2 Cor 4.4 (Jesus, The God of this age!)

marhig

Well-known member
Wrong.

First of all, the term 'Theos' is NEVER used in reference to Satan's status.

Anywhere.

Satan can aspire to be 'Theos', but he can never attain it.

The example that you provided is, once again, Pre-Cross scripture in which Satan has NOT yet been bound, and, even then, he is only referred to as 'ruler'.

Time that you stopped denying what Christ did for you upon The Cross, and then turning around and heaping undeserved praises and power upon The Devil.
Jesus saved me by the power of the gospel, by the word of God through faith by the grace of God. Not by being murdered by wicked men and by the power of darkness. (Satan)

Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2, that they pleased not God in killing Jesus, if they pleased not God, then it was wrong and sinful to kill him. Jesus even said to pilate, those who handed me over to you have committed the greater sin, so it was a sin to murder Jesus. It's wrong to glorify that cross, we should glorify God and Christ by denying ourselves and baring our cross and truly follow Christ and letting the life of Christ and the love of God shine through us into this world of darkness bringing the light to others. The true cross is the cross that Jesus bore and the blood is his life, and thats the cross and blood, that we are saved through, not the natural one.

Satan murdered Jesus not God, and God strengthened him to bare it, because Jesus had to bare whatever was set before him and deny sin, and overcome Satan, including being crucified and he overcame Satan with the love of God. Bringing love in the place of evil. Bringing love and not revenge, with father forgive them for they know not what they do. Jesus came by love, mercy and forgiveness and he brought us a new and living way, and those who truly follow him live by this new way, because he is the way, the truth and the life, and his way is the only way to the father.

Satan has the power over this world of flesh and lust, he can only bruise the heal he can't go any higher than the earth, he's crawling on his belly through the dust which is the flesh and those who belong to him live by the lusts of the flesh and not by the will of God.

Satan is certainty loose, he is the adversary and the stumblingblock going against God and tempting us daily to try to make us fall. But if God is with us, he will show us Satan and show us our sins and help us to overcome through Christ.

Jesus said, have no fear for I have overcome the world, and if we have true faith, then he can help us to overcome too.
 
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meshak

BANNED
Banned
We crucify Christ afresh when we know God and know the truth, live by the lusts of the flesh and not by the will of God!

Jesus does not approve of gang attack or judge other's salvation to His followers. It is Christianity 101.

Judging others' salvation is practiced in many many churches. "I am saved" is part of it.
 

Apple7

New member
You can't judge that about anyone, you don't know their heart. There will be good and bad in every denomination. You can't judge a whole group of people like that.

People have a tendency to say, ah you believe like me so you're ok and your saved and belong to God but they (i.e. JWs) don't belong to him, because they don't believe like us. Yet those you think are ok, may have very wrong hearts before God, and those who you have judged, may be living right before him.

We can't judge others like that, I believe that we are to speak the truth and God will judge. I would be too afraid before God to condemn others like many do here.

Those who belong to Christ, are those who hear the word and believe, repent and have faith, and through faith they turn from sin and live by the will of God daily, and as they do so, God will give them the strength to overcome through Christ, by the power of the Spirit.


Judgment is not forbidden.

Life is too short not to call a spade a spade.
 

Apple7

New member
Jesus saved me by the power of the gospel, by the word of God through faith by the grace of God. Not by being murdered by wicked men and by the power of darkness. (Satan)

Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2, that they pleased not God in killing Jesus, if they pleased not God, then it was wrong and sinful to kill him. Jesus even said to pilate, those who handed me over to you have committed the greater sin, so it was a sin to murder Jesus. It's wrong to glorify that cross, we should glorify God and Christ by denying ourselves and baring our cross and truly follow Christ and letting the life of Christ and the love of God shine through us into this world of darkness bringing the light to others. The true cross is the cross that Jesus bore and the blood is his life, and thats the cross and blood, that we are saved through, not the natural one.

Satan murdered Jesus not God, and God strengthened him to bare it, because Jesus had to bare whatever was set before him and deny sin, and overcome Satan, including being crucified and he overcame Satan with the love of God. Bringing love in the place of evil. Bringing love and not revenge wiith father forgive them for they know not what they do. Jesus came by love, mercy and forgiveness and he brought us a new and living way, and those who truly follow him live by this new way, because he is the way, the truth and the life, and his way is the only way to the father.

Satan has the power over this world of flesh and lust, he can only bruise the heal he can't go any higher than the earth he's crawling on his belly through the dust which of the flesh and those who belong to him live by the lusts of the flesh and not by the will of God.

Satan is certainty loose, he is the adversary and the stumblingblock going against God and tempting us daily to try to make us fall. But if God is with us, he will show us Satan and show us our sins and help us to overcome through Christ.

Jesus said, have no fear for I have overcome the world, and if we have true faith, then he can help us to overcome too.


Scripture maintains that The Jews murdered Jesus.

Talk to scripture that you feel supports your worldview...
 

Apple7

New member
Jesus does not approve of gang attack or judge other's salvation to His followers. It is Christianity 101.

Judging others' salvation is practiced in many many churches. "I am saved" is part of it.

Jesus had no problem forcefully rebuking those on the wrong path.

Take those rose-colored glasses off...
 

marhig

Well-known member
Judgment is not forbidden.

Life is too short not to call a spade a spade.
We judge by the word of God, not through our flesh. And God knows who has heard the truth and has abided by it or denied him and Christ by not living by the truth.

Those who truly believe are doers of the word and not hearers only.

True believing is love in action not just saying "I believe and I'm saved" you will know who is being saved because the life of Christ will shine through them, and they will be baring fruit as they walk in the Spirit and live by the will of God.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Scripture maintains that The Jews murdered Jesus.

Talk to scripture that you feel supports your worldview...
Scripture does maintain that the Jews murdered Jesus, but Jesus also said that they do the the works of their father the devil and it is their hour and the power of darkness, God is not darkness, there is no darkness in God at all, he is light. Don't you believe that?
 

marhig

Well-known member
Jesus had no problem forcefully rebuking those on the wrong path.

Take those rose-colored glasses off...
Those on the wrong path are those who who say they love God and put their flesh before him, like the Pharisees. Jesus is not talking to those who live by the will of God, but those who go against God, and those who go against God are those who love the world and flesh.

And you don't know the heart of others to know who is and who isn't truly living by the will of God, just because people agree with you, doesn't mean they are living right before God. Only God can know their hearts.
 

Apple7

New member
Scripture does maintain that the Jews murdered Jesus, but Jesus also said that they do the the works of their father the devil and it is their hour and the power of darkness, God is not darkness, there is no darkness in God at all, he is light. Don't you believe that?

Can you please show us scripture that states that Satan murdered Jesus, like you claimed?
 

Apple7

New member
Those on the wrong path are those who who say they love God and put their flesh before him, like the Pharisees. Jesus is not talking to those who live by the will of God, but those who go against God, and those who go against God are those who love the world and flesh.

And you don't know the heart of others to know who is and who isn't truly living by the will of God, just because people agree with you, doesn't mean they are living right before God. Only God can know their hearts.

Then, accordingly, KingdomRose is living 'right before God', when she flatly rejects Jesus' divinity.

Nice...
 

marhig

Well-known member
Then, accordingly, KingdomRose is living 'right before God', when she flatly rejects Jesus' divinity.

Nice...
And she speaks the truth, Jesus isn't God. Jesus is the son of God. Jesus clearly says that the father is the only true God and that the father is his God!

And we are told in the Bible that we are to believe that Jesus is the son of God to be saved, not that Jesus is God. And we are judged on how we judge others!
 

marhig

Well-known member
Can you please show us scripture that states that Satan murdered Jesus, like you claimed?
John 8

I know that ye are Abraham's seed; BUT YOU SEEK TO KILL ME, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: AND YOU DO THAT WHICH YOU HAVE SEEN WITH YOUR FATHER.

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. BUT NOW YOU SEEK TO KILL ME, A MAN WHO HAS TOLD YOU THE TRUTH, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. YE DO THE DEEDS OF YOUR FATHER. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. YE ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, AND THE LUSTS OF YOUR FATHER YOU WILL DO. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 7

Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Luke 22:52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves? When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

Acts 2

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Taken by wicked hands and slain, Satan is wicked not God

Acts 6

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; OF WHOM YOU HAVE NOW BEEN BETRAYERS AND MURDERERS.

1 Thessalonians 2

For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, and are contrary to all men:

They pleased not God, so it was wrong to kill Jesus!

Revelation 11

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called SODOM AND EGYPT WHERE OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.

And then there is the parable of the wicked husbandmen, this is about Jesus, how they beat and killed the prophets, so he sent his son in the hope that they would reverence him, but they killed him and God took the vineyard from them and give it to others. God wanted them to reverence Jesus but they murdered him. But God foreknew what they would do, and he foretold it through the prophets, and Jesus was willing to go through the suffering to bare witness to the truth. That's why he came into this world, to bare witness to the truth and those who are of the truth hear his voice and follow him and live by the will of God and they are being saved from this world and the ways of Satan and if they endure to the end and keep their faith then they have the hope of eternal salvation. As Jesus said to Peter, Satan wants to sift you as wheat, but I have prayed to my father for you. Satan can't touch those who belong to God unless we put our flesh before God. And Satan will tempt us and try to get us, but we have Christ with us and if we overcome the fiery trials set before us, we will become stronger in God.

We are saved by the grace of God through faith, not by Jesus being crucified. Being saved by his blood is being saved by his life within us as being washed clean of our sins by his life through the power of the Spirit.

You can call me what you want, but I know in my heart that it's the truth and that God didn't need Jesus to be murdered but wicked men to save us, and God himself certainly didn't need to come into flesh and be crucified by wicked men to save us from his own wrath. That makes no sense whatsoever.

God sent Jesus to be to be a living sacrifice, to lay down his life to bare witness to the truth, and to suffer whatsoever Satan did to him through wicked men and bring forth the love of God to overcome his evil. And save as many as would hear the word of God and truly believe in the gospel of truth and live by the will of God through Christ by the Spirit.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
You can't judge that about anyone, you don't know their heart. There will be good and bad in every denomination. You can't judge a whole group of people like that.

People have a tendency to say, ah you believe like me so you're ok and your saved and belong to God but they (i.e. JWs) don't belong to him, because they don't believe like us. Yet those you think are ok, may have very wrong hearts before God, and those who you have judged, may be living right before him.

We can't judge others like that, I believe that we are to speak the truth and God will judge. I would be too afraid before God to condemn others like many do here.

Those who belong to Christ, are those who hear the word and believe, repent and have faith, and through faith they turn from sin and live by the will of God daily, and as they do so, God will give them the strength to overcome through Christ, by the power of the Spirit.

We can judge if we are in the right path or not by what kind of group or organization we belong.

this is my perspective.
 

marhig

Well-known member
We can judge if we are in the right path or not by what kind of group or organization we belong.

this is my perspective.
I don't believe that I'm to judge another person, as in judge their heart or whether that are saved or not, or where they will go when they die. That's up to God to decide, but I am to judge if they speak the truth and whether to take it in or not, but I'm not to judge the person themselves. Some people have a good heart and don't know the truth, some people are wild to look at, but are soft hearted inside and accept the truth when they hear it, some look good in the outside, but when they hear the truth they are full of pride and look down on others and reject it thinking they are ok as they are, so only God can truly judge, and God will judge those who hear the word and reject the truth.

I believe that we judge by the word of God. Jesus's judgement was just because the word he spoke was the truth, and he only spoke what the father gave him to speak so he only spoke the word of God, and that's what we are judged on. What we do when we hear the truth, whether we repent and obey and follow Jesus and live by the will of God, or whether we deny him because we love the world and carry on living by the lusts of the flesh.

It's easy to say I believe, but those who truly believe will obey the word of God and live by his will.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
I don't believe that I'm to judge another person, as in judge their heart or whether that are saved or not, or where they will go when they die.


I am not talking about judgement of salvation of anyone. I am talking about general idea when we talk to people to understand them.

I trust that JWs are in the right path as long as the theology is concerned.

In general, they strive to be godly. I have interacted and studies with them for a several months.

So I know them quite well in general.

I gave major several denominations the benefit of doubt too. I deeply involved with them and served them faithfully.

So I think I can discern where they are coming from.

We are showing the fruit of spirit in what we say and do. That's what I focused on when I was with those organized churches.
 
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