Let's go back, the captain of the Titanic was able. There was certainly every indication that the ship was unsinkable, but there was also every indication that if a large iceberg was hit, the ship was going down. As the ship-line owner, I'm responsible, and I knew all this going in.
"Inevitability, Fatalism" these are the words. Does it mean these by necessity? :nono: In some ways, the Open Theist's assertion that God is an able chess-player is not all bad, for the example it gives, the largest difference between them and the rest of us, is that we believe God knows/knew all things. In the end, it is God on trial, with man making assertions, but I definitely, as bright as I may be, am not capable of bringing that charge. The God of the universe has told me that He is Good, that there is no darkness (not even a little bit) in Him. I will not bring this charge, regardless of what it looks like on paper. It, for me, is a trust issue (with a tad bit of what I think is no-brainer logic as well). I'm not 'concerned' with the same thing you are. Why? Because, good/bad, doesn't matter if He is God. He wouldn't even have to say He was good to coax us, if He weren't good--Being all powerful, what chance have I got? You? :nono: None at all, and therefore, imho, it is a fool's errand. It only makes logical sense that God is all good because, being all-powerful, He has no reason to lie. Why? Because you and are powerless regardless.
Er, and I can think of a few scenarios where that wouldn't be a 'bad' thing by any necessity. Again, this is a charge against God based on our incredibly limited view. It has EVERY earmark of a witness who didn't see the whole thing, but then somehow sits as judge.
et. 3:18, " But " Grow in Grace." Just those three words. The verse talks about growing in the knowledge of Christ, many of us understand growing in knowledge, but what is growing in the Grace of Christ? Just how do we do that? Well we don't do it, its done for us by Christ. And its an ongoing growing thing that he does for us all. On the average definition, Grace is undeserved Kindness. This means that Jesus is supplying continual underserved kindness to humanity; explain to yourself how a human can be condemned or lost, with this kind of help from Jesus? And that help from him is growing.
Notice something here with me; will you think with me?
Think on this in 2
This is being supplied because we all need it! As we live and move in our lives, we are growing in Grace from God, because we all keep sinning and failing because we are imperfect beings. Its no way possible ANY of us could qualify for the Kingdom, IF we were not being given this growth of grace. We are being fed a steady supply of forgiveness, because God knows we NEED that; one of the worse things a believer in God could think, is to support doctrines that cut this supply off to any human for any reason!
The Grace of God is not on some time table that runs out on a person during their lives; that's when we NEED grace, ALL of our lives, especially if we are ignorant of God! When sin increases, Grace ALWAYS increases even more to cover the human, because Grace grows MORE than sin! Romans 5:20. With this Holy Math, no sinner can be counted out of salvation.
- I hear what you're saying,....and it would appear as a soul recognizes the primordial reality of love, which is intrinsic to its own existence, the very power and principal upholding the soul, then there comes a point of 'realization' of the divine love, that is always already its true HOME. The reality of 'God' never left, nor could reality ever be absent, but only our recognition of it is shrouded, distorted, convoluted. But when we awaken to reality, love and its will are illumined within us, and it becomes obvious, a tacit recognition, that 'God' is the one and only sole reality, the absolute one, ever-present, and then we become the temple of 'God', and are outshined in that all-radiant Spirit, that all-radiant consciousness, where 'God is all in all'. In that pure radiant fullness, there is no fear, no sin, no lack, no thing but Love itself.
Hi Mickiel,
Yes,....there is the good ole issue of 'free will'
lain:
Well, as long as you're not one of those suffering that sentence I suppose it's real easy to justify it...
Needs a bit of historical perspective to appreciate. The Titanic was thought 'unsinkable' but they also knew not to run it up against an ice berg. But for getting lost in historical details, my analogy was supposed to elicit how far culpability goes. It doesn't go as far as this, even in the real world, so it is odd that it goes this far against God.
You are thinking "democracy" however. I'm fairly certain we are powerless and completely at the mercy of God.
"Wanting to know more." You certainly 'can' be considered a hero in this scenario.
If God were talking to you on a daily basis, I might agree. Because your information is as limited as mine, I disagree.
That's a fair point, BUT when it seems to traverse doctrinal boundaries, that we then all share. On this, we tend to all be in the same boat. Simply 'denying' hell seems like 'denial' rather than good doctrine to me. I have to first be 'biblical.' Either there is something outside of myself that is objective, or we are all subjective and this discussion wouldn't matter anyway. I believe Christ's injection in our History, as well as those scriptures, are God's objective grounding. The wise man built his house upon the rock (objective). The foolish man built his house upon the sand (subjective, relative truth).