Why would God need a hell?

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Prizebeatz1

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I just showed you in Psalm 67 that Judgment comes from God.

If you could demonstrate whatever point you are trying to make, with scripture, then you might have something....but, you would rather avoid scripture because any discussion of it is most certainly is going to expose your ignorance of it...

You're not fooling anybody. You can't tell one lie to cover another lie. Trying to justify a man-made abomination with the same text that created it in the first place does not work. They used to justify slavery in the same way. The same system has you in a headlock too. Wake up and smell the coffee.
 

bsmitts

New member
Well I can give you my understanding of it all. I believe in God, that he created all things that we know of in this physical universe, I do not believe it created itself. But " Before" God had all this created, there was what was there before in his spirit world; we don't know a lot about this spirit world. But I believe that God was alive first and at some point he gave birth to Christ ; he somehow brought Christ out of himself. And Jesus became the first born of God. I think then they created the world of angels and other spirit beings, perhaps millions of them, I don't know.

I think God was so pleased with how Jesus turned out, that made him want more children, and that desire was the beginning of them planning and creating humanity. For several reasons God wanted humanity to first be in the flesh, But God obviously wanted humans to eventually become spirit beings , but only after we experienced things that God , in his wisdom, wanted us to live through. I think sin and evil are two of those things. God had satan created to represent evil, to be the father of sin.

Like a cook preparing a dish, God wanted humanity prepared for his Kingdom, before we actually got there. Like a great potter molding clay, God is using satan, sin and evil, in our preparation for our eternal future; he wants us all to " Know good and evil." This is why satan was created, because evil had never existed before, so it is soley for our experience. For some reason I do not understand completely, it must be an experience God feels that we need.

Listen: You can't just make up things about God, ok? Do you know what doctrine is? Do you know what discernment is? Might wanna check that out.

Who is Jesus?

Jesus Christ, God the Son, is co-eternal with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, yet eternally begotten of the Father. He possesses all of the divine attributes and is coequal and consubstantial with the Father (John 10:30; 14:9). He is God and has always been God and always will be God and was during his physical life also God (God in the flesh). Jesus surrendered none of His deific attributes but merely His prerogative, on occasions of His choosing to exercise some of those attributes (Philippians 2:5-8; Colossians 2:9). Jesus secured redemption by voluntarily offering up his physical life on the cross. His sacrifice was substitutionary, redemptive, and completely sufficient enough to bring about sanctification for them that trust in him alone for salvation. After His crucifixion, Jesus was bodily (not merely spiritually or metaphorically) raised from the dead and thereby proved Himself to be God in human flesh (Matthew 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20-21; Acts 1, 9; 1 Corinthians 15).

What is Salvation?
Salvation is a free gift attained by God’s grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone. Salvation is identified by spiritual fruits, (Galatians 5:22-23) and by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 

Mickiel

New member
Listen: You can't just make up things about God, ok? Do you know what doctrine is? Do you know what discernment is? Might wanna check that out.

Who is Jesus?

.



I am not Christian, so my understanding is not Christian, I do not view biblical things as a Christian would. I do not view Jesus as being God; Jesus is Jesus, God is God, two separate beings. I do not believe in the Christian trinity, I see only one God. Now, what is Jesus now? Is he a God? I am not really sure on that, I don't know what Jesus is, but he is the Son of a God. He is second in command and sits on the right hand of God. I don't know a whole lot about Jesus, I wish I did.
 

bsmitts

New member
I am not Christian, so my understanding is not Christian, I do not view biblical things as a Christian would. I do not view Jesus as being God; Jesus is Jesus, God is God, two separate beings. I do not believe in the Christian trinity, I see only one God. Now, what is Jesus now? Is he a God? I am not really sure on that, I don't know what Jesus is, but he is the Son of a God. He is second in command and sits on the right hand of God. I don't know a whole lot about Jesus, I wish I did.

you say you believe Jesus is the son of God. This information is found in The Bible. Yet, why do not believe the rest of it? Ephesians 1:11-14 Here we are told of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. You say you do not view Jesus as being God. Well... John10:30 Now look at John 10:31 my how people love to throw stones at Jesus (even today). It grieves me.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Your translation is inappropriate, not necessarily legit, arbitrary

Your translation is inappropriate, not necessarily legit, arbitrary

Thanks for confirming my rendering as legit.

Further, the classic Arabic Lexicons already support it, completely independent of any other modern rendering that you tards keep looking for...


My last post here (re-edited) still stands and it does not substantiate your 'translation' as true, since out of the 18 or so translations listed at that one site, the one translation that has the words "mankind, jinns and all that exists" ( by Hilali/Khan) in parenthesis is not part of the original text! but added commentary...and is considered "either incorrect, far-fetched, non-conforming or misleading." That rendering (of added words in parenthesis) is not supported by the majority of accepted translations of the Koran. The word 'jinn' is NOT in the original text.

'Alamin' does not indicate specifically 'jinn', 'demons' or 'satan', but is the plural of 'alam' and its broad application includes all created beings and creation. This is why the proper traditional accepted translation is that Allah is the Lord of the worlds, Cherisher and sustainer of the universe, Lord of all creatures.

Sorry,....your case has little support, since just because The Supreme Creator is Lord of all beings, does not make that Creator a 'satan' or a 'devil', just because he created 'jinn', 'demons', 'devils', and the whole host of sentient beings (good or evil). Such an assumption does not hold.

If you're going to use that reasoning, then Jesus who is supposedly Lord and Creator of all, must be a 'satan' or 'devil',...because he is Lord of over all devils and demons. Such a double-standard demolishes your claim here.
 
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Prizebeatz1

New member
you say you believe Jesus is the son of God. This information is found in The Bible. Yet, why do not believe the rest of it? Ephesians 1:11-14 Here we are told of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. You say you do not view Jesus as being God. Well... John10:30 Now look at John 10:31 my how people love to throw stones at Jesus (even today). It grieves me.

Excuse me. Haven't you heard? The story of Jesus is symbolism for the soul. It's not literal. The Father and the Son are one because the soul is one with God. This is the message of the Gospels but man has interpreted it to mean something else. It's profitable for those in power and it's easy, convenient and more palatable to the masses who don't want to do the necessary inner work to understand and connect with the soul. There's nothing that can replace the source of our infinite self-worth. All substitutes leave a gaping hole which can be felt as the fear of letting go of whatever we are holding onto to avoid feelings of worthlessness. Holding onto a belief is evidence that we feel worthless. For example, we hang on for dear life and won't let go because we think we are nothing without Jesus. It's just the opposite.
 

Apple7

New member
You're not fooling anybody. You can't tell one lie to cover another lie. Trying to justify a man-made abomination with the same text that created it in the first place does not work. They used to justify slavery in the same way. The same system has you in a headlock too. Wake up and smell the coffee.

You just want to hear yourself talk about philosophy.

Scripture is where its at.

Talk to scripture.

Impress us.
 

Apple7

New member
I am not Christian, so my understanding is not Christian, I do not view biblical things as a Christian would. I do not view Jesus as being God; Jesus is Jesus, God is God, two separate beings. I do not believe in the Christian trinity, I see only one God. Now, what is Jesus now? Is he a God? I am not really sure on that, I don't know what Jesus is, but he is the Son of a God. He is second in command and sits on the right hand of God. I don't know a whole lot about Jesus, I wish I did.

You are lost and in need of help.
 

Mickiel

New member
You are lost and in need of help.



Good morning Apple, I certainly need God's help, no doubt about it; I always have needed it , from my youth up. In Matt. 24:4 Jesus advised, " Take heed that no man deceive you", and I have found that the vast majority of that deception that comes from other men, is through religion. The religious biblical views that they learned from tradition. In fact, Jesus said that believers can worship him in vain, Matt. 15:9, and they would teach that useless teaching as commandments from God.

Stunning that actual believers in God can worship Christ, be really worshipping him, meaning they believe in him, but Jesus considers it useless. Vanity. I need help in seeing that uselessness, so that I will not get swept up in it.
 

Apple7

New member
My last post here (re-edited) still stands and it does not substantiate your 'translation' as true, since out of the 18 or so translations listed at that one site, the one translation that has the words "mankind, jinns and all that exists" ( by Hilali/Khan) in parenthesis is not part of the original text! but added commentary...and is considered "either incorrect, far-fetched, non-conforming or misleading." That rendering (of added words in parenthesis) is not supported by the majority of accepted translations of the Koran. The word 'jinn' is NOT in the original text.

Where does your googling show that the classic Arabic Lexicons to be in error?



'Alamin' does not indicate specifically 'jinn', 'demons' or 'satan', but is the plural of 'alam' and its broad application includes all created beings and creation. This is why the proper traditional accepted translation is that Allah is the Lord of the worlds, Cherisher and sustainer of the universe, Lord of all creatures.

When coupled to rabb, what does it mean....?


Sorry,....your case has little support, since just because The Supreme Creator is Lord of all beings, does not make that Creator a 'satan' or a 'devil', just because he created 'jinn', 'demons', 'devils', and the whole host of sentient beings (good or evil). Such an assumption does not hold.

Non sequitur.

You would need to disprove the classic Arabic Lexicons in order to make that assertion.

Besides, you already admitted Arabic ignorance....




If you're going to use that reasoning, then Jesus who is supposedly Lord and Creator of all, must be a 'satan' or 'devil',...because he is Lord of over all devils and demons. Such a double-standard demolishes your claim here.

'Lord of the demons' is used in the Book of Revelations when specifically referring to Satan.

I have demonstrated that the Koranic 'allah' has the same title.

Further, the term 'allah' shares the same exact root word as other pagan Arab idols....such as the great serpent....all, of which, point to the Koranic 'allah' as being Satan.

This is merely the tip of the iceberg.

It is most interesting that you have put aside your yoga lessons so that you can defend The Devil.
 

Apple7

New member
Good morning Apple, I certainly need God's help, no doubt about it; I always have needed it , from my youth up. In Matt. 24:4 Jesus advised, " Take heed that no man deceive you", and I have found that the vast majority of that deception that comes from other men, is through religion. The religious biblical views that they learned from tradition. In fact, Jesus said that believers can worship him in vain, Matt. 15:9, and they would teach that useless teaching as commandments from God.

Why quote Biblical scriptures that you clearly don't understand, and don't believe in, as you admit that you are not even a Christian...?


Stunning that actual believers in God can worship Christ, be really worshipping him, meaning they believe in him, but Jesus considers it useless. Vanity. I need help in seeing that uselessness, so that I will not get swept up in it.

Show us more scripture that you don't believe in...
 

Mickiel

New member
Why quote Biblical scriptures that you clearly don't understand, and don't believe in, as you admit that you are not even a Christian...?

QUOTE]



You, like other Christians, think that Christianity has a lock on belief, and that you must be Christian in order for your belief to be valid. A vain outlook that suggest that Christianity has a monopoly on the truth; which is incredible pride, the kind that comes before a fall. Its as if Christianity has put a stamp on belief in God, and all other belief is considered elementary. This is transparent and I see through it.

You obviously have a zeal for God, I can see that, but its not according to my knowledge, which is why we disagree. But I do not condemn you because of that, I am as sure of your salvation as I am of mine.

I think it of interest that Jesus taught in Matt. 7:22-23, " Many will; say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in thy name cast out demons and done many wonderful works? Then I will say to you that I never knew you." Here we obviously have serious believers in Christ, who preach and teach about him and do MANY wonderful works in his name, and yet Jesus claims to have never known them. Interesting.

Its because they did all that stuff in a traditional vein , they learned about Christ according to the traditions passed down by their church organization. Traditions ripe with paganism and false information. And that is what eternal hell is, simply a false tradition.
 

Apple7

New member
You, like other Christians, think that Christianity has a lock on belief, and that you must be Christian in order for your belief to be valid. A vain outlook that suggest that Christianity has a monopoly on the truth; which is incredible pride, the kind that comes before a fall. Its as if Christianity has put a stamp on belief in God, and all other belief is considered elementary. This is transparent and I see through it.

You obviously have a zeal for God, I can see that, but its not according to my knowledge, which is why we disagree. But I do not condemn you because of that, I am as sure of your salvation as I am of mine.

I think it of interest that Jesus taught in Matt. 7:22-23, " Many will; say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in thy name cast out demons and done many wonderful works? Then I will say to you that I never knew you." Here we obviously have serious believers in Christ, who preach and teach about him and do MANY wonderful works in his name, and yet Jesus claims to have never known them. Interesting.

Its because they did all that stuff in a traditional vein , they learned about Christ according to the traditions passed down by their church organization. Traditions ripe with paganism and false information. And that is what eternal hell is, simply a false tradition.


Answer the question...

Why would you, as a non-Christian, and as a person who does not even believe in scripture, quote Biblical scripture?
 

Mickiel

New member
Answer the question...

Why would you, as a non-Christian, and as a person who does not even believe in scripture, quote Biblical scripture?



You are so judgmental that you cannot even recognize it; it comes out even in how you question me. You claim I do not believe in scripture, a horrible judgment of me that is simply false, I just don't see scripture as you do. Thus you think, " If you don't see it as I do, then you can't see it", in that manner you judge others, comparing yourselves among yourselves. Your stuck on the Christianity thing, the giant pride of it, as if Jesus has no other sheep in different flocks. Sheep who see scripture different than you do.

But some believers have a need to push others down, in that manner they lift themselves up.

I constantly use scripture, in literally every post, and you complain about that. Because you are locked into a tunnel vision of the bible, magnified by your religion, and are taught to crush any other belief. Its the pride in your calling, you make your election sure, by discrediting the election of others. You need to bash, its the strength of your communication. If you do not slander others, your communication is weak in your view, and this has become a habit in how you communicate. If you knock me down, then you can stand straight; now it has become an habitual need for you. And I feel for you, its sad when one has reached that point, I been there before.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Why would God need a place like this traditional eternal hell? Why would he co-exist with such a place in eternity? Does God need a garbage dump for humans? How and when did the grave become the traditional explination of hell?

A God who has an eternal torture chamber is an eternally evil deity.

Hell is a fabrication or device used by quack preachers who don't know the good news of sonship with God. They have nothing better to teach. Their are a lot of sick men with control problems that become preachers!

Those who reject Gods plan and will simply do not have any place to go in Gods creation. They do not awake from the sleep of death. They are destroyed forever. No pain, no recollection, no existence. It becomes as if they never existed, forgotten.

Look at all the terrible things God is accused of in the Old Testiment, then listen to the excuse making by those who believe God wrote those things about himself. It's like people living with an abusive father yet they make excuses for the beatings and inconsistencies, even buying into the blameing by the abusor.

The family eventually grows up and no longer buys into the injustice.

The God revealed in the life of Christ should have put an end to all these human concepts if a national wrathful deity who favors the Jews and a few adopted "gentile dogs."
 
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