Your opinion on God’s Law.

Jacob

Jacob

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jamie said:
Then you should know what was in the ark of the covenant. It wasn't the Book of the Law which contained ordinances set aside by Jesus Christ.

You should become a disciple (student) of Jesus Christ and believe what he instructed his disciples to teach.
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I think you are missing something, but I can't put my finger on it.

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jamie

jamie

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Jacob said:
I understand Aaron to have been the High Priest. This is indeed in regard to the Levitical proesthood.

I am not sure what you mean about sending your money, or sending money.
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The Mosaic law requires each man to support the Levitical priesthood, do you?

Even a widow supported the priesthood with her two mites.

Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites, which make a quadrans. So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood.”
(Mark 12:41-44)​

The poor widow obeyed the Law of Moses, how about you? Do you support the Levitical treasury?
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

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jamie said:
The Mosaic law requires each man to support the Levitical priesthood, do you?

Even a widow supported the priesthood with her two mites.

Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites, which make a quadrans. So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood.”
(Mark 12:41-44)​

The poor widow obeyed the Law of Moses, how about you? Do you support the Levitical treasury?
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He doesn't even keep a tiny speck of the law. He's a fraud and deceived.
 
Jacob

Jacob

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jamie said:
I think you are also missing something. It's the New Testament, the one that applies to the NT church of God.
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Of course the church knows the new covenant and we have writings called the New Testament. These are scripture, in addition to the Hebrew Bible.

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Jacob

Jacob

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jamie said:
The Mosaic law requires each man to support the Levitical priesthood, do you?

Even a widow supported the priesthood with her two mites.

Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites, which make a quadrans. So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood.”
(Mark 12:41-44)​

The poor widow obeyed the Law of Moses, how about you? Do you support the Levitical treasury?
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I am not familiar with your frame of reference.
 
Derf

Derf

Well-known member
Jacob said:
Your opinion on God’s Law. Do you believe God’s Law is only for pointing out sin in a person’s life so that they can understand their need for a Savior and be saved by God and Jesus? Or, do you believe God’s Law is also to be obeyed, or is also for our obedience?
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  • God's law for Adam and Eve was fairly simple: Take dominion, multiply, eat fruit and herbs (Gen 1:28-29), tend the garden but don't eat of the wrong tree (Gen 2:15-17). And after the fall: "now you have to grow your own food" (Gen 3:17-19)
  • God's instruction to Cain (Gen 4:7) was fairly simple: Do well and rule over sin (implicit in this is a necessary recognition of what sin is).
  • God's law for Noah (Gen 9:3-7) was a little less simple: Multiply, add meat to your diet but not the blood, and avenge murder.
  • God's law for Abraham (Gen 18:19) wasn't really specified, but God apparently chose him because he would teach his children to obey God's commands, and to act justly and judge rightly, which contains an implicit recognition of what is just and right.
  • God's law for Israel (Ex-Deut) was much more complicated. Someone else already commented that it was to keep the Jews healthy, no doubt to get them to last long enough for the savior to be born, but also to point toward Christ's sacrifice.
  • God's law for the gentile church (Acts 15:28-29) seemed to reiterate the simplicity of Noah's: Don't eat meat sacrificed to idols, or bloody or strangled meat, and don't fornicate. Plus, "do well" again (again with an implicit acknowledgement that they will know what it means to "do well").
  • Jesus said his yoke is easy and his burden is light (Matt 11:28-30), but doesn't suggest there is no yoke or burden. And He condenses the whole of the law into 2 commands: Love God and love your neighbor.(Matt 22:37-40) Then He said that to love Him means to keep His commandments (John 14:15,21)
  • Paul said to imitate him like he imitated Christ (who did everything the Father told him to do), but he listed things that describe people that won't be in the kingdom of God, including both the general term "wicked" along with what "wicked" people do. (1 Cor 6:9-11).
  • David loved God's law. Ps 119 is a love song to the law of God! And David was a man after God's own heart.


So my conclusion is that God wants people in His kingdom who want to do His law--whatever that happens to be. And if you don't want to do what He commands, He doesn't want you there. Logically, that makes sense: If you don't want to do what the king says, why would you ever want to be in that king's kingdom? A kingdom is a place ruled by a king, meaning the king gets to tell people what to do. Why go to a kingdom where you don't like what the ruler says to do?

And if God truly is all wise and loves the creatures He made in His image, then the things He tells them to do are not capricious, but are for their good. When we believe in Him, then we should believe this about Him.

In addition, there are a few things kings do when they find that someone is not obeying them in their kingdom: they either banish them (refuse to let them be in that kingdom) or restrain them (put them in a prison, away from the nice places) or kill them. All of these ideas are used to describe both the state of man after the fall and the kingdom of God:
Gen 2:17 (threat of death)
Gen 3:23 (banishment)
Gen 3:24 (restraining)
Luke 13:27-28 (banishment)
Rev 20:1-3 (restraining)
Rev 20:14-15 ("2nd death" and banishing from kingdom and restraining--they can't leave the lake of fire)
 
Jacob

Jacob

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Derf said:
  • God's law for Adam and Eve was fairly simple: Take dominion, multiply, eat fruit and herbs (Gen 1:28-29), tend the garden but don't eat of the wrong tree (Gen 2:15-17). And after the fall: "now you have to grow your own food" (Gen 3:17-19)
  • God's instruction to Cain (Gen 4:7) was fairly simple: Do well and rule over sin (implicit in this is a necessary recognition of what sin is).
  • God's law for Noah (Gen 9:3-7) was a little less simple: Multiply, add meat to your diet but not the blood, and avenge murder.
  • God's law for Abraham (Gen 18:19) wasn't really specified, but God apparently chose him because he would teach his children to obey God's commands, and to act justly and judge rightly, which contains an implicit recognition of what is just and right.
  • God's law for Israel (Ex-Deut) was much more complicated. Someone else already commented that it was to keep the Jews healthy, no doubt to get them to last long enough for the savior to be born, but also to point toward Christ's sacrifice.
  • God's law for the gentile church (Acts 15:28-29) seemed to reiterate the simplicity of Noah's: Don't eat meat sacrificed to idols, or bloody or strangled meat, and don't fornicate. Plus, "do well" again (again with an implicit acknowledgement that they will know what it means to "do well").
  • Jesus said his yoke is easy and his burden is light (Matt 11:28-30), but doesn't suggest there is no yoke or burden. And He condenses the whole of the law into 2 commands: Love God and love your neighbor.(Matt 22:37-40) Then He said that to love Him means to keep His commandments (John 14:15,21)
  • Paul said to imitate him like he imitated Christ (who did everything the Father told him to do), but he listed things that describe people that won't be in the kingdom of God, including both the general term "wicked" along with what "wicked" people do. (1 Cor 6:9-11).
  • David loved God's law. Ps 119 is a love song to the law of God! And David was a man after God's own heart.


So my conclusion is that God wants people in His kingdom who want to do His law--whatever that happens to be. And if you don't want to do what He commands, He doesn't want you there. Logically, that makes sense: If you don't want to do what the king says, why would you ever want to be in that king's kingdom? A kingdom is a place ruled by a king, meaning the king gets to tell people what to do. Why go to a kingdom where you don't like what the ruler says to do?

And if God truly is all wise and loves the creatures He made in His image, then the things He tells them to do are not capricious, but are for their good. When we believe in Him, then we should believe this about Him.

In addition, there are a few things kings do when they find that someone is not obeying them in their kingdom: they either banish them (refuse to let them be in that kingdom) or restrain them (put them in a prison, away from the nice places) or kill them. All of these ideas are used to describe both the state of man after the fall and the kingdom of God:
Gen 2:17 (threat of death)
Gen 3:23 (banishment)
Gen 3:24 (restraining)
Luke 13:27-28 (banishment)
Rev 20:1-3 (restraining)
Rev 20:14-15 ("2nd death" and banishing from kingdom and restraining--they can't leave the lake of fire)
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Can we say that we are not to take matters in our own hands? I believe we can.

As for God's commands, they are good. It is not a matter of if we think they are that then we would obey them. We can obey them because they are good, but God's commands are only good.
 
A

Aletheiophile

New member
IMJerusha said:
It makes sense to me. I don't see how unadulterated Christ can lead anyone to their destruction.



Well, when one states that Paul's words are "unadulterated Christ," that's quite an elevation. That being said, all Scripture is God-breathed. In terms of salvation however, I would remind all that Yeshua stated "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That's through Him, not through a particular doctrinal understanding or a particular brother's inspired writings.

And yes, I agree that bone picking has nothing to do with the OP and previous discussion.
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Fair enough. We can agree to disagree at this point.
 
A

Aletheiophile

New member
meshak said:
You see, you are using Paul's teachings to make simple Jesus' word complicated. That's a grave sin, dear.
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Is not the Old Testament "complicated"? Is not God's ways higher than ours?

This discussion is moot if you do not assent to the accepted tradition of the Christian faith.

Proverbs 1:20-23 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets: She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying, How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
 
A

Aletheiophile

New member
Jacob said:
Yes, Torah is God's instruction.
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Yet you still don't get it. It's not point by point instruction and codification. It is an outflow of His character and righteousness. It's actually a form of the word "Yarah," meaning "to flow." How can flow be limited to a list of commands? Because it can't. It's not. That was not the point of Torah.
 
Jacob

Jacob

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Banned
Aletheiophile said:
Yet you still don't get it. It's not point by point instruction and codification. It is an outflow of His character and righteousness. It's actually a form of the word "Yarah," meaning "to flow." How can flow be limited to a list of commands? Because it can't. It's not. That was not the point of Torah.
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It's not about a list of commands. It is about God's commands and God's commands found in Torah. This is not all there is to God's instruction.
 
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