It's the E.O. church. It was an Eastern thinking religion. The west took it and tried to turn it into aristotlean logic and fit all the mysteries in a box.
Neener neener.
Ye must be born again !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
It's the E.O. church. It was an Eastern thinking religion. The west took it and tried to turn it into aristotlean logic and fit all the mysteries in a box.
Neener neener.
FIrst, I wasn't commenting on the phrase, which btw isn't in the verse you quoted, I was commenting on the concept people consider born again, today. It was remade by a disciple of Wesley's. Study the History of the Church, any book will talk about it. I am sorry I can't remember his name.
The actual words to what you quoted says born from above. Which would be reflected in gal 2;20, it's no longer I who live but HE who lives in me. And thus, show you romans 8:9 and gal 5:16. Do read them in that order, if you read them. Please.
The actual words to what you quoted says born from above. Which would be reflected in gal 2;20, it's no longer I who live but HE who lives in me. And thus, show you romans 8:9 and gal 5:16. Do read them in that order, if you read them.
Please. 
beloved57
Well-known member
Renewing of the Holy Ghost = New Birth
Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
After and following and connected with the Regeneration [The washing by the blood of Christ] comes the renewing of the Holy Ghost, or the New Birth. The New Birth of the individual is based on the washing of regeneration or simply put, Christ Blood, they having been purged [legally] from the guilt of their sins that had been laid upon Christ. Let's look again at this purging Heb 1:3
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our[collectively] sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
This word purged is the greek word katharismos and means:
cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing
a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals
b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth
c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
Notice that it states, its a expiatory sacrifice. What does that mean ? It means to make amends, to atone, so its related to the atonement.
The word atonement is used throughout the OT with that Ideal
Its the word kaphar and it is translated many times as purge:
Isa 6:7
7And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
So here its related to having sin taken away !
Ps 79:9
9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.
So all those whose sins were purged by the blood of Christ, shall be renewed by the Holy Ghost, which is the New Birth. The word renewing is the greek word anakainōsis and means:
a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better, Its from a root word which means to make new. To be changed into a new kind of Life.
You see, because the person has been regenerated, has been forgiven of all legal guilt before God, A New Life which corresponds to their Justification by the blood of Christ, is given them, the New Birth. This New Birth is given to all for whom Christ died and rose again for. Remember Paul said of Him, who was delivered for our offences and raised for our Justification Rom 4:25
All these shall be Born Again, born from above where Christ sitteth on the Right Hand of God !
Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
After and following and connected with the Regeneration [The washing by the blood of Christ] comes the renewing of the Holy Ghost, or the New Birth. The New Birth of the individual is based on the washing of regeneration or simply put, Christ Blood, they having been purged [legally] from the guilt of their sins that had been laid upon Christ. Let's look again at this purging Heb 1:3
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our[collectively] sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
This word purged is the greek word katharismos and means:
cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing
a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals
b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth
c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
Notice that it states, its a expiatory sacrifice. What does that mean ? It means to make amends, to atone, so its related to the atonement.
The word atonement is used throughout the OT with that Ideal
Its the word kaphar and it is translated many times as purge:
Isa 6:7
7And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
So here its related to having sin taken away !
Ps 79:9
9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.
So all those whose sins were purged by the blood of Christ, shall be renewed by the Holy Ghost, which is the New Birth. The word renewing is the greek word anakainōsis and means:
a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better, Its from a root word which means to make new. To be changed into a new kind of Life.
You see, because the person has been regenerated, has been forgiven of all legal guilt before God, A New Life which corresponds to their Justification by the blood of Christ, is given them, the New Birth. This New Birth is given to all for whom Christ died and rose again for. Remember Paul said of Him, who was delivered for our offences and raised for our Justification Rom 4:25
All these shall be Born Again, born from above where Christ sitteth on the Right Hand of God !
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are you born again?
coulter4president
New member
coulter4president
New member
It's the E.O. church. It was an Eastern thinking religion. The west took it and tried to turn it into aristotlean logic and fit all the mysteries in a box.
Neener neener.
not sure i get your drift..
But i know that if someone were to tell me i could go somewhere, even some place i had always been tuaght was "evil".. in order to spend time with Jesus Christ Himself..
i would check it out...
coulter4president
New member
i was born again of water and the Holy Spirit when i was baptized as an infant...
Thank you SO much, Mother and Father...
Thank you SO much, Mother and Father...
coulter4president
New member
infant baptism:
sometimes if you don't get something early,
you never really get it at all.... :nono:
sometimes if you don't get something early,
you never really get it at all.... :nono:
beloved57
Well-known member
More on " Ye must be born again "
More on " Ye must be born again "
In John 3, Jesus was presenting an analogy, the Spiritual Birth with the earthly or natural birth of a person when He made the statement " Ye must be born again " or another time, and this birth must be from above. The flesh cannot be born over again, but within the Old Man a New Man is born, a New Man is Created as Per Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
This word created is the greek word ktizo and means:
to create
of God creating the worlds
to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transform
This is describing the renewing of the Holy Ghost as per Titus 3:5, which the word renewing means:
a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better
So we see in comparing nature and The Spirit, when a natural child is conceived in the mothers womb, there was nothing on the part of the child that could cause it's own generation. It had no ability to command life. It does not choose whom its parents are, neither the time and place of it's birth. Ec 3:1-2
1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
Nor does it choose of its individuality and physical biology. The child is altogether passive as the words to be born again denotes. Its in the passive voice. It receives the nature that the parents pass on to it. It receives this life at inception, and so, the Spiritual Birth, the one being born again or from above had nothing to do with his or her spiritual birth any more than they had to do with their natural birth, they receive that spiritual life from a seed implanted within by the Holy Spirit.
More on " Ye must be born again "
In John 3, Jesus was presenting an analogy, the Spiritual Birth with the earthly or natural birth of a person when He made the statement " Ye must be born again " or another time, and this birth must be from above. The flesh cannot be born over again, but within the Old Man a New Man is born, a New Man is Created as Per Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
This word created is the greek word ktizo and means:
to create
of God creating the worlds
to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transform
This is describing the renewing of the Holy Ghost as per Titus 3:5, which the word renewing means:
a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better
So we see in comparing nature and The Spirit, when a natural child is conceived in the mothers womb, there was nothing on the part of the child that could cause it's own generation. It had no ability to command life. It does not choose whom its parents are, neither the time and place of it's birth. Ec 3:1-2
1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
Nor does it choose of its individuality and physical biology. The child is altogether passive as the words to be born again denotes. Its in the passive voice. It receives the nature that the parents pass on to it. It receives this life at inception, and so, the Spiritual Birth, the one being born again or from above had nothing to do with his or her spiritual birth any more than they had to do with their natural birth, they receive that spiritual life from a seed implanted within by the Holy Spirit.
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beloved57
Well-known member
The New Birth was nothing New !
The New Birth was nothing New !
The New Birth in and of itself was nothing New for the Children of Faith [OT Saints], it was just at that time a nameless reality, and began to be elaborated in the NT. For Abraham saw this Kingdom of God, which one needs to born again to see, and so did the Patriarch David, hence they were born again or from above. Now this will no doubt come as a shocker to those who are being deceived into believing that water baptism plays a part in being born from above. For who water baptized Abraham, Isaac and Jacob or King David ?
The New Birth is not declared as fact in the OT scriptures but it's blessed effects were made evident in the lives of the those Saints, the Patriarchs, and Gentiles i.e Rahab, Ruth and perhaps Job,I say perhaps with Job because some contend he was a jew, but nevertheless, he was born again.
Heb 11:13 reads:
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Speaking of all the preceding Characters of Faith in vs 4-12, it is stated that they died in Faith having seen the promises afar off. The word seen here is the greek word eidō and it is the same word Jesus uses in Jn 3:3
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Thats what they saw or understood, the promises of the Kingdom. James 2:5
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Those that died in faith in Heb 11, Loved God ! They saw by Faith the Kingdom promised them.
All of these therefore had been born from above, born of the water and Spirit. If not, they could not have seen or believed or embraced the Promises or the promised Kingdom.
So the New Birth was not New at all.
The New Birth was nothing New !
The New Birth in and of itself was nothing New for the Children of Faith [OT Saints], it was just at that time a nameless reality, and began to be elaborated in the NT. For Abraham saw this Kingdom of God, which one needs to born again to see, and so did the Patriarch David, hence they were born again or from above. Now this will no doubt come as a shocker to those who are being deceived into believing that water baptism plays a part in being born from above. For who water baptized Abraham, Isaac and Jacob or King David ?
The New Birth is not declared as fact in the OT scriptures but it's blessed effects were made evident in the lives of the those Saints, the Patriarchs, and Gentiles i.e Rahab, Ruth and perhaps Job,I say perhaps with Job because some contend he was a jew, but nevertheless, he was born again.
Heb 11:13 reads:
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Speaking of all the preceding Characters of Faith in vs 4-12, it is stated that they died in Faith having seen the promises afar off. The word seen here is the greek word eidō and it is the same word Jesus uses in Jn 3:3
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Thats what they saw or understood, the promises of the Kingdom. James 2:5
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Those that died in faith in Heb 11, Loved God ! They saw by Faith the Kingdom promised them.
All of these therefore had been born from above, born of the water and Spirit. If not, they could not have seen or believed or embraced the Promises or the promised Kingdom.
So the New Birth was not New at all.
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are you born again?
beloved57
Well-known member
Ye must be born again !
John 3:7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Ye must be born again is a fundamental doctrine of Christ, and is the difference between God Revealed Religion[Christianity] and man made religions.
If we take away the necessity of the New Birth [by false teaching] then Christianity becomes another foul and hateful bird Rev 18:2
2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
The prevailing concept of men in all man made religions is that man has the ability to reform himself, change himself, yes even give himself a new birth, or have a hand in it. Yet scripture says Jer 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
The BBE Translation reads: Is it possible for the skin of the Ethiopian to be changed, or the markings on the leopard? Then it might be possible for you to do good, who have been trained to do evil.
The natural man believes in himself and believes through self effort, religious instruction, and a conducive environment, they can become Christians or acceptable characters before God; This no doubt was King Agrippa reasoning when he replied to paul thusly Acts 26:28
Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
A man must be born again[or from above] to receive Christ [who is from above],His Doctrine, to believe on His Name, thats taught here Jn 1:12-13
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Vs 13 explains or gives reason for vs 12
John 3:7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Ye must be born again is a fundamental doctrine of Christ, and is the difference between God Revealed Religion[Christianity] and man made religions.
If we take away the necessity of the New Birth [by false teaching] then Christianity becomes another foul and hateful bird Rev 18:2
2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
The prevailing concept of men in all man made religions is that man has the ability to reform himself, change himself, yes even give himself a new birth, or have a hand in it. Yet scripture says Jer 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
The BBE Translation reads: Is it possible for the skin of the Ethiopian to be changed, or the markings on the leopard? Then it might be possible for you to do good, who have been trained to do evil.
The natural man believes in himself and believes through self effort, religious instruction, and a conducive environment, they can become Christians or acceptable characters before God; This no doubt was King Agrippa reasoning when he replied to paul thusly Acts 26:28
Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
A man must be born again[or from above] to receive Christ [who is from above],His Doctrine, to believe on His Name, thats taught here Jn 1:12-13
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Vs 13 explains or gives reason for vs 12
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are you born again?
beloved57
Well-known member
This thread is not about me !
do I have to start a thread about you just to find out if you are born again?
beloved57
Well-known member
Thats up to you. But this thread is not about me. And I will not participate in any thread that is. If anything I will report it to the moderators.
coulter4president
New member
Jesus said that if you do not EAT his flesh and drink His blood you have no life in you - St Jn 6
you protestants are in big trouble...
you protestants are in big trouble...
wiseserpent101
New member
Part of the reason why Jesus said you must be born again is because of the Jewish understanding at the time. Many people in Jesus's day were born Jews and lived a cultural lifestyle of the Law. This didn't help the Jews to escape from the lusts of the World nor did it prevent them from becoming the world for Jesus it was all about conversion. Now some Gentiles do convert to Judaism but to be born a Jew and to convert to Judaism would be unthinkable and therefor impractical. So thus converting a Jew to become a Jew would pose a problem. Therefor Jesus brought the command to be Born from above that is to be born from Heaven.
Jesus Christ the Righteous wants us to be born again which gives us a new spiritual understanding. This helps us to break off from the lusts of the world and to stop becoming like the rest of the world. He was speaking in this way to bring them out of the religious thinking that just because we have a unique relationship with God doesn't mean we are born of God. We need to be born of God which is to be born of love.
Jesus Christ the Righteous wants us to be born again which gives us a new spiritual understanding. This helps us to break off from the lusts of the world and to stop becoming like the rest of the world. He was speaking in this way to bring them out of the religious thinking that just because we have a unique relationship with God doesn't mean we are born of God. We need to be born of God which is to be born of love.
beloved57
Well-known member
It is not a command to do !
It is not a command to do !
Jn 3:6-7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Ye must be born again is not Jesus giving a command for people to do. No more would Jesus command a person to be born Spiritually as He would command a person to be born physically, for its just not in mans power to be born.
vs 6
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
When speaking of that which is born, its always in the passive voice, not the active voice.
However though it is not a imperative for one to go do, it is a biological necessity ! When I say biological, I means as in biology, having life. Man cannot give himself life, though its necessary to have in order to perform functions in life.
You see men by nature is only flesh, and corrupt sinful flesh, so says Jesus in vs 6. The flesh can be reformed, cultured and instructed, but it remains sinful flesh. The word flesh is generic as well and scripture uses it to constitute man as a whole, soul and body and spirit; And men by nature [flesh] is dead, dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; See Matt 8:22
Eph 2:1 is a biological condition. This does not mean that man has no living vitality, but its in a sphere that is alienated from the Life of God Eph 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Take plant life for example and Animal life, both have life, however there is a biological difference in their type of lives, Animal Life is of a Higher order than plant life, so it is with the Spiritual that is of the incorruptible seed Christ, and that Natural Life in Adam of corruptible seed. See 1 Pet 1:23.
We by natural birth are alive only in that Life derived from Adam, the sphere of the flesh Rom 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
And we are dead and alienated to the things of God all the while in the flesh. Even when and if we are super religious, and very sincere and serious about it, we are still only functioning in the sphere of the flesh. That is what Jesus was telling a very religious man at the time.
Nicodemus, ye must be born again, or there is no life in you. Jn 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
To eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man is a evidence of life, of spiritual life. To believe on Him, for thats what to eat and drink mean here, we must have already have been given life from the dead. For its a spiritual eating and a spiritual drinking by Faith.
It is not a command to do !
Jn 3:6-7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Ye must be born again is not Jesus giving a command for people to do. No more would Jesus command a person to be born Spiritually as He would command a person to be born physically, for its just not in mans power to be born.
vs 6
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
When speaking of that which is born, its always in the passive voice, not the active voice.
However though it is not a imperative for one to go do, it is a biological necessity ! When I say biological, I means as in biology, having life. Man cannot give himself life, though its necessary to have in order to perform functions in life.
You see men by nature is only flesh, and corrupt sinful flesh, so says Jesus in vs 6. The flesh can be reformed, cultured and instructed, but it remains sinful flesh. The word flesh is generic as well and scripture uses it to constitute man as a whole, soul and body and spirit; And men by nature [flesh] is dead, dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; See Matt 8:22
Eph 2:1 is a biological condition. This does not mean that man has no living vitality, but its in a sphere that is alienated from the Life of God Eph 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Take plant life for example and Animal life, both have life, however there is a biological difference in their type of lives, Animal Life is of a Higher order than plant life, so it is with the Spiritual that is of the incorruptible seed Christ, and that Natural Life in Adam of corruptible seed. See 1 Pet 1:23.
We by natural birth are alive only in that Life derived from Adam, the sphere of the flesh Rom 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
And we are dead and alienated to the things of God all the while in the flesh. Even when and if we are super religious, and very sincere and serious about it, we are still only functioning in the sphere of the flesh. That is what Jesus was telling a very religious man at the time.
Nicodemus, ye must be born again, or there is no life in you. Jn 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
To eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man is a evidence of life, of spiritual life. To believe on Him, for thats what to eat and drink mean here, we must have already have been given life from the dead. For its a spiritual eating and a spiritual drinking by Faith.
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