They do?
Why Your Faith in a Doctrine or a Religion Will NOT Save You
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
They do?
God's Truth
New member
Yeah I have been in debates about it.
God's Truth
New member
I am glad that you believe that Jesus preached to his disciples that he would die and rise again.
jsanford108
New member
The "throne" that Peter is speaking of is the Throne of God, not David's. So yes, justification was spoken of before Paul.
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Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Peter is quoting King David when he spoke as a prophet regarding the irrevocable promise that GOD made to him[David} concerning his[David's] throne.
So... you think GOD reneged on His promise to David and as well to the Lord's mother, Mary?
I never said that, liar. I never said a year. Show me where anybody was preaching DBR before Paul/
None of us have said otherwise.
I expect that you assumed that they said something that they didn't say.
No, I don't admit it at all.
First message in NT writings with justification in relation to Christ's resurrection:
Act 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
Act 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Both by the Apostle Paul.
Rom_4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You've been in debates where you claim people say what they haven't.....simply because you have such poor reading comprehension. Or, like a three year old, you only hear what you want to hear. This is no big secret, GT. Everyone knows it.
PJ settled nothing. Why would you take my word for it? I'm the least knowledgeable MAD on TOL. I just know that Paul received brand new information from the Risen Ascended Christ and he was the first to preach the grace gospel.
My post 142 was about Peter's message on Pentecost.
Peter's message was what you responded to.
We already know Peter's message was in 30 CE.
You said Paul was out preaching to Gentiles.
I said that I'm skeptical.
God's Truth
New member
Not true.
My post to Steko was not a direct quote of what you said.
It was my account of what you said in my own words.
You didn't say which Pentecost, I did.
God's Truth
New member
You are so confusing, I mean mysterious.
God's Truth
New member
Jesus preached the one and only gospel, and that is to believe and obey God.
He preached that sins are forgiven through him.
He preached that he would be crucified and then ALL could come to him to be saved.
He preached to those Jews who were already saved, he preached the new law, and he preached that he would then die for all, and that all would have to follow the guidelines and rules for the new law, THE LAW OF CHRIST.
The law Christ preached while he walked the earth.
He preached that sins are forgiven through him.
He preached that he would be crucified and then ALL could come to him to be saved.
He preached to those Jews who were already saved, he preached the new law, and he preached that he would then die for all, and that all would have to follow the guidelines and rules for the new law, THE LAW OF CHRIST.
The law Christ preached while he walked the earth.
Paul's understanding of scripture was so skewed he persecuted people for their allegiance to Christ.
Jesus had to correct him with correct understanding before he could use him.
Paul did not preach contrary to scripture.
The revelations Paul received were with regard to him correctly understanding scripture because Paul tried to destroy the church.
"For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it." (Galatians 1:13)
Jesus asked Paul not to persecute his people.
jsanford108
New member
False.
You would agree that the Gospels, and the content therein, occurred before Paul's conversion, yes? This would lead logically to the events described, such as the Apostles witnessing the Risen Christ, to have occurred before Paul's experience on the road to Damascus. Therefore, to assert that Paul was preaching the Resurrection before the Apostles, is illogical. The Apostles would have known the justification that went with Christ rising. To imply otherwise would go against the teachings and very Words of Christ.
If you wish to argue about "who wrote it first," Matthew and James have the earliest composed writings (being Matthew's Gospel and James). Paul comes next, with his letter to the Thessalonians. But even then, we have Mark, a disciple of Peter, and John, one of the 12 Apostles, also composing accounts of the Gospel. Would it not stand to reason that Peter, John, Mark, Matthew, and James would not have known the justification doctrine that comes as a byproduct of the Resurrection? To answer no would be to give more weight to the writings of Paul. Such ideas are dangerous, as it leads to a devaluing of the Gospels, as well as the other writings, which are divinely inspired. How would the Holy Spirit, being eternally fair and good, give partial truths to the Apostles, but the full truth to Paul? To say that Paul taught it first is to imply that this is the case.
Thus, logically, in accordance to the attributes of Christ, and the evidence put forth in the Gospels and subsequent Scriptures, we can conclude that the Resurrection was declared, as well as, justification, by the Apostles, before Paul.
Plus the Twelve did not persecute people for believing Jesus was the Christ, the anointed of God.
The majority of Paul's writings were to Gentile congregations, but the Twelve were sent to the lost sheep.
Peter opened the door to Gentile conversion, but Gentiles were not his focus.
Paul was sent to Gentiles, kings, and Israel.
Paul had to explain things to Gentiles that Israel already knew.