferings of Christ and truly follow him and live by the will of our father in heaven.
 

marhig

Well-known member
The hypocrites, the pharisees of Jesus' day, claimed to love God, but they denied Him when He came to dwell among them. They crucified the Lord of Glory. Just like you guys. :wave:
We crucify Christ afresh when we know God and know the truth, live by the lusts of the flesh and not by the will of God!
 

marhig

Well-known member
Agreed..KR is a member of the walking dead....just fulfilling a number...
So you have gone as low as the rest in judging others too?

The walking dead are those who live by the lusts of their flesh, who put their lives and the love of this world before God when they know the truth. They think they are saved, but they are dead to God and dead in their sins wallowing in the mire! Wells without water!
 

marhig

Well-known member
Satan was able to offer Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, thus he is the God of this world. But Jesus isn't interested in the kingdoms of the world, nor are those who belong to him. Jesus is only interested in the kingdom of heaven, because he's not of this world. And those who are risen with him are not of this world either, and they aren't interested in the ways of the world , but rather they are interested in the kingdom of heaven and living by the will of God. He who is in those who belong to Christ, is stronger than he who is in the world, and he will lift us up so that Satan can't touch our hearts and we will have no interest in the kingdoms of the world because Christ who is in us will help us to deny Satan the prince of this world, the power of darkness.
 

Apple7

New member
So you have gone as low as the rest in judging others too?

The walking dead are those who live by the lusts of their flesh, who put their lives and the love of this world before God when they know the truth. They think they are saved, but they are dead to God and dead in their sins wallowing in the mire! Wells without water!


And this is the witness: that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in His Son. The one having the Son has life. The one not having the Son of God does not have life. 1John 5.11-12

Too bad the 'Witness' in Jehovah Witness missed passages like this.

JW's don't have The Son.

Therefore, JW's don't have eternal life.

Simple as it gets...
 

Apple7

New member
Satan was able to offer Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, thus he is the God of this world. But Jesus isn't interested in the kingdoms of the world, nor are those who belong to him. Jesus is only interested in the kingdom of heaven, because he's not of this world. And those who are risen with him are not of this world either, and they aren't interested in the ways of the world , but rather they are interested in the kingdom of heaven and living by the will of God. He who is in those who belong to Christ, is stronger than he who is in the world, and he will lift us up so that Satan can't touch our hearts and we will have no interest in the kingdoms of the world because Christ who is in us will help us to deny Satan the prince of this world, the power of darkness.

Wrong.

First of all, the term 'Theos' is NEVER used in reference to Satan's status.

Anywhere.

Satan can aspire to be 'Theos', but he can never attain it.

The example that you provided is, once again, Pre-Cross scripture in which Satan has NOT yet been bound, and, even then, he is only referred to as 'ruler'.

Time that you stopped denying what Christ did for you upon The Cross, and then turning around and heaping undeserved praises and power upon The Devil.
 

marhig

Well-known member
And this is the witness: that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in His Son. The one having the Son has life. The one not having the Son of God does not have life. 1John 5.11-12

Too bad the 'Witness' in Jehovah Witness missed passages like this.

JW's don't have The Son.

Therefore, JW's don't have eternal life.

Simple as it gets...

You can't judge that about anyone, you don't know their heart. There will be good and bad in every denomination. You can't judge a whole group of people like that.

People have a tendency to say, ah you believe like me so you're ok and your saved and belong to God but they (i.e. JWs) don't belong to him, because they don't believe like us. Yet those you think are ok, may have very wrong hearts before God, and those who you have judged, may be living right before him.

We can't judge others like that, I believe that we are to speak the truth and God will judge. I would be too afraid before God to condemn others like many do here.

Those who belong to Christ, are those who hear the word and believe, repent and have faith, and through faith they turn from sin and live by the will of God daily, and as they do so, God will give them the strength to overcome through Christ, by the power of the Spirit.
 
Top