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NO NO NO!!! I did NOT say that there was no explicit teaching that salvation is a free gift! There is no explicit teaching that if someone doesn't understand that particular truth then they are unsaved. Yes, yes, of course! I've already told you several times that you establish that salvation...

My entire point is that it is not possible to make an affirmative case from the biblical material that someone isn't saved if they fail to realize that their salvation is a free gift. That isn't sufficient to PROVE that it isn't necessary but, since the bible is where we go to get our doctrine...

No, I'm wanting the opposite of the all inclusive list. Is it possible for a person to not believe that God exists and be saved? No! Therefore, it is on the list. Is it possible for a person to be saved without admitting guilt of sin and acknowledging the need to be saved? No! Therefore, it is...

I'm not discussing people who don't get saved, only those who do, but... Even less? Now that would be directly pertinent to the question at hand! It is a bit confusing though! You're here telling me that I haven't included enough and now you're telling me that I could have included even less...

That isn't my argument and you know it. This is desperation on your part. If you can't respond without lying about what I've said, then lets just agree to disagree and let it go.

@glorydaz, Please respond to the following.... Just pretend that YOU preached the gospel to someone. You preached it precisely the way you think it ought to be preached. You included every point I've listed and you included every other point that anyone might think is part of the gospel. You...

So how is any of that in conflict with the six points I've presented?

They were preaching it for monetary gain. How do you suppose that can be done without altering the gospel? There isn't any way. You would have to add something. My point is that it almost doesn't matter what is added in regard to whether it has the power to save people so long as certain details...

Paul's letters where written to believers (i.e. that isn't what "I say" as though it were a matter of opinion). That doesn't mean that no unbeliever was ever exposed to his writtings or that unbelievers can't read and understand Paul's letters. It means that Paul wrote his letters to believers...

That's not true. First of all I never made any such claim but more directly, Paul was asked by the jailer how to be saved and we have to get the gospel of grace somewhere from his writings, right? Acts 16:25 But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners...

Glorydaz, I don't know who taught you such a thing but it could not be further from the truth. It isn't even close to being correct. I can't even comprehend how it is possible for anyone to teach such a thing. I am literally flabbergasted. I can't even think of what to say except... NO! Clete

That's exactly right. Exactly.

I flatly disagree. In fact, I KNOW that you are just simply wrong on this point. Paul was not the apostle to the Kingdom Jews and had agreed to let the Twelve minister to them and he most certainly was not teaching anyone how to be saved under ANY law. Good grief would Paul flip over in his...

No need to be snide. Remember the challenge was for you to show me where Paul was telling an unbeliever how to be saved where he explicitly tells the person that its a free gift. It was a rhetorical challenge anyway because I know that no such passage exists. That, by itself, doesn't prove my...

The book is there for all to read, glorydaz! The context isn't ambiguous or even debatable. Paul was NOT writing to unbelievers - period. It isn't a matter of opinion. It's perfectly clear who the book of Romans was written to. It was written to... Romans 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of...

None of that has anything to do with the gospel of grace except that Jesus both lived and died under the law. We are not saved because we follow the golden rule or the Ten Commandments or any other rule or set of rules. Oh yes it is! (This is literally why it is difficult to not think that...

Okay, then make the argument. It would be better if you made it over on that thread, but since we're this far into it here, I suppose it doesn't matter. Stupidity. Literal stupidity. The Pope is certainly NOT saved. No saved person could ever put on one of those ropes, much less allow himself...

Romans 3 is very clearly written to believers. He is not presenting that material to unbelievers. He's making the case that, as believers in Christ, we do not need the law because we aren't saved by what we do but by what we believe. Now, I'm not saying that it isn't great information for...

Paul was teaching that stuff to believers, not potential converts. Thus, your argument, once again, establishes the truth that grace is a gift but not that knowing that truth is needed to become saved.

Oh man! I was really thinking we had come to an agreement. I don't know where else to go. Let me tell you from experience. Loaned books are given away books. They seem to never come back.