Your opinion on God’s Law.

Jacob

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You are misunderstanding the quote. A man, a Jew, asked Jesus, another Jew, what "command" he should obey, since Jesus was clearly preaching beyond religious obedience and the man was confused. So in reply TO THIS MAN, Jesus said "I give you only one "command", to love God with all your heart, and your brothers as yourself". Hopefully, the man understood.

Jesus only used the term "command" because that's what the man was asking for. Jesus understood that the man couldn't grasp the concept of living by the spirit of love, because he had lived his whole life steeped in religious dogma, laws, and rules. The man couldn't comprehend how to live without the idea of some "divine command". So Jesus responded to the man, kindly, and gave him his "command".

But what Jesus told the man to do; to love, can't really be done as obedience to a command. It has to be done as a voluntary expression of the spirit.

Many here on TOL are like that man. They cannot conceive of a relationship with God that is not based on religion, and on obedience to religious dogmas and rules and laws. Sadly, they can't understand that love is not a form of obedience. And so they go around preaching obedience to their religion, and their religious laws, obsessively, think that this is obedience to and love of God. But are just blend men trying to lead other blind men into the dark. Because Jesus' message was a message of the spirit. Not a message of religious authority, dogmas, or laws.

Matthew 22:34-40 NASB - 34 But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together. 35 One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' 40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Mark 12:28-34 NASB - 28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?" 29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 31 "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these." 32 The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM; 33 AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34 When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions.

Luke 10:25-37 NASB - 25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 26 And He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" 27 And he answered, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." 28 And He said to him, "You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE." 29 But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" 30 Jesus replied and said, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. 31 "And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 "Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 "But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, 34 and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 "On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.' 36 "Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers' hands?" 37 And he said, "The one who showed mercy toward him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do the same."
 

Danoh

New member
You are misunderstanding the quote. A man, a Jew, asked Jesus, another Jew, what "command" he should obey, since Jesus was clearly preaching beyond religious obedience and the man was confused. So in reply TO THIS MAN, Jesus said "I give you only one "command", to love God with all your heart, and your brothers as yourself". Hopefully, the man understood.

Jesus only used the term "command" because that's what the man was asking for. Jesus understood that the man couldn't grasp the concept of living by the spirit of love, because he had lived his whole life steeped in religious dogma, laws, and rules. The man couldn't comprehend how to live without the idea of some "divine command". So Jesus responded to the man, kindly, and gave him his "command".

But what Jesus told the man to do; to love, can't really be done as obedience to a command. It has to be done as a voluntary expression of the spirit.

Many here on TOL are like that man. They cannot conceive of a relationship with God that is not based on religion, and on obedience to religious dogmas and rules and laws. Sadly, they can't understand that love is not a form of obedience. And so they go around preaching obedience to their religion, and their religious laws, obsessively, think that this is obedience to and love of God. But are just blend men trying to lead other blind men into the dark. Because Jesus' message was a message of the spirit. Not a message of religious authority, dogmas, or laws.

No.

You are reading Pauline Christianity into Messianic Judaism.

As the Lord will later reveal through the Apostle Paul "the law was added that the offense might abound" and "the strength is sin is the law."

Toward what end?

"...that sin might appear" what it is "sin."

In other words, the failure under the law that the law would set off, had as its' intended impact the effect of bringing them to a conscious awareness of indwelling sin, towards pointing their nation to God's provision one day - the Christ.

Read Matt. - John in light of Paul.

Don't read Paul into them.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound...

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

"Ye have heard it said...BUT I say unto you..."

One core aspect of Jesus' entire ministry to Israel had been the issue of making the Law even more burdensome - towards God's intent through that - The Cross' Victory over sin, to the glory of His Son by the Spirit in the hearts men!
 

PureX

Well-known member
People who worship their own imagined divine authority can't let go of the religious legalisms because it's through those religious legalisms that they derive their false sense of religious authority. It's why they worship scripture as if it were God. Because it's through their false idolization of scripture that they assign divine authority to themselves.

These people aren't Christians, because they don't really love God or their brothers. What they love is the idea of their own unassailable righteousness, as it's being derived from their false idolization of scripture and their obsession with it's imagined 'religious authority'. They are the modern equivalent of the Pharisees that were forever trying to mock and trip up Jesus, to enforce their own phony religious authority and superiority. Phony; because it was not based on the love of God or love for their fellow humans, but on their obsession with their own religious righteousness.
 

Jacob

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Christians love each other and others out of the love God has shown to them.

Romans 5:8 NASB - 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

1 John 4:11 NASB - 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

1 John 4:19 NASB - 19 We love, because He first loved us.
 

Choleric

New member
Salvation is of the Jews. The God of the Jews is the God to be worshipped, the only true God and therefore the God of the Gentiles as well being as there is only one God.

Yes, but that is not what Jesus was telling her. He said that salvation is "of the Jews". Once upon a time, in order to have salvation, you had to convert to Judaism and worship in Jerusalem. That is works based salvation. Yes, it was of grace, but only those that were Jewish and followed Jewish law, experienced grace.

The new covenant is Jewish, of Judaism. It is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. The expectation of the coming of the Messiah, Yeshua, was there and known. Now that He has come we have believers who are Jewish and believers who are not, we have Israel and the Gentiles, or Jew and Greek.

Just not in the Body of CHrist. In the BOC you are "neither Jew nor greek". That is in the bible verbatim. You can either believe it or get some "white out" and explain to God what He "meant" to say.
Salvation was never by the law. Worship of God has been by the law
.

Jesus told the woman that salvation was of the Jews. He did not say worship was. For that samartian to be saved, she would have had to convert to Judaism. Being samaritan was not it.

Some Gentiles observe more of the Law than required, and some have converted to Judaism, previously Christian or Christian only and now Jewish or both.

None of the law is required anymore. We are not under the law anymore. We have died, and law does not have dominion over dead people.
Christianity was originally a sect of Judaism. I don't know why some have a problem with Judaism, as it is the true faith, like true Christianity can be as well being of the same and in worship of the same God.

This is not true. Judaism as a religion is anti-christ. You cannot be a Christian and under judaism at the same time, as i have shown with ROmans 10:4 several times yet you ignore it every time.
A Christian can be Jew or Gentile/Greek

Only in the sense that you are Jew by race. IF you are a gentile who is a christian, you are not a jew. You cannot be blue and red, you are oneo r the other. THe bible is explicitly clear. You are either a Jew, or a gentile or a part of the church.

. If you look at the verse you quoted you can see that you are incorrect in your application, as one does not cease to be male or female a person just has equal status yet still fulfilling God given roles as a Christian, a member of the body of Christ the church.

Now you are twisting the verse. THe verse doesn 't say you cease to be male or female, it says you cease to be jewish. You just apparently don't like God's Word on this issue and you have made yourself the final authority.

Salvation was never by the Law, but it is of the Jews, and in Judaism and Israel we have the (past) coming of the new covenant in Yeshua the Messiah.

You could not be saved without being under the Judaic system. That is a work. TODay there is not system that is between God and man. Today Christ is our mediator. At one point, it was the priesthood that stood between God and man, and the veil, into which no man entered without blood.That day of atonement only coverned those who were under hte umbrella of judaism. THAt is works.

Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread are both Biblical. The Feast of Unleavened Bread is one of the three annual feasts and Passover is often spoken of in relation to it, sometimes equivalently. Today is the fourteenth of the first month, Passover. But the Passover meal or seder and the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (called Passover on most calendars) when it is eaten, are this upcoming evening. (The Feast of) Passover is sometimes the term used to refer to the entire seven day Feast of Unleavened Bread.

It was biblical for the jew only. it was introduced with the levitical system of priesthood and passed away when CHRist our "better priest" sat down at the right hand of the Father.

1 Corinthians 5:7 NASB - Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.

1 Corinthians 5:8 NASB - Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

THese verses prove my point. You should stop trying to bea fake jew and bea christian.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
 

Jacob

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Yes, but that is not what Jesus was telling her. He said that salvation is "of the Jews". Once upon a time, in order to have salvation, you had to convert to Judaism and worship in Jerusalem. That is works based salvation. Yes, it was of grace, but only those that were Jewish and followed Jewish law, experienced grace.
I believe you are not understanding this correctly.

John 4:22 NASB - 22 "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Just not in the Body of Christ. In the BOC you are "neither Jew nor greek". That is in the bible verbatim. You can either believe it or get some "white out" and explain to God what He "meant" to say.
Again, it is not true that in the body of Christ you are neither male nor female. You are interpreting incorrectly.
Jesus told the woman that salvation was of the Jews. He did not say worship was. For that samartian to be saved, she would have had to convert to Judaism. Being samaritan was not it.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. We should believe what Jesus said.
None of the law is required anymore. We are not under the law anymore. We have died, and law does not have dominion over dead people.
Yes, the law is still for today, even if you are theologically not under the law. I don't see another way to understand this subject.
This is not true. Judaism as a religion is anti-christ. You cannot be a Christian and under judaism at the same time, as i have shown with ROmans 10:4 several times yet you ignore it every time.
Judaism is where we have the expectation of Messiah, who is Yeshua (He came as promised). This is not anti-christ.
Only in the sense that you are Jew by race. If you are a gentile who is a christian, you are not a jew. You cannot be blue and red, you are oneo r the other. THe bible is explicitly clear. You are either a Jew, or a gentile or a part of the church.
I was born a Gentile. I have been circumcised. I am a Christian, by choice and by God's selection of me. I am Jewish by choice. I am a new covenant believer and I practice much of the old covenant. A person is not a Jew by race. Race, whatever race is, has nothing to do with it. I know about the human race, but people groups do not need to be divided up and called race. God has made us all unique and different, but this is nothing about race and does not paint a picture of negativity either.
Now you are twisting the verse. The verse doesn't say you cease to be male or female, it says you cease to be jewish. You just apparently don't like God's Word on this issue and you have made yourself the final authority.
Read it again. What is true about the existence of male and female in Christ is true about Jew and Greek or Jew and Gentile in Christ.
You could not be saved without being under the Judaic system. That is a work. Today there is not system that is between God and man. Today Christ is our mediator. At one point, it was the priesthood that stood between God and man, and the veil, into which no man entered without blood. That day of atonement only covered those who were under the umbrella of judaism. That is works.
Salvation is by faith whether you are Jew or Greek/Gentile/non-Jew. It always has been.
It was biblical for the jew only. it was introduced with the levitical system of priesthood and passed away when Christ our "better priest" sat down at the right hand of the Father.
You don't have to be a Jew for something to be Biblical.
These verses prove my point. You should stop trying to be a fake jew and be a christian.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
I am a Christian. There is nothing against being a Jew for anyone. There are many converts and proselytes. Do you believe the verse is about whether or not you were born a Jew? That is not what makes a person a Jew.
 

CherubRam

New member
Yes, but that is not what Jesus was telling her. He said that salvation is "of the Jews". Once upon a time, in order to have salvation, you had to convert to Judaism and worship in Jerusalem. That is works based salvation. Yes, it was of grace, but only those that were Jewish and followed Jewish law, experienced grace.



Just not in the Body of CHrist. In the BOC you are "neither Jew nor greek". That is in the bible verbatim. You can either believe it or get some "white out" and explain to God what He "meant" to say.
.

Jesus told the woman that salvation was of the Jews. He did not say worship was. For that samartian to be saved, she would have had to convert to Judaism. Being samaritan was not it.



None of the law is required anymore. We are not under the law anymore. We have died, and law does not have dominion over dead people.


This is not true. Judaism as a religion is anti-christ. You cannot be a Christian and under judaism at the same time, as i have shown with ROmans 10:4 several times yet you ignore it every time.


Only in the sense that you are Jew by race. IF you are a gentile who is a christian, you are not a jew. You cannot be blue and red, you are oneo r the other. THe bible is explicitly clear. You are either a Jew, or a gentile or a part of the church.



Now you are twisting the verse. THe verse doesn 't say you cease to be male or female, it says you cease to be jewish. You just apparently don't like God's Word on this issue and you have made yourself the final authority.



You could not be saved without being under the Judaic system. That is a work. TODay there is not system that is between God and man. Today Christ is our mediator. At one point, it was the priesthood that stood between God and man, and the veil, into which no man entered without blood.That day of atonement only coverned those who were under hte umbrella of judaism. THAt is works.



It was biblical for the jew only. it was introduced with the levitical system of priesthood and passed away when CHRist our "better priest" sat down at the right hand of the Father.



THese verses prove my point. You should stop trying to bea fake jew and bea christian.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

Crucible

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It's why they worship scripture as if it were God.

We don't 'worship' scripture. The scriptures are a gift from God with a primary purpose much like that of any other textbook. It is there for us to study and learn from, and because it is divinely inspired text, it is trustworthy and not subject to change.
 

Choleric

New member
I believe you are not understanding this correctly.

John 4:22 NASB - 22 "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Yes, salvation is of the Jews. She was saying, "we can worship God and find salvation in samaria too. Those Jews say we have to worship in Jerusalem and that you can't be saved without being a Jew." And Jesus agreed with her. salvations was only through the judaic system.

Again, it is not true that in the body of Christ you are neither male nor female. You are interpreting incorrectly.

YOu are interpreting it incorrectly. THe verse doesn't say anything about male or female. Why do you keep saying that, it isn't in the passage!!! You are too busy trying to figure out what GOd meant and you arent' spending enought time on what HE ACTUALLY SAID. He said YOU ARE NOT JEW OR GENTILE if you are in the BOC. Why can 't you deal with that very basic fact???

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. We should believe what Jesus said.

The accusation of the jew in that day was that true worship was throught the judaic system. The samaritans had broken away from jerusalem, had set up their own places of worship and they were outside of judaism. The Jews claimed that true worship and salvation only came through the judaic system God set up, the samaritans thought it didn't matter. When she asked Jesus what He thought, she was hoping He said "it doesn't really matter, as long as you are sincere and try to love GOd, you can be saved."

But instead Jesus affirmed the Jewish beliefs, that salvation was in fact only through judaism.

Yes, the law is still for today, even if you are theologically not under the law. I don't see another way to understand this subject.

Read Romans 7 again. If you get a traffic ticket today, you will have to pay a fine. If you die tomorrow, the law cannot follow you into thr grave and demand payment. The law of your state only has jurisdiction as long as you are alive. Once you die, the fine goes away because there is no one to pay it. THe law of your state highway only has jurisdiction over you as long as you are alive. All people alive, are under the jurisdiction of their state laws.

Once you are dead, the law cannot punish you any more. The law of moses does not have jurisdiction over me because I am dead. The law is still in effect, but only for people who have not died. SInce I have died, the law of moses does not have jurisdiction over me anymore. I am free to marry another.

Now I am under the "law of the spirit of liberty". A lot of the current laws are similar, I shoudl love my neighbor, and love God, I shouldn't steal or kill, or lie. The main difference is that the system of penalty is different. Under Moses' law, it was death and hell for law breakers. Under the "law of liberty in CHrist" it is chastisement for a son, even to the point of death, but I will still be saved (1 Cor 5) because I am not under the same system of penalty any more.

Judaism is where we have the expectation of Messiah, who is Yeshua (He came as promised). This is not anti-christ.

All unsaved jews are anti-christ. They have denied their savior, their messiah. They "have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge" (Rom 10:2).

I was born a Gentile. I have been circumcised. I am a Christian, by choice and by God's selection of me. I am Jewish by choice. I am a new covenant believer and I practice much of the old covenant. A person is not a Jew by race. Race, whatever race is, has nothing to do with it. I know about the human race, but people groups do not need to be divided up and called race. God has made us all unique and different, but this is nothing about race and does not paint a picture of negativity either.

This is wrong on so many levels. The Jewish race is anyone who has Jacob as their great grandfather. I don't understand how someone who claims to be a christian cannot understand the biblical concept of the jewish race. It is all over the OT.

It is certainly negative for those who were not jewish. This is again all over the bible.

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:


"according to the flesh" is talking about the race of Jew's. Sons of Jacob. This is bible 101.

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


This is why it was an advantage to be a jew, and not a samritan like the woman at the well. It was good to be a Jew, bad to be a gentile. Just read the OT.

You were either a part of the Jewish race, or you were a gentile. Even gentile proselytes couldn't go into the same places in the temple. They were "outsiders". God set it up that way.

Read it again. What is true about the existence of male and female in Christ is true about Jew and Greek or Jew and Gentile in Christ.

But again, it doesn't say anything about male and female. You are ignoring what the verse says, and inserting something it DOESN"T say in order to do so. What part of "neitehr Jew nor greek" do you not understand?

Salvation is by faith whether you are Jew or Greek/Gentile/non-Jew. It always has been.

False. Jesus told the woman at the well salvation was not through anything other than judaism. there was a priesthood that stood between God and man at one point. There was the "holy of holies" behind the veil that a priest had to enter into yearly to atone for the sins of the people. Unless you were a convert to judaism, that covering (atonement) didn't cover your sins. You were lost, just like Jesus told the woman at the well.

You don't have to be a Jew for something to be Biblical.

No, you just have to be a jew, under the law, for the levitical system to apply to you. It started with moses and ended with the cross.

I am a Christian.

Then you cannot be under judaism.

There is nothing against being a Jew for anyone.

Yes there is. PLease tell me what this verse means to you:

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
There are many converts and proselytes.

Yes, you are either a christian or jew or gentile according to the bible. You seem to think you know more than GOd does.
Do you believe the verse is about whether or not you were born a Jew?

If you were not born a Jew, you are not Jewish by race. I don't know why you have such trouble with this concept. Race is a pretty basic thing. Either you were a son of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or you were a Gentile. This is why God didn't want them inter-marrying with the non-jews.

That is not what makes a person a Jew.

You can be a jew by race, like you can be italian or chinese, or you can be an adherent to the religion of judaism. YOu cannot be an adherent to christianity and an adherent of judaism.

In one, you have Christ as your High Priest, Heb 4:14 in the other, you have a man, who has to offer sacrifice for himself Heb 5:3

In one you have Christ who died an rent the veil from the top down, Mark 15:38, in the other you have a religion that sewed the veil back up.

In one you have "one sacrifice for all sins" Heb 10:10. In the other you have a daily offering that can never take away sins. Heb 10:11

You should read Hebrews again and again until you see that Christ is better and exclusive of Judaism. There is nothing for a Christian in Judaism. God wants us to worhip in spirit and truth. You don't need the old law that you are dead to if you are saved.
 

Jacob

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Yes, salvation is of the Jews. She was saying, "we can worship God and find salvation in samaria too. Those Jews say we have to worship in Jerusalem and that you can't be saved without being a Jew." And Jesus agreed with her. salvations was only through the judaic system.
Jesus always spoke the truth, it wasn't about agreeing with whatever she was thinking.
YOu are interpreting it incorrectly. THe verse doesn't say anything about male or female. Why do you keep saying that, it isn't in the passage!!! You are too busy trying to figure out what GOd meant and you arent' spending enought time on what HE ACTUALLY SAID. He said YOU ARE NOT JEW OR GENTILE if you are in the BOC. Why can 't you deal with that very basic fact???
Are you talking about this verse? Why do you say it says nothing about male or female?

Galatians 3:28 NASB - 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
The accusation of the jew in that day was that true worship was throught the judaic system. The samaritans had broken away from jerusalem, had set up their own places of worship and they were outside of judaism. The Jews claimed that true worship and salvation only came through the judaic system God set up, the samaritans thought it didn't matter. When she asked Jesus what He thought, she was hoping He said "it doesn't really matter, as long as you are sincere and try to love GOd, you can be saved."

But instead Jesus affirmed the Jewish beliefs, that salvation was in fact only through judaism.

Read Romans 7 again. If you get a traffic ticket today, you will have to pay a fine. If you die tomorrow, the law cannot follow you into thr grave and demand payment. The law of your state only has jurisdiction as long as you are alive. Once you die, the fine goes away because there is no one to pay it. THe law of your state highway only has jurisdiction over you as long as you are alive. All people alive, are under the jurisdiction of their state laws.

Once you are dead, the law cannot punish you any more. The law of moses does not have jurisdiction over me because I am dead. The law is still in effect, but only for people who have not died. SInce I have died, the law of moses does not have jurisdiction over me anymore. I am free to marry another.
I'm not sure you are understanding this right or correctly. Read the scripture again.
Now I am under the "law of the spirit of liberty". A lot of the current laws are similar, I shoudl love my neighbor, and love God, I shouldn't steal or kill, or lie. The main difference is that the system of penalty is different. Under Moses' law, it was death and hell for law breakers. Under the "law of liberty in CHrist" it is chastisement for a son, even to the point of death, but I will still be saved (1 Cor 5) because I am not under the same system of penalty any more.

All unsaved jews are anti-christ. They have denied their savior, their messiah. They "have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge" (Rom 10:2).
Unsaved Jews are not in the body of Christ.
This is wrong on so many levels. The Jewish race is anyone who has Jacob as their great grandfather. I don't understand how someone who claims to be a christian cannot understand the biblical concept of the jewish race. It is all over the OT.
The word race is not in the Bible in the way you are trying to put it there. The word Jew is not a reference to race.
It is certainly negative for those who were not jewish. This is again all over the bible.

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:


"according to the flesh" is talking about the race of Jew's. Sons of Jacob. This is bible 101.

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

This is why it was an advantage to be a jew, and not a samritan like the woman at the well. It was good to be a Jew, bad to be a gentile. Just read the OT.

You were either a part of the Jewish race, or you were a gentile. Even gentile proselytes couldn't go into the same places in the temple. They were "outsiders". God set it up that way.

But again, it doesn't say anything about male and female. You are ignoring what the verse says, and inserting something it DOESN"T say in order to do so. What part of "neitehr Jew nor greek" do you not understand?

False. Jesus told the woman at the well salvation was not through anything other than judaism. there was a priesthood that stood between God and man at one point. There was the "holy of holies" behind the veil that a priest had to enter into yearly to atone for the sins of the people. Unless you were a convert to judaism, that covering (atonement) didn't cover your sins. You were lost, just like Jesus told the woman at the well.

No, you just have to be a jew, under the law, for the levitical system to apply to you. It started with moses and ended with the cross.

Then you cannot be under judaism.

Yes there is. PLease tell me what this verse means to you:

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Yes, you are either a christian or jew or gentile according to the bible. You seem to think you know more than GOd does.

If you were not born a Jew, you are not Jewish by race. I don't know why you have such trouble with this concept. Race is a pretty basic thing. Either you were a son of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or you were a Gentile. This is why God didn't want them inter-marrying with the non-jews.

You can be a jew by race, like you can be italian or chinese, or you can be an adherent to the religion of judaism. YOu cannot be an adherent to christianity and an adherent of judaism.

In one, you have Christ as your High Priest, Heb 4:14 in the other, you have a man, who has to offer sacrifice for himself Heb 5:3

In one you have Christ who died an rent the veil from the top down, Mark 15:38, in the other you have a religion that sewed the veil back up.

In one you have "one sacrifice for all sins" Heb 10:10. In the other you have a daily offering that can never take away sins. Heb 10:11

You should read Hebrews again and again until you see that Christ is better and exclusive of Judaism. There is nothing for a Christian in Judaism. God wants us to worhip in spirit and truth. You don't need the old law that you are dead to if you are saved.
Christianity was birthed out of Judaism. In Judaism we have the new covenant. It was for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
 

CherubRam

New member
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the (end / fulfillment) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Fulfillment is the correct translation for Romans 10:4.
 

Jacob

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Banned
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the (end / fulfillment) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Fulfillment is the correct translation for Romans 10:4.
Is it a law for righteousness that is being spoken of here?

Is the law for righteousness?

Is it the end of the law, for righteousness? Is it the end, of the law for righteousness?

It says to everyone that believeth.

Righteousness in Christ cannot be obtained by the law. Christ observed the law. We can observe the law. But our righteousness does not come from the law if we are in Christ.

Is it a different righteousness, the righteousness of Christ? Righteousness is important. We should all live righteous lives. Living according to the law is living righteously. But when you meet Christ (when you are saved by Him having come to know Him and what He has done for you) your righteousness is in Him as a righteousness according to the law is not going to merit salvation, because of sin.
 

CherubRam

New member
Is it a law for righteousness that is being spoken of here?

Is the law for righteousness?

Is it the end of the law, for righteousness? Is it the end, of the law for righteousness?

It says to everyone that believeth.

Righteousness in Christ cannot be obtained by the law. Christ observed the law. We can observe the law. But our righteousness does not come from the law if we are in Christ.

Is it a different righteousness, the righteousness of Christ? Righteousness is important. We should all live righteous lives. Living according to the law is living righteously. But when you meet Christ (when you are saved by Him having come to know Him and what He has done for you) your righteousness is in Him as a righteousness according to the law is not going to merit salvation, because of sin.

Matthew 5:17-19.
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of (the / these) commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches (the / these) commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the (enmity / hostility), even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
 

CherubRam

New member
The Gentile converts did not have the written law, but they were keeping it by their actions.


Romans 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned

Matthew 5:17-19.
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of (the / these) commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches (the / these) commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Neither the Law nor the Prophets have been abolished.
Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the (enmity / hostility), even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
The enmity has been abolished.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
The Gentile converts did not have the written law, but they were keeping it by their actions.


Romans 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

When Gentiles do the things contained in the law, these are a law unto themselves.
 

Epoisses

New member
Christianity was birthed out of Judaism. In Judaism we have the new covenant. It was for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

So how many Jews partake in the Lord's supper? That is the sign of being under the new covenant.
 

Jacob

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Banned
So how many Jews partake in the Lord's supper? That is the sign of being under the new covenant.
What are you defining as the Lord's supper? Are you familiar with breaking bread in fellowship, as well as with Passover?
 
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