Why don't you explain verse 8 to us, oh great teacher of the cosmic lottery?
Ye must be born again !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Why don't you explain verse 8 to us, oh great teacher of the cosmic lottery?
beloved57
Well-known member
A second communication of Life !
Jn 3:7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Marvel Not ! The word marvel is a word that denotes astonishment, wonderment. Its the word used in Lk 8:25
25And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him.
Its the word admired as in 2 Thess 1:10
10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
What Jesus was saying to Nicodemus is that a man must receive a second life, a second communication of life. He was not telling Nicodemus to do that for himself, for that's impossible, for men cannot communicate to themselves a new birth or a new life, though many delude themselves into thinking they can .
Lets think about birth for a moment, as we see the analogy of it from natural birth. Does Natural Life exist before it's manifestation at Birth ? When a Mother gives birth to a child for the first time, was that the very beginning of that Child's Life ? If any has any sense at all of the bio of a birth, then you know that the actual birth of a baby was not the beginning of its life, but only the manifestation of a conception and a development, that conception being 9 months prior, under normal circumstances. If this be true of natural birth, then I hesitate not that its equally true of a Spiritual Birth, that is, that a life existed [Spiritually Jn 1:4]] before it is brought into manifestation by Birth.
In order to be born, we must first be the offspring of the One giving Birth. To have been given physical birth into this physical world, we had to be the offspring of our Physical Father, His seed, and so likewise to be given Spiritual Birth, we had to be the offspring of a Spiritual Father ! Isa 53:10
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Now I would venture to say that most would agree that this verse is referring to Jesus Christ, and it indicates that He has a seed. The word seed here is the hebrew word zera`and means:
seed, sowing, offspring
a) a sowing
b) seed
c) semen virile
d) offspring, descendants, posterity, children
Jesus has a offspring, Just as a Physical Father has a offspring, so Christ as a Spiritual Father has a offspring, spiritual descendants.
Jesus in the realm of redemption is a Father, even from everlasting, that's what's indicated in Isa 9:6
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
We know this verse is speaking of the Son of God, and all the different titles belong to Him, one of which is the Everlasting Father. This is not designating Him God the Father,But pointing to His being a Father of a spiritual seed given Him. The word Father is the Hebrew word 'ab and means:
of producer, generator (fig.)
A Generator ! Whats that ? it means:
to bring into existence; cause to be; produce.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the generator of His spiritual offspring, He brings them into existence, produces them, cause them to be !
Their[His Offspring or seed] Life was in Him. Jn 1:4
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
What Life ? The Life of His seed, His Offspring.
All of what I am showing here is important to Jesus statement, "Ye must be born again " and exactly what that means. Jesus means, that one must have a second communication of life given them.
Jn 3:7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Marvel Not ! The word marvel is a word that denotes astonishment, wonderment. Its the word used in Lk 8:25
25And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him.
Its the word admired as in 2 Thess 1:10
10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
What Jesus was saying to Nicodemus is that a man must receive a second life, a second communication of life. He was not telling Nicodemus to do that for himself, for that's impossible, for men cannot communicate to themselves a new birth or a new life, though many delude themselves into thinking they can .
Lets think about birth for a moment, as we see the analogy of it from natural birth. Does Natural Life exist before it's manifestation at Birth ? When a Mother gives birth to a child for the first time, was that the very beginning of that Child's Life ? If any has any sense at all of the bio of a birth, then you know that the actual birth of a baby was not the beginning of its life, but only the manifestation of a conception and a development, that conception being 9 months prior, under normal circumstances. If this be true of natural birth, then I hesitate not that its equally true of a Spiritual Birth, that is, that a life existed [Spiritually Jn 1:4]] before it is brought into manifestation by Birth.
In order to be born, we must first be the offspring of the One giving Birth. To have been given physical birth into this physical world, we had to be the offspring of our Physical Father, His seed, and so likewise to be given Spiritual Birth, we had to be the offspring of a Spiritual Father ! Isa 53:10
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Now I would venture to say that most would agree that this verse is referring to Jesus Christ, and it indicates that He has a seed. The word seed here is the hebrew word zera`and means:
seed, sowing, offspring
a) a sowing
b) seed
c) semen virile
d) offspring, descendants, posterity, children
Jesus has a offspring, Just as a Physical Father has a offspring, so Christ as a Spiritual Father has a offspring, spiritual descendants.
Jesus in the realm of redemption is a Father, even from everlasting, that's what's indicated in Isa 9:6
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
We know this verse is speaking of the Son of God, and all the different titles belong to Him, one of which is the Everlasting Father. This is not designating Him God the Father,But pointing to His being a Father of a spiritual seed given Him. The word Father is the Hebrew word 'ab and means:
of producer, generator (fig.)
A Generator ! Whats that ? it means:
to bring into existence; cause to be; produce.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the generator of His spiritual offspring, He brings them into existence, produces them, cause them to be !
Their[His Offspring or seed] Life was in Him. Jn 1:4
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
What Life ? The Life of His seed, His Offspring.
All of what I am showing here is important to Jesus statement, "Ye must be born again " and exactly what that means. Jesus means, that one must have a second communication of life given them.
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beloved57
Well-known member
What is a Birth ?
In continuing to understand what Jesus means by " Ye must be born again " we will be more specific as to what a birth is. The greek word in our text is the word gennaō and means:
of men who fathered children
a) to be born
b) to be begotten
1) of women giving birth to children
2) metaph.
a) to engender, cause to arise, excite
b) in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someone
c) of God making Christ his son
d) of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work
As stated earlier, we must be first the offspring of the One giving birth, mainly the Father.
A birth is a continuing of a Father, a Progenitor , of whom they [the seed] take their image after. Remember Gen 5:3-4
3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
The word for beget and begotten in this passage is the Hebrew word yalad and means :
to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
a) (Qal)
1) to bear, bring forth
a) of child birth
b) of distress (simile)
c) of wicked (behaviour)
2) to beget
b) (Niphal) to be born
c) (Piel)
1) to cause or help to bring forth
2) to assist or tend as a midwife
3) midwife (participle)
d) (Pual) to be born
e) (Hiphil)
1) to beget (a child)
Now how did Seth become Adam's offspring or seed ? Remember Eve said at his birth Gen 4:25
25And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed[Offspring] instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Did Seth become Adam's Offspring by His own will ? Was it His choice to be born of As Adam's seed ? Or was it as Eve stated, that God hath appointed Him their seed or Offspring. We may learn that it's up to God's appointment who belongs to whose offspring and whom they will receive birth.
So its only one way that Seth became the Offspring of Adam, that was by the Sovereign purpose of God.
A birth, a seed, is determined by God, not the freewill of men. Its the continuation of a man's image and likeness.
In continuing to understand what Jesus means by " Ye must be born again " we will be more specific as to what a birth is. The greek word in our text is the word gennaō and means:
of men who fathered children
a) to be born
b) to be begotten
1) of women giving birth to children
2) metaph.
a) to engender, cause to arise, excite
b) in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someone
c) of God making Christ his son
d) of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work
As stated earlier, we must be first the offspring of the One giving birth, mainly the Father.
A birth is a continuing of a Father, a Progenitor , of whom they [the seed] take their image after. Remember Gen 5:3-4
3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
The word for beget and begotten in this passage is the Hebrew word yalad and means :
to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
a) (Qal)
1) to bear, bring forth
a) of child birth
b) of distress (simile)
c) of wicked (behaviour)
2) to beget
b) (Niphal) to be born
c) (Piel)
1) to cause or help to bring forth
2) to assist or tend as a midwife
3) midwife (participle)
d) (Pual) to be born
e) (Hiphil)
1) to beget (a child)
Now how did Seth become Adam's offspring or seed ? Remember Eve said at his birth Gen 4:25
25And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed[Offspring] instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Did Seth become Adam's Offspring by His own will ? Was it His choice to be born of As Adam's seed ? Or was it as Eve stated, that God hath appointed Him their seed or Offspring. We may learn that it's up to God's appointment who belongs to whose offspring and whom they will receive birth.
So its only one way that Seth became the Offspring of Adam, that was by the Sovereign purpose of God.
A birth, a seed, is determined by God, not the freewill of men. Its the continuation of a man's image and likeness.
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beloved57
Well-known member
Jn 12:24
A birth is a continuing of a Father, a Progenitor , of whom they [the seed] take their image after. Remember Gen 5:3-4
3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
The word for beget and begotten in this passage is the Hebrew word yalad and means :
to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
Remember Jesus words In John 12:24
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Jesus here is actually telling us how one is born again, why one is born again. No doubt the Lord Himself is the Corn of Wheat that is about to fall into the ground and die, and if He dies, the resultant effect is that it will bring forth much fruit.
The word bringeth forth is the greek word phero and means:
To produce
The word fruit is the greek word karpos and means:
the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity
Jesus is saying, that if He did not die, He would abide alone as a corn of wheat, but if He dies, This would produce more wheat liken unto Himself, for the law of reproduction is for the seed to bring fort after it's own kind. Lets look at this law put into motion in Gen 1:11-12
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Notice, whose seed was in itself !
Jesus is saying, that as a Corn of Wheat, He has a seed in Himself, and if He dies, this seed of His will be reproduced, it will be brought forth , He will be reproduced. Now how does this reproducing take place ?
Its by being Born Again, receiving a New Birth, His death, His dying, falling into the ground and dying, produces this New Birth, His Spiritual Offspring, His much Fruit.
This is why Peter says in 1 Pet 1:23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Jesus Christ is that incorruptible seed [Corn of wheat] of which we are born again. How do we know this ? Because His resurrection from the dead showed that He was incorruptible !
Ps 16:10; Acts 2:27;13:35
And it is by this resurrection of the incorruptible Seed [Corn of wheat] that we [True Believers, Elect] are born again 1 Pet 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
From the dead ! Remember Jesus said if the Corn of wheat falls into the ground and what ? And dies , be dead. But if it dies , it brings forth much fruit, this Jesus said knowing that He would be raised from the dead. Matt 16:21
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Matt 17:9
And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
So Jesus knew in Jn 12:24 that He would be risen from the dead as that Corn of wheat that died !
A birth is a continuing of a Father, a Progenitor , of whom they [the seed] take their image after. Remember Gen 5:3-4
3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
The word for beget and begotten in this passage is the Hebrew word yalad and means :
to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
Remember Jesus words In John 12:24
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Jesus here is actually telling us how one is born again, why one is born again. No doubt the Lord Himself is the Corn of Wheat that is about to fall into the ground and die, and if He dies, the resultant effect is that it will bring forth much fruit.
The word bringeth forth is the greek word phero and means:
To produce
The word fruit is the greek word karpos and means:
the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity
Jesus is saying, that if He did not die, He would abide alone as a corn of wheat, but if He dies, This would produce more wheat liken unto Himself, for the law of reproduction is for the seed to bring fort after it's own kind. Lets look at this law put into motion in Gen 1:11-12
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Notice, whose seed was in itself !
Jesus is saying, that as a Corn of Wheat, He has a seed in Himself, and if He dies, this seed of His will be reproduced, it will be brought forth , He will be reproduced. Now how does this reproducing take place ?
Its by being Born Again, receiving a New Birth, His death, His dying, falling into the ground and dying, produces this New Birth, His Spiritual Offspring, His much Fruit.
This is why Peter says in 1 Pet 1:23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Jesus Christ is that incorruptible seed [Corn of wheat] of which we are born again. How do we know this ? Because His resurrection from the dead showed that He was incorruptible !
Ps 16:10; Acts 2:27;13:35
And it is by this resurrection of the incorruptible Seed [Corn of wheat] that we [True Believers, Elect] are born again 1 Pet 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
From the dead ! Remember Jesus said if the Corn of wheat falls into the ground and what ? And dies , be dead. But if it dies , it brings forth much fruit, this Jesus said knowing that He would be raised from the dead. Matt 16:21
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Matt 17:9
And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
So Jesus knew in Jn 12:24 that He would be risen from the dead as that Corn of wheat that died !
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beloved57
Well-known member
Being born of incorruptible seed !
1 Pet 1:23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Jesus said to Nicodemus these words Jn 3:7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he must be born again of [out of] incorruptible seed !
Notice the phrase " but of incorruptible" speaking of seed ! As by Nature all men are born of [out of] corruptible seed.
The word of is the greek word ek a preposition denoting:
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative
out of, from, by, away from
So ones birth must originate out of an source or cause.
In this case the source must be an incorruptible seed. The word of God, which is Christ, The Logos of God Jn 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Rev 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
The Incarnate Word Jn 1:14 had a seed in Him, that is Life Jn 1:4
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
This is seed Life and so it is incorruptible seed life.
This Life was in Him , Just as seed life was in Adam which however was corruptible life.
So in the same way one was born of corruptible seed of Adam, so likewise one must be born of incorruptible seed, The Word of God, to partake of Spiritual Life.
But one must have had life already in Adam to have been born out of him, and so likewise, one must have life already in The Logos to be born out of Him.
We know that Life was in Him before the incarnation by Jn 1:4
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
The word life is singular and the word men is plural, denoting it was one life for many, a seed Life, a Generation who had life in Him.
1 Pet 1:23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Jesus said to Nicodemus these words Jn 3:7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he must be born again of [out of] incorruptible seed !
Notice the phrase " but of incorruptible" speaking of seed ! As by Nature all men are born of [out of] corruptible seed.
The word of is the greek word ek a preposition denoting:
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative
out of, from, by, away from
So ones birth must originate out of an source or cause.
In this case the source must be an incorruptible seed. The word of God, which is Christ, The Logos of God Jn 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Rev 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
The Incarnate Word Jn 1:14 had a seed in Him, that is Life Jn 1:4
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
This is seed Life and so it is incorruptible seed life.
This Life was in Him , Just as seed life was in Adam which however was corruptible life.
So in the same way one was born of corruptible seed of Adam, so likewise one must be born of incorruptible seed, The Word of God, to partake of Spiritual Life.
But one must have had life already in Adam to have been born out of him, and so likewise, one must have life already in The Logos to be born out of Him.
We know that Life was in Him before the incarnation by Jn 1:4
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
The word life is singular and the word men is plural, denoting it was one life for many, a seed Life, a Generation who had life in Him.
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beloved57
Well-known member
Must have preexisted in Christ to be born again
1 Pet 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Being born again not of corruptible seed [adam] but of incorruptible seed, the word of God [Christ the Logos Jn 1:1,4,14].
Now understand, in order to have been born of adam of corruptible seed, our very existence in the flesh proves or is evidence that God gave us natural physical life in the earthly adam. This means adam was our natural father or progenitor. Now we did not will our way into adam, ask to be in adam, but this was determined by God. God also determined who, when and where our physical life would be manifested by child birth Acts 17:26
26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Ecclesiastes 3:1-2
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
The key here is understanding that in order to have been born physically, God must have purposed and chose in adam, and gave us physical life in him even before it was developed and manifested. Yes, God chose us in adam.
Now, in order to be born of incorruptible seed into a spiritual life, one must have been in Christ the Spiritual Father or Progenitor, we must have been given to Him for His Spiritual Offspring, in other words, we must have been chosen in Him as part of His seed. If one is truly born again, it demonstrates that we were Chosen in Him and God gave us Spiritual Life in Him before the world began. Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9.
So when Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again, in essence Jesus was telling him that he must be one of the chosen ones in Him before the world began. To be born of incorruptible seed, which is Christ, the Logos of God.
1 Pet 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Being born again not of corruptible seed [adam] but of incorruptible seed, the word of God [Christ the Logos Jn 1:1,4,14].
Now understand, in order to have been born of adam of corruptible seed, our very existence in the flesh proves or is evidence that God gave us natural physical life in the earthly adam. This means adam was our natural father or progenitor. Now we did not will our way into adam, ask to be in adam, but this was determined by God. God also determined who, when and where our physical life would be manifested by child birth Acts 17:26
26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Ecclesiastes 3:1-2
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
The key here is understanding that in order to have been born physically, God must have purposed and chose in adam, and gave us physical life in him even before it was developed and manifested. Yes, God chose us in adam.
Now, in order to be born of incorruptible seed into a spiritual life, one must have been in Christ the Spiritual Father or Progenitor, we must have been given to Him for His Spiritual Offspring, in other words, we must have been chosen in Him as part of His seed. If one is truly born again, it demonstrates that we were Chosen in Him and God gave us Spiritual Life in Him before the world began. Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9.
So when Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again, in essence Jesus was telling him that he must be one of the chosen ones in Him before the world began. To be born of incorruptible seed, which is Christ, the Logos of God.
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beloved57
Well-known member
A Birth
A Birth is not the Creation or origination of Life, but the manifestation of life and is termed procreation. The natural man that a believer has [ as by nature children of wrath] is also called the old man Eph 4:22; Col 3:9, for this was created in Adam, but procreation by natural generation. That New Man Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Also see New Creature 2 Cor 5:17
Immortal Life in a Believer [Eternal or Everlasting Life], or the inward man as Rom 7:22; 2 Cor 4:16, This Life was given us in Christ Jesus before the World began, and is made manifest by Spiritual Generation when Born of God, and presented with the Gospel, for the Gospel brings this immortal life to light or manifestation 2 Tim 1:9-10
Thats why Jesus says, those believing on Him during His Public Ministry, were having Eternal Life Jn 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Those believing on Him were born of Incorruptible Seed !
A Birth is not the Creation or origination of Life, but the manifestation of life and is termed procreation. The natural man that a believer has [ as by nature children of wrath] is also called the old man Eph 4:22; Col 3:9, for this was created in Adam, but procreation by natural generation. That New Man Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Also see New Creature 2 Cor 5:17
Immortal Life in a Believer [Eternal or Everlasting Life], or the inward man as Rom 7:22; 2 Cor 4:16, This Life was given us in Christ Jesus before the World began, and is made manifest by Spiritual Generation when Born of God, and presented with the Gospel, for the Gospel brings this immortal life to light or manifestation 2 Tim 1:9-10
Thats why Jesus says, those believing on Him during His Public Ministry, were having Eternal Life Jn 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Those believing on Him were born of Incorruptible Seed !
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beloved57
Well-known member
1 Pet 1:23
1 Pet 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
When Peter writes of being born again of incorruptible seed, there is no reason why it is not the seed we read of in Isa 53:10
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
This is the seed of the Suffering Servant, which is the word of God made flesh John 1:1,14
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Also see Rev 19:13
For Peter goes on to write, being born again, of that incorruptible seed, by the word of God !
The Logos of God. Yes the Logos of God, was given a Seed Isa 53:10
And as He it was and is incorruptible. In order to enter the Kingdom of God, one must be born of this incorruptible seed,
The only way to be born of this incorruptible seed, we would have to be in that seed, and that's done solely by God's Sovereign and Eternal Purpose.
1 Pet 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
When Peter writes of being born again of incorruptible seed, there is no reason why it is not the seed we read of in Isa 53:10
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
This is the seed of the Suffering Servant, which is the word of God made flesh John 1:1,14
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Also see Rev 19:13
For Peter goes on to write, being born again, of that incorruptible seed, by the word of God !
The Logos of God. Yes the Logos of God, was given a Seed Isa 53:10
And as He it was and is incorruptible. In order to enter the Kingdom of God, one must be born of this incorruptible seed,
The only way to be born of this incorruptible seed, we would have to be in that seed, and that's done solely by God's Sovereign and Eternal Purpose.
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beloved57
Well-known member
An act of Sovereign Mercy !
Titus 3:5
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
New Birth or Regeneration of any individual is an act of of Mercy, not a offer of mercy. It is stated here that its according to His Mercy that He saved the Elect, by New Birth. Its also stated that God will have mercy on whom He will have Mercy, mans will or effort does not dictate whom God has Mercy upon Rom 9:13-16
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
So New Birth or Being born again is governed by that same principle, we did not determine our first birth either, it also was determined by God's Sovereignty. It is insane thinking for one to teach and believe they receive a New Birth or are born again or regenerated because of an act they do , like believe ! For New Birth or Regeneration in scripture is described also in what is a metaphor and that is a Creation! Scripture says Isa 43:7
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. cp Acts 15:7
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
The word for created in Isa 43:7 is the Hebrew word bara' and means:
to create, shape, form
a) (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)
1) of heaven and earth
2) of individual man
3) of new conditions and circumstances
4) of transformations
b) (Niphal) to be created
1) of heaven and earth
2) of birth
3) of something new
4) of miracles
Now notice of the varied meanings of the word that one of them is of birth !
So its not unscriptural to classify a New Birth as a New Creation. Paul writes in Eph 4:24
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
And so we have depraved and sinful men claiming to become a New Man by an act of their freewill, they assisted or cooperated with God in His Creation..
Now I can understand why the Man of Sin sits in the Temple of God saying that he is God, because he shares in a prerogative that Only God should have, and that is to be the Creator. In Isa it is said of God, that all whom are called by His Name, that is to be a Christian, that He Created for His Glory. Those who teach they are Born again because of a decision they made, an exercises of their choice and freewill, call God a Liar and boldly proclaim that they played a part in their being created and so they share the Glory that belongs only to God.. Isa 42:8
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Titus 3:5
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
New Birth or Regeneration of any individual is an act of of Mercy, not a offer of mercy. It is stated here that its according to His Mercy that He saved the Elect, by New Birth. Its also stated that God will have mercy on whom He will have Mercy, mans will or effort does not dictate whom God has Mercy upon Rom 9:13-16
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
So New Birth or Being born again is governed by that same principle, we did not determine our first birth either, it also was determined by God's Sovereignty. It is insane thinking for one to teach and believe they receive a New Birth or are born again or regenerated because of an act they do , like believe ! For New Birth or Regeneration in scripture is described also in what is a metaphor and that is a Creation! Scripture says Isa 43:7
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. cp Acts 15:7
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
The word for created in Isa 43:7 is the Hebrew word bara' and means:
to create, shape, form
a) (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)
1) of heaven and earth
2) of individual man
3) of new conditions and circumstances
4) of transformations
b) (Niphal) to be created
1) of heaven and earth
2) of birth
3) of something new
4) of miracles
Now notice of the varied meanings of the word that one of them is of birth !
So its not unscriptural to classify a New Birth as a New Creation. Paul writes in Eph 4:24
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
And so we have depraved and sinful men claiming to become a New Man by an act of their freewill, they assisted or cooperated with God in His Creation..
Now I can understand why the Man of Sin sits in the Temple of God saying that he is God, because he shares in a prerogative that Only God should have, and that is to be the Creator. In Isa it is said of God, that all whom are called by His Name, that is to be a Christian, that He Created for His Glory. Those who teach they are Born again because of a decision they made, an exercises of their choice and freewill, call God a Liar and boldly proclaim that they played a part in their being created and so they share the Glory that belongs only to God.. Isa 42:8
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
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beloved57
Well-known member
Eph 4:24
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
2 Cor 5:17
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal 6:15
15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
To create is to bring something into existence that had not a being before, So New Birth or Regeneration if answers it figure, must mean something brought into existence; And yet proud man will insist that they contributed to their creation, that they had a choice in the matter ! That is equivalent to saying they had a choice to be formed in the womb Job 31:15
Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb !
God declares, All who are called by His Name [ Christian], He created them for His Glory Isa 43:7
7Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
"Even everyone that is called by my name…
That is called by the name of God, a son or daughter of his; or by the name of Christ, a Christian; whoever belongs to the Lord, whom he calls by his name; and who, being called by his grace, call upon his name, make a profession of his name, and serve and worship him: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, yea, I have
made him;
all which is expressive of the power and grace of God, in the regeneration and conversion of his people; which is a creation, a formation, a making them for himself, for the glory of his grace, and to show forth his praise; and therefore he will gather them in, and bring them into a body together, into a church state, that this end may be answered. " John Gill
The Freewillers and Arminians oppose God in this Truth, by insisting that their wills had part in their being created His People, What utter Blasphemy and Arrogance !
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
2 Cor 5:17
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal 6:15
15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
To create is to bring something into existence that had not a being before, So New Birth or Regeneration if answers it figure, must mean something brought into existence; And yet proud man will insist that they contributed to their creation, that they had a choice in the matter ! That is equivalent to saying they had a choice to be formed in the womb Job 31:15
Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb !
God declares, All who are called by His Name [ Christian], He created them for His Glory Isa 43:7
7Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
"Even everyone that is called by my name…
That is called by the name of God, a son or daughter of his; or by the name of Christ, a Christian; whoever belongs to the Lord, whom he calls by his name; and who, being called by his grace, call upon his name, make a profession of his name, and serve and worship him: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, yea, I have
made him;
all which is expressive of the power and grace of God, in the regeneration and conversion of his people; which is a creation, a formation, a making them for himself, for the glory of his grace, and to show forth his praise; and therefore he will gather them in, and bring them into a body together, into a church state, that this end may be answered. " John Gill
The Freewillers and Arminians oppose God in this Truth, by insisting that their wills had part in their being created His People, What utter Blasphemy and Arrogance !
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beloved57
Well-known member
Be careful man is not and God only He creates !
Contrary to the logical conclusions of those who believe in a freewill salvation, creation or new creation was not accomplished through offers of mercy. If Faith comes before New Birth or Regeneration, and they mean becoming a New Creation, then according to them, man's faith is the cause of becoming a new creature, and since creating work is only a work of God, for only God can Create, then man makes himself God !
Contrary to the logical conclusions of those who believe in a freewill salvation, creation or new creation was not accomplished through offers of mercy. If Faith comes before New Birth or Regeneration, and they mean becoming a New Creation, then according to them, man's faith is the cause of becoming a new creature, and since creating work is only a work of God, for only God can Create, then man makes himself God !
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some other dude
New member
Squeaky can give you directions on how to do it, step by step.
beloved57
Well-known member
More on being born again !
Jn 3:8
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
To be born again is not a command for people to go out and try to make themselves born again, by things they must do, for that is not what Jesus is Talking about. What Jesus is saying is that another you must be born again, a whole New Creation apart from Being born of the Flesh, or natural Childbirth. The you that we are by Nature, is not changed or altered, but an additional you, from another source must be born. You see, we must be born out of an incorruptible seed. The life we [The Elect] were given in Adam was out of an corruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed[Adam], but of incorruptible[Christ], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
However, in order to be born again there must be a Life that we already have in the Incorruptible Seed, which is The Word of God, or the Logos of God, who is Jesus Christ, the Seed Gal 3:16
16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
We must have had a seed substance Life or existence in Christ, as we had in Adam, to be born again of the Spirit. So Jesus in His conversation with Nicodemus was informing him, unless a man has a seminal[Spiritual] existence in the incorruptible seed [Christ], they shall not see or enter the kingdom of God. Folks the Spiritual Birth that John writes of in Jn 3, is in no way related to the flesh, its origin is out of a whole different realm Jn 3:6a
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
And what is really insane today is the false teaching that a Spiritual New Birth is a product of the flesh, the natural mans faith or his freewill or his decision causes it, in total contradiction to Jn 1:12-13
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
They are teaching that the right to become a Child of God was by the will of the flesh, but that right was not because of the will of the flesh or of man, but it was out of the Will of God ! The fact of the matter is this, we had no choice or say so in being born physically out of adam, nor out of Christ, if we belong to Christ !
Jn 3:8
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
To be born again is not a command for people to go out and try to make themselves born again, by things they must do, for that is not what Jesus is Talking about. What Jesus is saying is that another you must be born again, a whole New Creation apart from Being born of the Flesh, or natural Childbirth. The you that we are by Nature, is not changed or altered, but an additional you, from another source must be born. You see, we must be born out of an incorruptible seed. The life we [The Elect] were given in Adam was out of an corruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed[Adam], but of incorruptible[Christ], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
However, in order to be born again there must be a Life that we already have in the Incorruptible Seed, which is The Word of God, or the Logos of God, who is Jesus Christ, the Seed Gal 3:16
16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
We must have had a seed substance Life or existence in Christ, as we had in Adam, to be born again of the Spirit. So Jesus in His conversation with Nicodemus was informing him, unless a man has a seminal[Spiritual] existence in the incorruptible seed [Christ], they shall not see or enter the kingdom of God. Folks the Spiritual Birth that John writes of in Jn 3, is in no way related to the flesh, its origin is out of a whole different realm Jn 3:6a
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
And what is really insane today is the false teaching that a Spiritual New Birth is a product of the flesh, the natural mans faith or his freewill or his decision causes it, in total contradiction to Jn 1:12-13
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
They are teaching that the right to become a Child of God was by the will of the flesh, but that right was not because of the will of the flesh or of man, but it was out of the Will of God ! The fact of the matter is this, we had no choice or say so in being born physically out of adam, nor out of Christ, if we belong to Christ !
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beloved57
Well-known member
Being born of the incorruptible seed, is being born out of Christ, being in or of His Seed. Christ is the Logos of God ! 1 Pet 1:23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Jesus Christ was the Logos made Flesh Jn 1:1,14 and When He died and rose again, He had His Seed in Him. Now everyone belonging to that Seed is Born Again by the Resurrection of the Word of God, Jesus Christ from the Dead. 1 Pet 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Now notice how this is complemented . Being born again by incorruptible Seed, the Word of God.
Being Born Again here is the greek word anagennaō and it means:
to produce again, be born again, born anew
2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God
Now this word is used again in 1 Pet 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
That confirms what 1 Pet 1:23 is saying, Being born out of the incorruptible Seed, who is the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now, one had to be seminally in Christ's Incorruptible Seed Substance to be born out of it, in the same manner they would have had to been seminally in Adam's Seed Substance to be born out of Him !
So New Birth is impossible without having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation [Eph 1:4], because thats when He received His Seed or generation, so believers were a Chosen Generation 1 Pet 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation or Offspring], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
So Eph 1:4 and 1 Pet 2:9 complement one another Those Chosen in Christ before the foundation are the Chosen Generation of 1 Pet 2:9 !
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Jesus Christ was the Logos made Flesh Jn 1:1,14 and When He died and rose again, He had His Seed in Him. Now everyone belonging to that Seed is Born Again by the Resurrection of the Word of God, Jesus Christ from the Dead. 1 Pet 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Now notice how this is complemented . Being born again by incorruptible Seed, the Word of God.
Being Born Again here is the greek word anagennaō and it means:
to produce again, be born again, born anew
2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God
Now this word is used again in 1 Pet 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
That confirms what 1 Pet 1:23 is saying, Being born out of the incorruptible Seed, who is the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now, one had to be seminally in Christ's Incorruptible Seed Substance to be born out of it, in the same manner they would have had to been seminally in Adam's Seed Substance to be born out of Him !
So New Birth is impossible without having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation [Eph 1:4], because thats when He received His Seed or generation, so believers were a Chosen Generation 1 Pet 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation or Offspring], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
So Eph 1:4 and 1 Pet 2:9 complement one another Those Chosen in Christ before the foundation are the Chosen Generation of 1 Pet 2:9 !
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beloved57
Well-known member
If a person is born again by a decision of the will or the flesh, then they are born by the will of the flesh, of which conclusions clearly contradict Jn 1:13
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
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alwight
New member
Some theists here will argue for a body-soul dualism, for another realm beyond the material for the mind, not me of course. Perhaps they might then argue that the soul makes the decision to be born again, not the material body? What would you say to that I wonder?
alwight
New member
:liberals:
beloved57
Well-known member
To be born again means that another you must be born, but this time out of a Incorruptible Seed. The Natural Life of the Elect came out of Corruptible seed, that is of Adam, but now, if we are to be saved, one must be born out of a Incorruptible Seed 1 Pet 1:23. Again, the Life the Elect had in Adam and developed and manifest in time was of a corruptible seed, however to be born again a second time of incorruptible seed, one must have Life already existing in the Incorruptible Seed, as they had Life already existing [in seed substance] in the corruptible seed. The Incorruptible Seed is the Word of God, the Logos, who is Jesus Christ. In order to be born out of the Logos, we must have had a seed substance In Him, a Life existence in Christ, as we did in adam.
So Jesus also in His discourse with nicodemus was informing him, unless a man has a seminal existence in Him, the Living Word, that Incorruptible Seed, they shall not see or enter into the Kingdom of God.
Folks the Spiritual Birth that John writes about in Jn 3 is no way related to the flesh, or any activity of the flesh, its origin is out of whole different realm Jn 3:6a, and what is really insane these days is that the false teaching of a Spiritual Birth is the product of a decision of a man of flesh, the natural mans freewill, in contradiction to Jn 1:13.
The Antichrist followers will always contradict scripture to promote their lies against the Truth, but they shall soon answer to God in the Judgment !
So Jesus also in His discourse with nicodemus was informing him, unless a man has a seminal existence in Him, the Living Word, that Incorruptible Seed, they shall not see or enter into the Kingdom of God.
Folks the Spiritual Birth that John writes about in Jn 3 is no way related to the flesh, or any activity of the flesh, its origin is out of whole different realm Jn 3:6a, and what is really insane these days is that the false teaching of a Spiritual Birth is the product of a decision of a man of flesh, the natural mans freewill, in contradiction to Jn 1:13.
The Antichrist followers will always contradict scripture to promote their lies against the Truth, but they shall soon answer to God in the Judgment !