Your opinion on God’s Law.

[RevTestament]

Ok sorry. Refer to Revelation 5:6
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

What I am saying is that Abraham is just one of those seven eyes - he is not the only one who brought a covenant of God to the earth. That was the job of these seven spirits, and they did so one at time through Jesus who opened the seven seals. The first was through Adam. Do you remember that in Gen 3:22 YHWH Elohim said Adam and Eve had become as one of "us?" This strongly infers, and I say essentially proves that Jesus was one of the JHWH speaking to Adam, and was an entity who gave Adam the covenant of the Sabbath. You can also see that God made a covenant with Noah about 1000 years later in the next seal. Then with Abraham about 1000 years later in the next seal, and then with David about 1000 years later in the next seal, etc.

 

[RevTestament]

The ministry of Jesus is greater than that of Moses, but it does not do away with Moses.

Right, He came to fulfill the law He had given Moses - not to destroy it. In fact the Mosaic law is still being fulfilled if you read it closely. But Jesus did do away with the outward law. This is what Paul tries to teach over and over. Jesus showed the true import of the law - that it is inward, and we are judged even on our intent, which is why someone who purposefully intends on taking someone's life thinking they can rely on the grace of Christ may not be forgiven.

 

[Jacob]

Right, He came to fulfill the law He had given Moses - not to destroy it. In fact the Mosaic law is still being fulfilled if you read it closely. But Jesus did do away with the outward law. This is what Paul tries to teach over and over. Jesus showed the true import of the law - that it is inward, and we are judged even on our intent, which is why someone who purposefully intends on taking someone's life thinking they can rely on the grace of Christ may not be forgiven.

I believe you are mistaken if you think the law is only inward.

 

[Jacob]

Ok sorry. Refer to Revelation 5:6
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

What I am saying is that Abraham is just one of those seven eyes - he is not the only one who brought a covenant of God to the earth. That was the job of these seven spirits, and they did so one at time through Jesus who opened the seven seals. The first was through Adam. Do you remember that in Gen 3:22 YHWH Elohim said Adam and Eve had become as one of "us?" This strongly infers, and I say essentially proves that Jesus was one of the JHWH speaking to Adam, and was an entity who gave Adam the covenant of the Sabbath. You can also see that God made a covenant with Noah about 1000 years later in the next seal. Then with Abraham about 1000 years later in the next seal, and then with David about 1000 years later in the next seal, etc.

I believe you are mistaken.

 

[RevTestament]

I believe you are mistaken if you think the law is only inward.

Romans 7:22
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
2 Corinthians 4:16
16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
Proverbs 20:27
27 The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
Hebrews 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Jeremiah 31:33
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[RevTestament]

I believe you are mistaken.

I would appreciate a little more candor than that. How am I mistaken? About what/who the 7 spirits of God are? Or about the time of the 7 seals? about each of the 1000 year periods having a covenant revealed?
Of course you are free to disagree with me, but your answer doesn't provide much for discourse...

 

[Jacob]

Romans 7:22
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
2 Corinthians 4:16
16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
Proverbs 20:27
27 The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
Hebrews 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Jeremiah 31:33
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I don't think I can explain to you where you are confused about this, but these verses do not negate what I have said.

 

[Jacob]

I would appreciate a little more candor than that. How am I mistaken? About what/who the 7 spirits of God are? Or about the time of the 7 seals? about each of the 1000 year periods having a covenant revealed?
Of course you are free to disagree with me, but your answer doesn't provide much for discourse...

I cannot approve of what you are saying, not knowing it to be true. I have read the Bible, and I didn't come to the conclusions you have come to or which you are trying to explain from your view. I suggest you go back to the Bible and find your answers there. So as not to go beyond what scripture says.

 

[RevTestament]

I don't know what you are saying here, and I'm not commenting on its accuracy. It is important in matters of truth to get our facts right. I only want to say that by Jewish I am speaking of the nation of Israel. Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob whose name was changed to Israel which is where we get the nation of Israel. Do you remember Jeremiah's prophecy about the coming of the new covenant?

I understand what you are saying here, but I tend to speak very precisely. Judah and his descendants(Jews) were not the only ones with whom God made that covenant nor other covenants. Anyone could enter that covenant, and the Israelites did. In fact God expected everyone in Abraham's household to enter the covenant.

 

[Jacob]

What I get out of that is that when the Gentiles love one another, and love God, they are following the law. In fact that is what all the law boils down to - how do I love my neighbor? On this hangs all the law and the prophets. So, I agree with you that we are to keep that law, but we do it imperfectly. Christ did away with the rote Mosaic law of feasts and animal sacrifices. In following Him is the law fulfilled. Christians do not need to keep those laws and ordinances anymore because the punishments are done away in Christ, and we are now to forgive - which is a harder thing to do than to seek justice. Jesus' law is internal and deals with our intent. The Mosaic law was external and showed the way of things to come, so while it is still being fulfilled, the outward ordinances are done away, and are not to be followed anymore. Do we agree on this much?

Again, I see nothing wrong with observing the Law of Moses, and in many ways I do.

When Gentiles love their neighbor the way God wants them to, they are in effect observing God's law without even knowing what it is. Many Gentiles know what God's Law says.

 

[Jacob]

I understand what you are saying here, but I tend to speak very precisely. Judah and his descendants(Jews) were not the only ones with whom God made that covenant nor other covenants. Anyone could enter that covenant, and the Israelites did. In fact God expected everyone in Abraham's household to enter the covenant.

The covenant we call the old covenant was made with the nation of Israel in their exodus from Egypt.

 

[RevTestament]

I don't think I can explain to you where you are confused about this, but these verses do not negate what I have said.

What makes a man/woman "clean" is not the outward law my friend. Jesus spent much effort in trying to teach this. What makes us "clean" is the inward spirit which reflects our intent, etc. In other words the purpose of the Mosaic law was to show what was supposed to be inside the worshiper - not that if you perform this act/work you will be saved. That is why He called the Pharisees hypocrites because they performed the acts for the wrong reasons. That is why He tried to teach that The Father is a spirit, so that the people would learn to worship them with their spirit - not through rote acts. He was not saying that the Spirit of the Father does not inhabit a physical form. He was always trying to teach the importance of the inner law - that it was ok to save someone and perform a work/miracle on the Sabbath, etc. Being stuck on the outer law gets you nowhere with God my friend. Indeed, Christ did away with it. I don't take the sacrament because it is a necessary ritual, but because it is a reminder of Him and my covenants with Him.

 

[Jacob]

What makes a man/woman "clean" is not the outward law my friend. Jesus spent much effort in trying to teach this. What makes us "clean" is the inward spirit which reflects our intent, etc. In other words the purpose of the Mosaic law was to show what was supposed to be inside the worshiper - not that if you perform this act/work you will be saved. That is why He called the Pharisees hypocrites because they performed the acts for the wrong reasons. That is why He tried to teach that The Father is a spirit, so that the people would learn to worship them with their spirit - not through rote acts. He was not saying that the Spirit of the Father does not inhabit a physical form. He was always trying to teach the importance of the inner law - that it was ok to save someone and perform a work/miracle on the Sabbath, etc. Being stuck on the outer law gets you nowhere with God my friend. Indeed, Christ did away with it. I don't take the sacrament because it is a necessary ritual, but because it is a reminder of Him and my covenants with Him.

I don't have a concept of an outward law. The law is the law. Don't do away with it. Jesus didn't.

 

[RevTestament]

The covenant we call the old covenant was made with the nation of Israel in their exodus from Egypt.

No, that is incorrect. That was simply the fulfilling of the covenant with Abraham which was 400 years before the law given to Moses. The law was given because men were not living the covenant well.
Galatians 3:17
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Galatians 3:19
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 

[RevTestament]

I don't have a concept of an outward law. The law is the law. Don't do away with it. Jesus didn't.

Yes, he did. Do you sacrifice heifers or turtle doves? Do you stone adulterers?

 

[Jacob]

No, that is incorrect. That was simply the fulfilling of the covenant with Abraham which was 400 years before the law given to Moses. The law was given because men were not living the covenant well.
Galatians 3:17
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

It is not incorrect. Moses led Israel out of Egypt. It is then that the Law was given.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, he did. Do you sacrifice heifers or turtle doves?

No. If we are to do so again it can only be with the temple, and the second temple was destroyed as well as the first.

Do you stone adulterers?

No, I don't. I don't stone anyone.

Romans 6:23 NASB.

Are you asking about the death penalty for adulterers?

I do not know Jesus' position on it.

 

[RevTestament]

I cannot approve of what you are saying, not knowing it to be true. I have read the Bible, and I didn't come to the conclusions you have come to or which you are trying to explain from your view. I suggest you go back to the Bible and find your answers there. So as not to go beyond what scripture says.

I understand what you are saying here. Unfortunately or fortunately we must all interpret the Bible to try to follow it, and I am referring to my interpretation. The symbolism used in the Bible simply must be interpreted to be understood. Fortunately, tells us what a lot of His symbolism means either directly or indirectly. Horns refer to ruling offices. That is verifiable from Daniel. Thus the horns of the lamb are the same spirits as the eyes. They are wise spirits who Jesus ordained to open the seals for Him.

 

[Jacob]

I understand what you are saying here. Unfortunately or fortunately we must all interpret the Bible to try to follow it, and I am referring to my interpretation. The symbolism used in the Bible simply must be interpreted to be understood. Fortunately, tells us what a lot of His symbolism means either directly or indirectly. Horns refer to ruling offices. That is verifiable from Daniel. Thus the horns of the lamb are the same spirits as the eyes. They are wise spirits who Jesus ordained to open the seals for Him.

I don't know anything different on this than that you are making this up.

 

[RevTestament]

It is not incorrect. Moses led Israel out of Egypt. It is then that the Law was given.

Ok, maybe it is just me being precise again. What I am saying is that the law is not the covenant - see those scriptures from Galatians again. What you said was "The covenant we call the old covenant was made with the nation of Israel in their exodus." What I am saying is the Mosaic law was not the covenant. It was given to the people because they were not following the Abrahamic covenant well, and was meant to guide them into the covenant. Laws are commandments not covenants. Covenants are two way promises. The law is one way commandments as a slave would receive from a master.